^yeah that is why even though we live in the city Catholic schools are pretty much out of question, do not want to subject my kids to that sort of brainwashing (even though I went to Catholic schools myself)
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Miss Shell, while I respect your opinion, I’ve seen much of what you described in public schools as well. I’ve gone to both Catholic & public schools. I saw those environments in both and the opposite in both. As a lifetime southsider, the Catholic history and legacy is a very important and IMO, cherished piece of STL history. Many neighborhoods in the City were centered and solidified by the churches over the decades. I understand there are old traditions that need to change and mistakes made by the church, but I also feel some go after Catholics no matter what they do. I feel just like any religion there are good things and things that could be changed.
I just get frustrated when people would celebrate say a new Scientology church or mosque, yet get angry when Catholics do anything. Not looking to get further into the weeds on this, but also wanted to add my two cents as a lifetime southside Catholic (not devout).
I just get frustrated when people would celebrate say a new Scientology church or mosque, yet get angry when Catholics do anything. Not looking to get further into the weeds on this, but also wanted to add my two cents as a lifetime southside Catholic (not devout).
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I was about to say the same thing, dogtown. And I had a feeling this thread would attract some Catholic-bashing. Using words like “brainwashing” and “homophobic” and other buzzword talking points do no good. This is a religion we are talking about. Most religions have similar LGBT views. The Catholic Church is far from perfect when it comes to gay rights (I believe the Episcopal Church is the gold standard, coming from a gay Catholic myself), but the Catholic Church is far better than Islam or the Westboro Baptist Church when it comes to this IMO.
I also am no longer practicing, though I do occasionally attend Mass a few times a year. I spent 2 years in public school and the rest in Catholic school. If I had to do it over again, I would have spent all of my years in Catholic school. But everyone has their own opinion and experiences. I know plenty of people who have experienced far less bullying in Catholic school than they did in public school, but again… everyone has their own experiences.
I’m very intrigued to see how this “All Things New” strategic plan plays out. Adding to what Ebsy said further above, the Catholic Church is an old institution. Restructuring and reallocating is necessary as the world evolves. The Catholic Church may not be perfect (no institution is), but I can’t imagine a world without it. I especially can’t imagine a St. Louis without it.
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I also am no longer practicing, though I do occasionally attend Mass a few times a year. I spent 2 years in public school and the rest in Catholic school. If I had to do it over again, I would have spent all of my years in Catholic school. But everyone has their own opinion and experiences. I know plenty of people who have experienced far less bullying in Catholic school than they did in public school, but again… everyone has their own experiences.
I’m very intrigued to see how this “All Things New” strategic plan plays out. Adding to what Ebsy said further above, the Catholic Church is an old institution. Restructuring and reallocating is necessary as the world evolves. The Catholic Church may not be perfect (no institution is), but I can’t imagine a world without it. I especially can’t imagine a St. Louis without it.
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I actually didn't even realize this until I was able to remove some of my small town SEMissouri brainwashing... I would have assumed Catholics were all Republican voters growing up in the birth county of Rush Limbaugh. ...and Miss Shell, as a Catholic, I don't blame you for leaving... I have almost done the same myself multiple times.
"Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
...but just like most things in the US these days, the Catholic Church has two distinct sides to it. Someone that turned my head was Fr. James Martin (Editor of The America Magazine: The Jesuit Review of Faith & Culture). He's doing his best to be a voice for a less "insert favorite GOP adjective-buzzword" future for the US Catholic Church. He's the chief voice for LGBTQ+ in the Church and attempting to change the conversation on many fronts.
"Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
...but just like most things in the US these days, the Catholic Church has two distinct sides to it. Someone that turned my head was Fr. James Martin (Editor of The America Magazine: The Jesuit Review of Faith & Culture). He's doing his best to be a voice for a less "insert favorite GOP adjective-buzzword" future for the US Catholic Church. He's the chief voice for LGBTQ+ in the Church and attempting to change the conversation on many fronts.
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Fr. Martin is amazing. He played a big role in giving me the courage to come out to my Catholic family. Anyways… we’re veering off topic a bit.
