Don’t want to see ride of the century? Narrow all the roads and implement traffic calming measures city-wide. This occurs because we designed our streets to accommodate this craziness
StlToday - Crime is top issue facing St. Louis, mayor tells Mo. Senate panel
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 0fd4a.html
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 0fd4a.html
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Isom mentioned parking enforcement and temp/expired tags as well... I know that's a touch point for a lot of people here, lol.
^ I was recently out in Denver and heard that the city's parking enforcement officers also now have the ability (and responsibility) to write tickets for tag violations and expired plates in addition to standard parking violations. Given the zealous nature of the parking enforcement officers in St. Louis, I wonder if they could do something similar. Obviously we would still be dependent on the police to actually impound offending vehicles, but perhaps it would expedite the process for them to pull over/impound vehicles that already have 3 outstanding tickets (or however many) for tag violations that were written by parking enforcement.
I'm not sure why they couldn't. It sounds like a parking violation to me.
I've also seen no evidence that they care about people parking halfway in the buffer zone between bike and parking lane along Chestnut (the parking-protected bike lane). They'd certainly care if a car was halfway out of the spot the other way, into the street.
A parking aside, but how did it come to be that the parking bureau doesn't enforce violations to the loading zones? People park in them all day, some with only 10% of the car actually in the loading zone while the rest is abutting the crosswalk, and the parking bureau acts like this is not their concern even after dozens of CSB requests.17.52.290 - State vehicle license plates required.
No person shall operate or park any motor vehicle or trailer upon any street or highway of this City, unless such motor vehicle or trailer has properly displayed a valid and proper license plate or plates or temporary permit required by Department of Revenue issued to the lawful owner of the vehicle by the Department of Revenue of the state, except that any person who is a nonresident of the state may operate or park any motor vehicle or trailer upon any street or highway of this City, provided the motor vehicle or trailer has been duly registered for the current year in the state, country, or other place of which the owner is a resident, provided that at all times such motor vehicle or trailer is being operated or parked upon the streets or highways of this City, the valid license plate or plates or temporary permit is properly displayed on such vehicle or trailer.
A.
A person who is a resident of the State of Missouri shall not operate or park any motor vehicle or trailer upon any street or highway of this City, unless such motor vehicle or trailer has a valid and proper license plate or plates required by the Missouri Department of Revenue for the type of vehicle involved, lawfully issued to the vehicle displayed thereon, and displayed in the manner required by law.
B.
A person who is a nonresident of the State of Missouri shall not operate or park any motor vehicle or trailer upon any street or highway of this City, unless such motor vehicle or trailer has the valid and proper license plate or places required by the resident state or country of such nonresident, for the vehicle type involved, lawfully issued to the vehicle displayed thereon, and displayed on the vehicle in the manner required by law. In the case of commercial motor vehicles, they shall be properly licensed for the total gross vehicle weight of the vehicle or combination of motor vehicles.
C.
Vehicle(s) shall be exempt from Subsections A and B providing a valid temporary permit authorized by the Department of Revenue is being displayed properly and lawfully in the case of Missouri residents; or in the case of nonresidents, a valid temporary permit is being lawfully displayed for the vehicle involved in the manner required by the laws of such state.
I've also seen no evidence that they care about people parking halfway in the buffer zone between bike and parking lane along Chestnut (the parking-protected bike lane). They'd certainly care if a car was halfway out of the spot the other way, into the street.
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As my office is downtown (still working from home though) my eye doctor and dentist are downtown too. I recently drove down to have a screw replaced in my glasses. I was in the office less than 10 minutes and I got a parking ticket. I paid it - BUT I can not go ONE day without seeing at least one (and often more) expired tags. Some over a year expired. I feel like it lends to the perception that our officers don't care.
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So what will the Tishaura haters find to complain about now re: Downtown crime? Her Administration has now addressed all of the recent newsworthy crime stories relatively quickly: Crime in Kiener/CityGardden: increase police…gunshots at club: revoke liquor license…crime at homeless encampment: shut it down.
I recently got a parking ticket for having my car parked on the street for 5 days in a row (not related to street cleaning). I had never had that happen before, and my car is routinely parked in one spot for more than 5 days because I do not drive to work. I looked it up and it is in city code, but seems unnecessary to me. I can see a car without plates, expired tags, derelict/not driveable, but otherwise ticketing a car on a residential street because its parked in one spot for 5 or more days doesn't seem to serve any pressing public function.
