We’re not birds! 
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@tztag Pretty sure those houses (at the NW corner of Lindell and Kingshighway & behind it on Westmoreland) are owned by Mike & Steve Roberts, as well as the 5005 lot. I'm not thinking they'd ever want to see Roberts Tower 2 built literally on top of where they live, let alone would get approval of the neighborhood board of trustees (McCloskey, anyone?).
Looking forward to seeing more schematics of this proposal. I get @urban_dilettante 's concerns about the sidewalk frontage, and I agree that it would be great to see it wrapped with the same windows & design as the Kingshighway-facing side is shown having. Right now, I'd like to see a better image of the garage released by the architects and developers; maybe it's better addressed than this thread fears.
Meanwhile, we're too busy looking up when we should be looking down...
I want to see a tunnel under Lindell connecting this tower to the Chase.
Looking forward to seeing more schematics of this proposal. I get @urban_dilettante 's concerns about the sidewalk frontage, and I agree that it would be great to see it wrapped with the same windows & design as the Kingshighway-facing side is shown having. Right now, I'd like to see a better image of the garage released by the architects and developers; maybe it's better addressed than this thread fears.
Meanwhile, we're too busy looking up when we should be looking down...
I want to see a tunnel under Lindell connecting this tower to the Chase.
Bingo. Just look at the Orion and the failure of the side facing Euclid.gone corporate wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Meanwhile, we're too busy looking up when we should be looking down...
Fortunately the proposal doesn't appear to have "a 6-story blank base." Maybe Steve's looking at the wrong rendering.
Parts of that garage technically will be along Lindell and Kingshighway so not necessarily in the ‘back’. Let’s see though as more details emerge.
Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...
A few more observations...
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Can’t decide which is worse. That or the gaping orifices of excretion along a third of the Euclid aspect of Citizen Park. I remember being at the public meeting where ?Opus claimed national retailers needed wide openings to accommodate the turning radius of 18 wheelers that bring in inventory. Thinking back, it’s What? but the neighborhood fell for it . Hopefully we’re wiser now
Thanks for the big pic.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...Albion West End.jpg
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Yeah, this side does not work and needs to be revisited.
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Agree. I know we are seeing such a small portion of it and also it’s not front and center but the little we do see doesn’t look anything like that tower. At least 100 brought similar design aesthetic into their garage. So far this garage looks like it could be a whole different project.dweebe wrote:Thanks for the big pic.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...Albion West End.jpg
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Yeah, this side does not work and needs to be revisited.
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I get that the garage is going to end up as a blank wall facing Lindell (not that I want it to be, but realistically it's what they'll probably go with), but at the very least it could be improved if it were a living/green wall of some sort instead of metal screens or glass panels in front of concrete.
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only if they're allowed to. they're not going to can the entire project if the city demands a better Lindell frontage—especially if tax breaks are being requested.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022I get that the garage is going to end up as a blank wall facing Lindell (not that I want it to be, but realistically it's what they'll probably go with)...
There is a form-based code here. I doubt it allows for a wall of garage screens along Lindell . Can only hope there is a conversation rather than rubber-stamped variances.
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That would be the north side of the building. The absolute worst side for a green/living wall. As somebody that has gotten green roofs and living walls installed I would vouch for an artistic screen in this situation rather than a living one.Laife Fulk wrote:I get that the garage is going to end up as a blank wall facing Lindell (not that I want it to be, but realistically it's what they'll probably go with), but at the very least it could be improved if it were a living/green wall of some sort instead of metal screens or glass panels in front of concrete.
Boom, and there is the HUGE no-no. Fix that with some retail that could have patio or cafe-style seating out front abuting the sidewalk and you have a winner.dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Thanks for the big pic.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...Albion West End.jpg
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Yeah, this side does not work and needs to be revisited.
Also, I agree with the green wall. A north facade just won't support it most of the year because there are no evergreen vines or climbing shrubs that live this far north to justify it.
The climbing hydrangea (petiolaris) though not evergreen, does a great job of screening the north aspect of garage behind maryland plaza - now the edera patio (edera = vine in Italian)
Of course I’d prefer them to work on contiguous sidewalk activation rather than a ‘treatment’ on an eye sore.
Of course I’d prefer them to work on contiguous sidewalk activation rather than a ‘treatment’ on an eye sore.
Looking at the form-based code for high-rise and podium buildings, Albion seems like it will need to have some variances issued...imran wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022There is a form-based code here. I doubt it allows for a wall of garage screens along Lindell . Can only hope there is a conversation rather than rubber-stamped variances.
- Where an alley is present, parking and services shall be accessed from that alley - Albion's garage entrance is on Lindell and utilizes an existing curb cut. Unsure about the Kingshighway side. Previous plans had an entrance-only on that side too.
- Glass (curtain wall): not allowed - This building clearly has a glass curtain wall.