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pattimagee wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022I actually didn't even realize this until I was able to remove some of my small town SEMissouri brainwashing... I would have assumed Catholics were all Republican voters growing up in the birth county of Rush Limbaugh. ...and Miss Shell, as a Catholic, I don't blame you for leaving... I have almost done the same myself multiple times.
"Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
...but just like most things in the US these days, the Catholic Church has two distinct sides to it. Someone that turned my head was Fr. James Martin (Editor of The America Magazine: The Jesuit Review of Faith & Culture). He's doing his best to be a voice for a less "insert favorite GOP adjective-buzzword" future for the US Catholic Church. He's the chief voice for LGBTQ+ in the Church and attempting to change the conversation on many fronts.
Going to STL city Catholic grade school and high school I assumed 90% were democrats, I know the 2 dozen friends that I still keep in touch with are, I think it depends on where the church is/was
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St. Roch’s produced Michael HarringtondbInSouthCity wrote:pattimagee wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022I actually didn't even realize this until I was able to remove some of my small town SEMissouri brainwashing... I would have assumed Catholics were all Republican voters growing up in the birth county of Rush Limbaugh. ...and Miss Shell, as a Catholic, I don't blame you for leaving... I have almost done the same myself multiple times.
"Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
...but just like most things in the US these days, the Catholic Church has two distinct sides to it. Someone that turned my head was Fr. James Martin (Editor of The America Magazine: The Jesuit Review of Faith & Culture). He's doing his best to be a voice for a less "insert favorite GOP adjective-buzzword" future for the US Catholic Church. He's the chief voice for LGBTQ+ in the Church and attempting to change the conversation on many fronts.
Going to STL city Catholic grade school and high school I assumed 90% were democrats, I know the 2 dozen friends that I still keep in touch with are, I think it depends on where the church is/was
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Harrington went to SLUH though you will never catch them admitting that!SeattleNative wrote: ↑Feb 03, 2022St. Roch’s produced Michael HarringtondbInSouthCity wrote:pattimagee wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022I actually didn't even realize this until I was able to remove some of my small town SEMissouri brainwashing... I would have assumed Catholics were all Republican voters growing up in the birth county of Rush Limbaugh. ...and Miss Shell, as a Catholic, I don't blame you for leaving... I have almost done the same myself multiple times.
"Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
...but just like most things in the US these days, the Catholic Church has two distinct sides to it. Someone that turned my head was Fr. James Martin (Editor of The America Magazine: The Jesuit Review of Faith & Culture). He's doing his best to be a voice for a less "insert favorite GOP adjective-buzzword" future for the US Catholic Church. He's the chief voice for LGBTQ+ in the Church and attempting to change the conversation on many fronts.
Going to STL city Catholic grade school and high school I assumed 90% were democrats, I know the 2 dozen friends that I still keep in touch with are, I think it depends on where the church is/was
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White ethnics in St. Louis (primarily Irish, Italians, Poles, Catholic Germans), like in many northern cities, were almost entirely Democrats. Only once their children started intermarrying and moving out to the suburbs did you see large numbers start to vote for the Republicans. My uncle's father (eye-talian) was a Democratic state representative from the Dogtown area and yet his son and granddaughters live out in Mehlville now and vote straight ticket GOP. As mentioned above, Catholics tend to be quite split nowadays though Biden did exceptionally well among Catholics in South City, getting thousands of more votes than Clinton did in the Catholic wards in southwest City.
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I lived across the alley from St.Mary’s HS, it’s odd seeing it transform into basically just an athletes factory. They just won state title in football by like 35-40 points by game.
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Yeah - that was mind-blowing to me as a 22+ year old when I moved to STL.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022pattimagee wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022I actually didn't even realize this until I was able to remove some of my small town SEMissouri brainwashing... I would have assumed Catholics were all Republican voters growing up in the birth county of Rush Limbaugh. ...and Miss Shell, as a Catholic, I don't blame you for leaving... I have almost done the same myself multiple times.
"Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
...but just like most things in the US these days, the Catholic Church has two distinct sides to it. Someone that turned my head was Fr. James Martin (Editor of The America Magazine: The Jesuit Review of Faith & Culture). He's doing his best to be a voice for a less "insert favorite GOP adjective-buzzword" future for the US Catholic Church. He's the chief voice for LGBTQ+ in the Church and attempting to change the conversation on many fronts.
