urbanSTL

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Sep 09, 2021

eee123 wrote: ↑

Sep 09, 2021

In true St. Louis fashion, it seems the river-inspired walkways to enter Union Station along 18th at Clark (just north of the Metro station) have been barricaded and closed for a while now.

There doesn't seem to be construction or anything. Is this intended to control the crowds of juveniles on the weekends, or what?

It's the River Park/radical cartography part of this map that I'm referring to.
https://www.ion.org/images/Train-Park-STLUS.jpg

It's called a choke point.  

Used as a force multiplier when you are facing superior numbers, to concentrate and maximize the effectiveness of limited defenders.

It was pleasant to walk through on the way to Metrolink.

It's depressing how much of our downtown is retrofitted to stop unwanted behavior, most to the detriment of the majority of the population.

I was in the area yesterday and can't help but think about how much better and more impressive the Union Station/Centene Stadium area could be if the Union Station lot between Union Station and the MLS practice fields would be developed. 

I also wish that the Metrolink station could be moved under the historic shed, but the millions of dollars to move the station a few hundred feet is admittedly probably not worth it. 

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

I was in the area yesterday and can't help but think about how much better and more impressive the Union Station/Centene Stadium area could be if the Union Station lot between Union Station and the MLS practice fields would be developed. 

I also wish that the Metrolink station could be moved under the historic shed, but the millions of dollars to move the station a few hundred feet is admittedly probably not worth it. 

Metro and US don’t get along. Metro had to spend a boat load of extra money on tunnel work because US wouldn’t allow a temporary easement.

Always looking out for efficiency I see. As long as the costs are socialized, of course.

quincunx wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

Always looking out for efficiency I see. As long as the costs are socialized, of course.

I think US had a good case. It would have dug up their entire lots for extended time

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

I was in the area yesterday and can't help but think about how much better and more impressive the Union Station/Centene Stadium area could be if the Union Station lot between Union Station and the MLS practice fields would be developed. 

I also wish that the Metrolink station could be moved under the historic shed, but the millions of dollars to move the station a few hundred feet is admittedly probably not worth it. 

Metro and US don’t get along.  Metro had to spend a boat load of extra money on tunnel work because US wouldn’t allow a temporary easement.

It's really too bad that Union Station wouldn't cooperate with Metro. 

You would think a new station that literally pops up in the middle of the entertainment district would be something they'd want. 

I've always thought it's so ridiculous how the Union Station stop isn't inside one of the US's most historic train stations, but off below grade hidden a few hundred feet away.

Walking off the Metrolink into the middle of an entertainment district with everything you want to access right at the station or walking out into the Grand Hall is how you give your transit system a "wow" factor and drive home the usefulness of it to doubters.

I've said it at length before, but the fact that Metrolink almost never puts you in the spot you actually want to go or to the neighborhoods that would use it the most is it's biggest fault in it's current form.

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

...I also wish that the Metrolink station could be moved under the historic shed, but the millions of dollars to move the station a few hundred feet is admittedly probably not worth it. 

Moving it probably isn't worth it, but the west end of the platform and the elevator do pop up at the edge of the train shed. A lot could be done to dress up that existing access as well as making the walking routes between it and the attractions a lot more attractive and pedestrian friendly instead of weaving through parked cars.

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

...I also wish that the Metrolink station could be moved under the historic shed, but the millions of dollars to move the station a few hundred feet is admittedly probably not worth it. 

Moving it probably isn't worth it, but the west end of the platform and the elevator do pop up at the edge of the train shed. A lot could be done to dress up that existing access as well as making the walking routes between it and the attractions a lot more attractive and pedestrian friendly instead of weaving through parked cars.

I'm still of the opinion that Union Station should invest on those lots under the historic train shed. Using that area for parking is a massive waste.

The current Metrolink station can work for that area, but Union Station is going to have to expand further out into the lot to make it a better experience for Union Station guests and Metrolink riders. 

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2022

...I also wish that the Metrolink station could be moved under the historic shed, but the millions of dollars to move the station a few hundred feet is admittedly probably not worth it. 