What are people's thoughts about bringing back camera enforcement? I think if it was structured as a safety move rather than a revenue-raising move (e.g., put cameras in areas based on accident rate, not high-traffic but overall safe areas) it might have more public support. It might also be useful for the motorcycle incident noted above, where having police intervene at the time might not be practical, or even safe, but camera enforcement might be useful. Maybe this would actually be a place where drones could help with targeted enforcement without much civil liberties infringement.
What are people's thoughts about bringing back camera enforcement? I think if it was structured as a safety move rather than a revenue-raising move (e.g., put cameras in areas based on accident rate, not high-traffic but overall safe areas) it might have more public support. It might also be useful for the motorcycle incident noted above, where having police intervene at the time might not be practical, or even safe, but camera enforcement might be useful. Maybe this would actually be a place where drones could help with targeted enforcement without much civil liberties infringement.
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I am strongly in favor of red light and speeding camera enforcement, and I’m fine with it being a source of revenue.
Enabling people’s car addiction has come at a terrible cost to the city and its residents. Recouping some of those losses via red light cameras is fine by me
Enabling people’s car addiction has come at a terrible cost to the city and its residents. Recouping some of those losses via red light cameras is fine by me
Not trying to minimize, but this conversation about “downtown safety” is happening in some way in a lot of metropolitan areas.
Should we address concerns? obviously.
We should also let up on the idea that this issue is unique to STL or some how caused only by local dysfunction.
Chicago: https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/chi ... wn-crimes/
Booming Austin: https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/police- ... y-morning/
Jacksonville: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/202 ... -the-area/
Salt Lake City: https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/sa ... -downtown/
Nashville: https://www.wkrn.com/news/broadway-nash ... -broadway/
Denver: https://kdvr.com/news/problem-solvers/c ... ound-area/
Philadelphia: https://philadelphiaweekly.com/i-just-w ... feel-safe/
Should we address concerns? obviously.
We should also let up on the idea that this issue is unique to STL or some how caused only by local dysfunction.
Chicago: https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/chi ... wn-crimes/
Booming Austin: https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/police- ... y-morning/
Jacksonville: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/202 ... -the-area/
Salt Lake City: https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/sa ... -downtown/
Nashville: https://www.wkrn.com/news/broadway-nash ... -broadway/
Denver: https://kdvr.com/news/problem-solvers/c ... ound-area/
Philadelphia: https://philadelphiaweekly.com/i-just-w ... feel-safe/
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^This. 1,000%.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Sep 14, 2021I am strongly in favor of red light and speeding camera enforcement, and I’m fine with it being a source of revenue.
Enabling people’s car addiction has come at a terrible cost to the city and its residents. Recouping some of those losses via red light cameras is fine by me
Even with the MO Supreme Court striking down some of the red light camera ordinances as they required drivers to prove their innocence (which I get why they were struck down based on that), change the ordinances instead to follow their guidance and have a prosecutor prove that the defendant was the driver. At least it gives prosecutors and police the ability to fine the most egregious drivers rather than removing cameras totally.
Agree with Bella.
I was onboard with red light cameras the first time that they were introduced (like a decade ago). While it needs to be acknowledged that there could be an increase in rear end accidents at intersections with red light cameras, I think that's a safer alternative than the t-bone or head-on accidents that are possible with people running lights. Grand at Arsenal is a particularly good example of this. You sometimes have to wait 5 seconds or more after the arrow turns green to turn north onto Grand due to people running the red on Grand. The signal is practically turning yellow already before you have even started to accelerate as the first car on the line.
Bring back red light cameras, speeding cameras, expired tag cameras... All of them. There will undoubtedly be those who do not pay the tickets or are driving stolen cars or that lack plates and still ignore the rules of the road. Still, I think cameras would be beneficial in making some people "better" drivers and provide funding for expanding non-car centric forms of transportation or road alterations that discourage the use of cars.
I was onboard with red light cameras the first time that they were introduced (like a decade ago). While it needs to be acknowledged that there could be an increase in rear end accidents at intersections with red light cameras, I think that's a safer alternative than the t-bone or head-on accidents that are possible with people running lights. Grand at Arsenal is a particularly good example of this. You sometimes have to wait 5 seconds or more after the arrow turns green to turn north onto Grand due to people running the red on Grand. The signal is practically turning yellow already before you have even started to accelerate as the first car on the line.