Going to STL city Catholic grade school and high school I assumed 90% were democrats, I know the 2 dozen friends that I still keep in touch with are, I think it depends on where the church is/was
and billikens_19 thanks for sharing that - makes me happy to hear!
St. Mary's announced that they have reached a deal to stay open for the next few years at least. They have raised a bit over 3 million dollars, plan to raise an additional 7. Good news, but seems like the campaign to save Rosati may not be going quite as well.
I see real estate sell offs: some in key areas. St. Luke in Richmond Heights and Sts Peter and Paul in Soulard should get healthy bids for land.
I can see Wash U buying St. Roch's - They probably have had it on their radar for yearsdweebe wrote: ↑May 28, 2023
I see real estate sell offs: some in key areas. St. Luke in Richmond Heights and Sts Peter and Paul in Soulard should get healthy bids for land.
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I didn’t see St. Roch’s on the list. Is it closing too?beer city wrote:I can see Wash U buying St. Roch's - They probably have had it on their radar for yearsdweebe wrote: ↑May 28, 2023
I see real estate sell offs: some in key areas. St. Luke in Richmond Heights and Sts Peter and Paul in Soulard should get healthy bids for land.
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St. Roch's is closing and being merged with Christ the King in Clayton. St. Luke's is closing but that church is used for a Latin Mass congregation so that church and the field are probably not being sold.
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For me, most notable, St. James the Greater in Dogtown is staying open! Great news for Dogtown!
Very sad to see some of the long time parishes like St. Luke's (2 min. outside of Dogtown) St. Roch's and St. John the Baptist in Dutchtown. That was a bit of shocker. However, the current pastor has said that St. John's will remain available for funerals and weddings, just no masses.
Some of these buildings have been used for other purposes prior to the parish consolidations, so hopefully most are still used for their intended purposes.
Very sad to see some of the long time parishes like St. Luke's (2 min. outside of Dogtown) St. Roch's and St. John the Baptist in Dutchtown. That was a bit of shocker. However, the current pastor has said that St. John's will remain available for funerals and weddings, just no masses.
Some of these buildings have been used for other purposes prior to the parish consolidations, so hopefully most are still used for their intended purposes.
I forgot about the "church within a church" setup at St. Lukes. Plus they still have the small K-2 school there.Ebsy wrote: ↑May 30, 2023St. Roch's is closing and being merged with Christ the King in Clayton. St. Luke's is closing but that church is used for a Latin Mass congregation so that church and the field are probably not being sold.
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So many beautiful church buildings. Hope they find productive next lives....
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I'd love to see some of them find new life as community centers. At one time churches performed that function, in a day when we all held more compatible belief systems. I hope for the day when we are all sufficiently tolerant that differing beliefs are, once again, compatible.
I agree 100% with you. But at this point my guess is the archdiocese will sell off whatever properties they can to developers.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑May 31, 2023I'd love to see some of them find new life as community centers. At one time churches performed that function, in a day when we all held more compatible belief systems. I hope for the day when we are all sufficiently tolerant that differing beliefs are, once again, compatible.
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So while a church is more than its architecture and closing it has a lot of impacts beyond putting our architectural heritage at risk, it being St. Louis my mind immediately goes to the potential for loss of that heritage. SO i looked over the various buildings and here were some thoughts.
Several are well outside the metro and very small rural communities. I can imagine those communities feel a little rejected by the church but i didn't really look into them much. Also from my perspective strictly based on architectural value there are several that could simply be demoed right away and I would barely register it as a loss. The majority though are quite lovely and as is the case with many churches are distinctly recognizable a churches from the street. Its hard to imagine them as anything else.
Some could be converted for secular use by removing the religious iconography. St. John the Apostle and Evangelist could be a performance venue in downtown west. All Saints could generate interest from an institutional investor like Wash U. There are several with potential as micro breweries.