Moving it probably isn't worth it, but the west end of the platform and the elevator do pop up at the edge of the train shed. A lot could be done to dress up that existing access as well as making the walking routes between it and the attractions a lot more attractive and pedestrian friendly instead of weaving through parked cars.

I'm still of the opinion that Union Station should invest on those lots under the historic train shed. Using that area for parking is a massive waste.

The current Metrolink station can work for that area, but Union Station is going to have to expand further out into the lot to make it a better experience for Union Station guests and Metrolink riders. 

I agree, I'd probably be ok with seeing a garage or two built west of the train shed if it meant infilling the area under it with more attractions/restaurants/etc.

^I really would like to see a small theme park under the shed, one that operates a little bit like Nickelodeon Universe at the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota, where park-goers can purchase single rides or all-day passes, where customers can come and go as they please. Want to go to the Arch in the early afternoon and then return after dinner? You betcha - go for it.  

I'd love to see a roller coaster and a few other higher intensity rides under the shed to diversify the age range of attractions.  

Current long term plans for the lot west of US (one being bookend by Maggie O's and Drury) is to repave it and re-stripe sometime early next year before the MLS season kicks off)

Plans for a sports bar at 20th and Market at US are still moving forward for end of year opening. 

Water attractions, especially for the summer when St. Louis is sweltering, would be super fun and almost surely a hit.

I saw what db said about the Union Station lot being repaved. In the short-term, this makes sense. In the long-term, though, I don't think it does. 

Would be sweet if, continuing to play on my Nickelodeon Universe comp, Union Station could put upper-end retail on that lot. If the city could fix the FPA and Grand intersection and connect Market with Forest Park Ave., you could have a nice chain of retail starting with IKEA and ending at Union Station, with lots of opportunity for more in the roughly one-mile stretch between the two. 

Families would be able to buy all-day passes at Union Station, but then also leave for shopping across the street at their leisure. 

As I think about it I'm a bit confused why you'd have to tear up the lot at all. If you look at this Union Station track diagram and floorplan from about 1900 you can see where the tunnels under the station ran relative to the shed.


I believe Metrolink currently occupies the tunnel labeled "Main Subway." If the Main Subway survived in a useful form to house Metrolink were the rest filled in, or could they possibly be repaired or cleared? As you go through on Metrolink there's quite a bit of space, so you should be able to build a stop right there beneath the station. Maybe you could use the "North Subway," which ran all the way to the headhouse basement, to link that stop either to the Midway, or to some point in the shed away from the parking lot. In any case, yes, I think it would be much better to have the stop inside the station itself. And maybe the new management would be more amenable to it than the old was.

^^^^db. any details about the sports bar? Is it a chain or locally owned and operated? If local, is it someone who has other places in St. Louis? I've always thought opening a soccer bar, like Amsterdam Tavern, within walking distance of the stadium would be a no-brainer. With the MLS having a lot of Saturday afternoon games on the schedule, you could get the soccer fans to come in for the morning games in the European leagues and then hang around until the MLS game starts.

^ locally owned by the US owners. They’ve shopped around design/feel/name ideas and the menu and I think everyone will love it. I wouldn’t expect any announcements until later in the summer

^ Great to hear.  Would be cool to get some additional developments under the shed; I know you said the lot by the practice fields is going to remain that for the foreseeable future.  I wonder if there's been any ideas kicked around internally.

there is tent camping across the street from Union Station adjacent to that fountain? Who knew?

https://www.stlmag.com/dining/the-pitch ... tion-earl/

pop_scientist wrote: ↑

Jun 06, 2022

https://www.stlmag.com/dining/the-pitch ... tion-earl/

"The venue will also include an outdoor seating area along the side of the building equipped with heaters and misters, as well as “gaslights along the building, to make it look as European and Old World as we possibly can,” says Pastoret."

This is going to be awesome.

Yeah, this really does sound legit. I can't wait to see it completed. 

I'm getting more and more into European soccer and plan to get into MLS a bit more as St. Louis City SC gets closer to debuting.