- Metals (all types): not allowed - This building seems to also be clad in some bronze-colored metal.
A variance to facade materials and a parking garage entrance could all likely be had if One Hundred is used as a precedent.
I'll add another observation to this: the building isn't an oval. It's rounded on the east and west facades with the north and south apparently being "two-sided" if that makes sense.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...Albion West End.jpg
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Few thoughts:dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Thanks for the big pic.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...Albion West End.jpg
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Yeah, this side does not work and needs to be revisited.
Overall I like the design, it's not going to be my favorite building in STL, but there's nothing tremendously wrong with it either, and it's adding 30 floors and 300+ units of density to our premier walkable neighborhood on a corner that's been nothing but a weed infested parking lot for as long as I can remember.
This was never going to be a Manhattan level world-class design project. While I'd personally like something with a little more flair sitting right next to 100, this is still a great addition. Not every tower will be a signature piece, but I love that the demand is obviously still there in the area right next door to 100, and I think this signals we'll see more towers of comparable size get proposed in the area.
All that being said there's still improvements that could be made. I'd like more pedestrian activation on the corner, put in a retail/restaurant space and keep the urban fabric going. Sitting right across the street from Forest Park and surrounded by people, it should have more going on on the ground floor.
Cover the parking garage façade with an art installation of some sort, the garage in Clayton (I think Centene owns it?) that has the siding that moves with the wind is a great example of turning a garage into a interesting visual feature.
Again, overall very happy with this project and it's only going to add to the liveliness of our most walkable neighborhood, just a few adjustments and this'll be a fantastic addition.
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Would love to see what this area of the Central West End would look like if this gets built, plus two more similarly sized towers on the Euclid/Lindell site.
For sure, CWE just keeps growing and adding more urban fabric, love to see it.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Feb 24, 2022Would love to see what this area of the Central West End would look like if this gets built, plus two more similarly sized towers on the Euclid/Lindell site.
Long term, and not sure how feasible this would be seeing the amount of traffic Kingshighway carries, but I'd love to see something done to make Forest Park more accessible by walking from CWE. I know we have lots of crosswalks but the way Kingshighway is setup and the way people fly down the street, it really feels like a barrier between the neighborhood and the park. Elevated pedestrian walkway? raise the street level crosswalks into that speed bump style that's seen in the park? Central Park in NYC is the only other urban park of similar scale surrounded by housing on all sides, be nice to have that "walk right into the park from my front door" feeling.
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I'm not sure what St. Louis can do to fix that.
One thing that I love about St. Louis is the quality of its parks. But the weak link in its parks is often the engagement between the parks and their surrounding neighborhoods.
In the Central West End, like you said, you have cars flying down Kingshighway, but also very little in terms of retail that faces the park. Even worse is the national park downtown, where the only retail store or restaurant facing the Arch, national park, or river is.... an axe-throwing bar...
One thing that I love about St. Louis is the quality of its parks. But the weak link in its parks is often the engagement between the parks and their surrounding neighborhoods.
In the Central West End, like you said, you have cars flying down Kingshighway, but also very little in terms of retail that faces the park. Even worse is the national park downtown, where the only retail store or restaurant facing the Arch, national park, or river is.... an axe-throwing bar...
Maybe shift any Kingshighway-facing retail that is planned around to the Lindell side. Retail makes more sense being tied more closely and visually to The Chase, York and Euclid than facing Kingshighway. Kingshighway doesn't make much sense as a retail corridor, but this block of Lindell could be more of one, especially if the SW corner @ Euclid is ever developed.npav wrote: ↑Feb 24, 2022I'd like more pedestrian activation on the corner, put in a retail/restaurant space and keep the urban fabric going. Sitting right across the street from Forest Park and surrounded by people, it should have more going on on the ground floor.dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Thanks for the big pic.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Here's a large rendering provided to me by Koplar Properties. You should be able to zoom in on this and see some more details.
A few more observations...Albion West End.jpg
- Lindell side of the parking garage does not have any activation (presently). These plans could change.
- There is a slight cantilever by time the building reaches the second level.
- The bronze accents are more visible.
- Looks like the left side of the podium will be top-level parking. Right side seems to be where the pool deck will be (offering a view of Forest Park).
Yeah, this side does not work and needs to be revisited.
I think a simple solution is a pedestrian overpass (or, honestly, a few along K'way while it goes to Forest Park. With all of the hospital traffic, a diet on Kingshighway is probably not feasible.
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A diet short of some bus lanes probably isn’t feasible, but what if you had pedestrian refuge areas in the medians. Could make it a little better at least?bwcrow1s wrote:I think a simple solution is a pedestrian overpass (or, honestly, a few along K'way while it goes to Forest Park. With all of the hospital traffic, a diet on Kingshighway is probably not feasible.
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