St. Roch and St. Peter & Paul and St. Martin de Porres are literally gems. Would have rather they consolidate the parishioners from St. Joseph Croatian to St Peter & Paul because the former seems easier aesthetically to convert to secular uses. Similar assessment for St. Roch relative to Christ the King. Of course i am basing this entirely on the aesthetic of the architecture rather than the convenience to the bulk of parishioners. Unlike the other two St. Martin eschews traditional aesthetic and urban local for suburban MCM. I hope it doesn't get demoed but its hard to imagine a new land-use that would actually make use of it.
I think the easiest of the ugly ones to sell to a developer are St. John Bosco, and St. Robert Bellarmine. Those should be snapped up fast and for a tidy sum. Some of the others mentioned St. Luke and St. Roch are in desirable locations but reuse of the current structure as something other that a church is challenging to imagine & demo would be sinful.
I wish they would just mothball some of them in case there is a population rebound.
Figured someone should post the full list so here it is.
These parishes will be closed:
• All Saints in University City
• Blessed Teresa of Calcutta in Ferguson
• Cure of Ars in Shrewsbury
• Immaculate Conception in Maplewood
• Immaculate Heart of Mary in St. Louis
• Our Lady of the Presentation in Overland
• St. Andrew in Lemay
• St. Barnabas the Apostle in O’Fallon
• St. Bernadette in Lemay
• St. Catherine of Alexandria in Coffman
• St. Cronan in St. Louis
• St. Francis of Assisi in Luebbering
• St. Francis of Assisi of Portage des Sioux
• St. John the Apostle and Evangelist in St. Louis
• St. John the Apostle Mission in Bismarck
• St. John the Baptist in St. Louis
• St. John Bosco in Maryland Heights
• St. John Paul II in Affton
• St. Joseph in Tiff
• St. Jude in Overland
• St. Lawrence in Lawrenceton
• St. Luke the Evangelist in Richmond Heights
• St. Martin de Porres in Hazelwood
• St. Martin of Tours in Lemay
• St. Matthias in Lemay
• St. Paul in Berger
• St. Richard near Creve Coeur
• St. Rita in Vinita Park
• St. Robert Bellarmine in St. Charles
• St. Roch in St. Louis
• St. Rose Philippine Duchesne in Florissant
• St. Sabina in Florissant
• St. Stephen in Richwoods
• Sts. Peter and Paul in St. Louis
• Sts. Philip and James in River aux Vases
These 15 existing parishes will be merged to form five new parishes:
• Holy Name of Jesus in Bissell Hills, St. Angela Merici near Florissant and St. Norbert Parish near Florissant will be merged into a single parish.
• Our Lady of the Holy Cross in St. Louis, St. Augustine in St. Louis, St. Elizabeth, Mother of John the Baptist in St. Louis, and St. Matthew the Apostle in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Most Holy Trinity in St. Louis, St. Nicholas in St. Louis and Sts. Teresa and Bridget in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Our Lady of Sorrows in St. Louis, Church of the Magdalen in St. Louis, and St. Joan of Arc in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Immaculate Conception in Arnold and St. David Parish in Arnold will be merged into a single parish.
Several are well outside the metro and very small rural communities. I can imagine those communities feel a little rejected by the church but i didn't really look into them much. Also from my perspective strictly based on architectural value there are several that could simply be demoed right away and I would barely register it as a loss. The majority though are quite lovely and as is the case with many churches are distinctly recognizable a churches from the street. Its hard to imagine them as anything else.
Some could be converted for secular use by removing the religious iconography. St. John the Apostle and Evangelist could be a performance venue in downtown west. All Saints could generate interest from an institutional investor like Wash U. There are several with potential as micro breweries.
St. Roch and St. Peter & Paul and St. Martin de Porres are literally gems. Would have rather they consolidate the parishioners from St. Joseph Croatian to St Peter & Paul because the former seems easier aesthetically to convert to secular uses. Similar assessment for St. Roch relative to Christ the King. Of course i am basing this entirely on the aesthetic of the architecture rather than the convenience to the bulk of parishioners. Unlike the other two St. Martin eschews traditional aesthetic and urban local for suburban MCM. I hope it doesn't get demoed but its hard to imagine a new land-use that would actually make use of it.