Bring back red light cameras, speeding cameras, expired tag cameras... All of them. There will undoubtedly be those who do not pay the tickets or are driving stolen cars or that lack plates and still ignore the rules of the road. Still, I think cameras would be beneficial in making some people "better" drivers and provide funding for expanding non-car centric forms of transportation or road alterations that discourage the use of cars.
I'm not sure anything has changed with regards to the homeless.
They've just been relocated to an area with less monied interests affected. This shuffle has been ongoing for years but suddenly became a problem because Square decided it was.
Perhaps the homeless don't sleep across from city hall, but that's largely moot since there's nobody walking past at night to care either way.
They're still out there doing drugs and fighting all day. But this predates the mayor.
They've just been relocated to an area with less monied interests affected. This shuffle has been ongoing for years but suddenly became a problem because Square decided it was.
Perhaps the homeless don't sleep across from city hall, but that's largely moot since there's nobody walking past at night to care either way.
They're still out there doing drugs and fighting all day. But this predates the mayor.
Strongly oppose red light cameras and I do not own a vehicle or even have a drivers license. Increased observation by the state is not the solution.
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Contracting out the state's policing functions to private companies doesn't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy either.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 15, 2021It’s observation by a private company and those already know your day to day schedule already.Ebsy wrote: ↑Sep 15, 2021Strongly oppose red light cameras and I do not own a vehicle or even have a drivers license. Increased observation by the state is not the solution.
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If red light cameras would help reduce people from driving like maniacs, reducing traffic accidents, more could be alive to feel warm and fuzzy.
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From a sociological perspective, there's so much "stuff" on all of the stoplights already these days... you could realistically just put loud signage up at high volume locations (off ramps) that "the City of STL has implemented a red-light camera program in this area, please drive safe" across the entire city, and you could just put real cameras up at problem intersections.
You could even be transparent and put a map online (link on the signage) of where the actual ones are, and still less than .0001% of the population would actually check it... (the idea/goal being, people drive safer when they think they at risk for a ticket)
You could even be transparent and put a map online (link on the signage) of where the actual ones are, and still less than .0001% of the population would actually check it... (the idea/goal being, people drive safer when they think they at risk for a ticket)
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Red light/speeding cameras also pose two positive, yet unintended, externalities. First, they allow public safety resources earmarked for monitoring motorists to be freed up and spent on detective, dispatchers, social workers, etc and others who intervene in and/or solve the serious crimes that most concern citizens. Second, I think a lot of distrust between people and police can be linked to traffic interactions.
Example: Someone is pulled over for running a red. Turns out they’re driving on a suspended license. In a moment of panic, the driver flees, and is now a Class E felon. Police pursue. Best case scenario: the police effectuate peaceful-ish pursuit and arrest that results in a felony conviction. Defending the charge and the loss of a wage earner creates more instability and poverty in the family of the driver, thus perpetuating the cycle. Worst case scenario: a civilian death resulting from the chase or the use of lethal force. In either case trust in policing decays.
These outcomes are significantly mitigated by camera enforcement.
Example: Someone is pulled over for running a red. Turns out they’re driving on a suspended license. In a moment of panic, the driver flees, and is now a Class E felon. Police pursue. Best case scenario: the police effectuate peaceful-ish pursuit and arrest that results in a felony conviction. Defending the charge and the loss of a wage earner creates more instability and poverty in the family of the driver, thus perpetuating the cycle. Worst case scenario: a civilian death resulting from the chase or the use of lethal force. In either case trust in policing decays.
These outcomes are significantly mitigated by camera enforcement.
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^Being poor and consistently operating a motor vehicle like an idiot are correlated, just not in the direction you want them to be.
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True, but we don't need to spend vital public safety resources making a bad situation worse, which is the current sopnewstl2020 wrote: ↑Sep 16, 2021^Being poor and consistently operating a motor vehicle like an idiot are correlated, just not in the direction you want them to be.
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8 shot and killed over weekend in City. 14 others just shot.
https://www.kmov.com/news/8-killed-12-i ... _id=990844
https://www.kmov.com/news/8-killed-12-i ... _id=990844
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Gov Hillbilly admits maybe the new Wild West gun law is causing problems
https://www.kmov.com/news/parson-acknow ... a93c7.html
https://www.kmov.com/news/parson-acknow ... a93c7.html
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^Imagine if there were bounties on police departments in Missouri over cooperation on law enforcement with the Federal government, in the same manner that Texas has bounties on those peripherally involved with abortions after the sixth week.
Think that'd get Jefferson City to change their minds on this stupid law?
Think that'd get Jefferson City to change their minds on this stupid law?