I think the easiest of the ugly ones to sell to a developer are St. John Bosco, and St. Robert Bellarmine. Those should be snapped up fast and for a tidy sum. Some of the others mentioned St. Luke and St. Roch are in desirable locations but reuse of the current structure as something other that a church is challenging to imagine & demo would be sinful.
I wish they would just mothball some of them in case there is a population rebound.
Figured someone should post the full list so here it is.
These parishes will be closed:
• All Saints in University City
• Blessed Teresa of Calcutta in Ferguson
• Cure of Ars in Shrewsbury
• Immaculate Conception in Maplewood
• Immaculate Heart of Mary in St. Louis
• Our Lady of the Presentation in Overland
• St. Andrew in Lemay
• St. Barnabas the Apostle in O’Fallon
• St. Bernadette in Lemay
• St. Catherine of Alexandria in Coffman
• St. Cronan in St. Louis
• St. Francis of Assisi in Luebbering
• St. Francis of Assisi of Portage des Sioux
• St. John the Apostle and Evangelist in St. Louis
• St. John the Apostle Mission in Bismarck
• St. John the Baptist in St. Louis
• St. John Bosco in Maryland Heights
• St. John Paul II in Affton
• St. Joseph in Tiff
• St. Jude in Overland
• St. Lawrence in Lawrenceton
• St. Luke the Evangelist in Richmond Heights
• St. Martin de Porres in Hazelwood
• St. Martin of Tours in Lemay
• St. Matthias in Lemay
• St. Paul in Berger
• St. Richard near Creve Coeur
• St. Rita in Vinita Park
• St. Robert Bellarmine in St. Charles
• St. Roch in St. Louis
• St. Rose Philippine Duchesne in Florissant
• St. Sabina in Florissant
• St. Stephen in Richwoods
• Sts. Peter and Paul in St. Louis
• Sts. Philip and James in River aux Vases
These 15 existing parishes will be merged to form five new parishes:
• Holy Name of Jesus in Bissell Hills, St. Angela Merici near Florissant and St. Norbert Parish near Florissant will be merged into a single parish.
• Our Lady of the Holy Cross in St. Louis, St. Augustine in St. Louis, St. Elizabeth, Mother of John the Baptist in St. Louis, and St. Matthew the Apostle in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Most Holy Trinity in St. Louis, St. Nicholas in St. Louis and Sts. Teresa and Bridget in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Our Lady of Sorrows in St. Louis, Church of the Magdalen in St. Louis, and St. Joan of Arc in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Immaculate Conception in Arnold and St. David Parish in Arnold will be merged into a single parish.
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It is worth noting that while these places are closing as parishes and being merged with another it doesn’t simply mean the building is being vacated. From the list I know of a couple that will still be open to the public and providing the sacraments. Then another handful that will be available for specific things such as Marriages, Baptisms, Funeral rights. I imagine as the priests retire from these specific ones they will then be vacated but the diocese has not been transparent about that.STLEnginerd wrote:So while a church is more than its architecture and closing it has a lot of impacts beyond putting our architectural heritage at risk, it being St. Louis my mind immediately goes to the potential for loss of that heritage. SO i looked over the various buildings and here were some thoughts.
Several are well outside the metro and very small rural communities. I can imagine those communities feel a little rejected by the church but i didn't really look into them much. Also from my perspective strictly based on architectural value there are several that could simply be demoed right away and I would barely register it as a loss. The majority though are quite lovely and as is the case with many churches are distinctly recognizable a churches from the street. Its hard to imagine them as anything else.
Some could be converted for secular use by removing the religious iconography. St. John the Apostle and Evangelist could be a performance venue in downtown west. All Saints could generate interest from an institutional investor like Wash U. There are several with potential as micro breweries.
St. Roch and St. Peter & Paul and St. Martin de Porres are literally gems. Would have rather they consolidate the parishioners from St. Joseph Croatian to St Peter & Paul because the former seems easier aesthetically to convert to secular uses. Similar assessment for St. Roch relative to Christ the King. Of course i am basing this entirely on the aesthetic of the architecture rather than the convenience to the bulk of parishioners. Unlike the other two St. Martin eschews traditional aesthetic and urban local for suburban MCM. I hope it doesn't get demoed but its hard to imagine a new land-use that would actually make use of it.
I think the easiest of the ugly ones to sell to a developer are St. John Bosco, and St. Robert Bellarmine. Those should be snapped up fast and for a tidy sum. Some of the others mentioned St. Luke and St. Roch are in desirable locations but reuse of the current structure as something other that a church is challenging to imagine & demo would be sinful.
I wish they would just mothball some of them in case there is a population rebound.
Figured someone should post the full list so here it is.
These parishes will be closed:
• All Saints in University City
• Blessed Teresa of Calcutta in Ferguson
• Cure of Ars in Shrewsbury
• Immaculate Conception in Maplewood
• Immaculate Heart of Mary in St. Louis
• Our Lady of the Presentation in Overland
• St. Andrew in Lemay
• St. Barnabas the Apostle in O’Fallon
• St. Bernadette in Lemay
• St. Catherine of Alexandria in Coffman
• St. Cronan in St. Louis
• St. Francis of Assisi in Luebbering
• St. Francis of Assisi of Portage des Sioux
• St. John the Apostle and Evangelist in St. Louis
• St. John the Apostle Mission in Bismarck
• St. John the Baptist in St. Louis
• St. John Bosco in Maryland Heights
• St. John Paul II in Affton
• St. Joseph in Tiff
• St. Jude in Overland
• St. Lawrence in Lawrenceton
• St. Luke the Evangelist in Richmond Heights
• St. Martin de Porres in Hazelwood
• St. Martin of Tours in Lemay
• St. Matthias in Lemay
• St. Paul in Berger
• St. Richard near Creve Coeur
• St. Rita in Vinita Park
• St. Robert Bellarmine in St. Charles
• St. Roch in St. Louis
• St. Rose Philippine Duchesne in Florissant
• St. Sabina in Florissant
• St. Stephen in Richwoods
• Sts. Peter and Paul in St. Louis
• Sts. Philip and James in River aux Vases
These 15 existing parishes will be merged to form five new parishes:
• Holy Name of Jesus in Bissell Hills, St. Angela Merici near Florissant and St. Norbert Parish near Florissant will be merged into a single parish.
• Our Lady of the Holy Cross in St. Louis, St. Augustine in St. Louis, St. Elizabeth, Mother of John the Baptist in St. Louis, and St. Matthew the Apostle in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Most Holy Trinity in St. Louis, St. Nicholas in St. Louis and Sts. Teresa and Bridget in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Our Lady of Sorrows in St. Louis, Church of the Magdalen in St. Louis, and St. Joan of Arc in St. Louis will be merged into a single parish.
• Immaculate Conception in Arnold and St. David Parish in Arnold will be merged into a single parish.
^ That’s the next step. They’ve identified parish closures. Now they’ll start determining which churches will remain open as chapels, shrines, etc. Others like Sts. Peter and Paul in Soulard will remain open and continue their outreach programs.
Previous closures over the years in the city likely provide some clues here. Look how long St. Mary of Victories or the Shrine of St. Joseph have survived despite not having regular congregations for years.
Previous closures over the years in the city likely provide some clues here. Look how long St. Mary of Victories or the Shrine of St. Joseph have survived despite not having regular congregations for years.
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^Are those owned by the archdiocese? I have a funny feeling both are controlled by religious orders somewhat autonomous from the regular parish structure. St. Mary of Victories was historically a convent, and might still be under the control of that order, even if they don't have housing there anymore. The Shrine of St. Joseph rather sounds like it's also got some outside support. Things get funny when you have monks and nuns involved. They have their own governing structures that, while not necessarily completely independent of the see where they reside, also aren't strictly controlled by it. SLU and the archdiocese got in a fight about that when SLU sold the hospital. I think the Vatican equivalent of the Supreme Court twisted their arms and convinced them to settle rather than issue a ruling on the matter. Heck, the diocese didn't really own even all the parish churches until the early 90s, which is when the fight with St. Stan's went down. (They still might not own Frank Xavier. I'm not sure. It is a parish church, but I think historically the Jesuits owned it. They might still.) They've been trying to regularize all that stuff, but I'm not sure they've completely succeeded. Some institutions (like colleges) are pretty powerful and traditionally rather independent.