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PostNov 06, 2018#26

bwcrow1s wrote:
Nov 06, 2018
Since the last gas tax increase, haven't both 364 and 370 been constructed?

And they're on the hot seat to expand I-70 past Wentzville. St. Charles is going to kick and scream until it happens.

Why are tolls so scary? How many large cities have them? A sh*t ton?

There has never ever been a successful conversion of a "free road" to a toll road, you either toll on day 1 of the road or you don't.

364/370 all of that was planned in the 80s.
look at the modot long range plan there is no system expansion at all from 2015-2045

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PostNov 06, 2018#27

These are on the Investment Priorities list in Connected2045. Are they no longer?
2016-2025
I-70 (Partial) Rehabilitate pavement, improve
interchanges, add lanes St. Charles MO 94 to MO 370 $30

David Hoekel Parkway Phases 1 and 2 Construct new road St. Charles Peine Rd. to MO P; Interstate
Dr. to Meyer Rd. $54

2026-2035
I-70 (Partial) Rehabilitate pavement, improve interchanges, add lanes
St. Charles MO 94 to MO 370 $100

I-270 Rehabilitate pavement and bridges; add capacity, modify interchanges and outer roads St. Louis H to Lilac $163

I-64 Add capacity St. Charles MO K to I-70 $54
David Hoekel Parkway Phases 3 and 4 Construct new road St. Charles
Peine Rd. to Meyer Rd. $27

2036-2045
I-270 Improve corridor, add capacity St. Louis County MO 100 to MO 30 $203

I-55 Rehabilitate pavement and bridges, add capacity, improve
interchanges Jefferson MO Z to US 67 $278

David Hoekel Parkway Phase 5 Construct new road St. Charles Jackson Rd to Interstate Dr.

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PostNov 06, 2018#28

MoDOT policy of no system expansion is still in place, if places like St.Charles want the David Hoekel Parkway projects they would have to pay for it and also pay for the first 10 years of maintenance

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PostNov 06, 2018#29

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 06, 2018
none of this will go towards system expansion and MoDOT hasnt expanded the system in decades (minus route N in St.Charles)
well somebody should tell that to St. Charles County Executive Steve Ehlmann b/c it certainly sounds like he's expecting Prop D to fund St. Charles' expansion projects:

On nine out of the last 14 projects on the state system in St. Charles County, MoDOT has paid only 40 percent of the cost, while the remainder has been financed by the county, our cities and federal money the county and cities have been able to procure. We cannot continue to finance the state transportation system at the expense of county and municipal systems.
...
That is necessary to maintain the existing system throughout the state and to expand the system to meet the needs of new businesses and residents in the St. Louis region.
i'd feel much more confident in MoDOT's maintenance-only promise if it were legislated.

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PostNov 06, 2018#30

Does the policy of no system expansion include not adding lanes?

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PostNov 06, 2018#31

quincunx wrote:
Nov 06, 2018
Does the policy of no system expansion include not adding lanes?
i think the only place in St.Louis where that would be discussed is the 270 straight away in west county. There is one agency that can overwrite any modot policy or decision and thats East West Gateway, elect people to position that sit on that board and you can have total control of transportation decision making.

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PostDec 04, 2020#32

Here they come again

Stltoday - Will third time be the charm? Missouri lawmakers may ask voters to raise gas tax in 2021

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 1fac2.html

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PostDec 05, 2020#33

I doubt this would pass a third time around. 

If people here were serious about getting this passed, it would be a little bit more than a 10 cent increase and would include some money for the transit systems in the state. We could also maybe explore the path of having higher gas taxes in the urban areas to fund transit and road improvements while outstate meets up to 27 cents (under the latest plan). This way, more revenue is generated to maintain roads, but St. Louis and Kansas City can pursue transit expansion and cities like Springfield and Columbia can focus on maintaining their bus systems. But this would have to be regional plan because if St. Louis City and County had, for example, a 40 cent gas tax (with 27 going to the State and 13 going towards transit and other stuff), and St. Charles County and Jefferson County had a 27 cent, people would be going there to get gas if they live close enough. I understand that the City and County surely already have their own gas taxes, but they could be higher in the end.

And if that's not a good idea, we could explore other taxes on items that sell well (like alcohol/liquor, cigarettes). Maybe even legalize recreational marijuana and tax that.

I will admit that I have part of that "Taxation is Theft" bit in me. But in this case, taxes are necessary to maintain the roads, but I also want better transit systems. They're not going to be 100% perfect because we don't have the population or density to support it, but we can at least make huge improvements in the system. As far as roads go, we have to maintain them. We cannot ignore the rural roads or not replace bridges because car culture is seen as "evil" by many. Everyone knows that cars are a huge piece of our culture and way of life here. That's not going to change as long as rural communities exist (which they always will). 

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PostDec 15, 2020#34

^Taxation is not theft. If we want to live in a civil society, we have to pay taxes to fund that. People will not fund society out of the goodness of their own heart for many reasons, so we have to have mandatory taxes with penalties for non-payment. But we're getting off track.

The gas tax in Missouri can only be used for roads and highways in Missouri due to a short-sighted constitutional amendment years ago. The idea was to prevent the legislature from taking gas tax money for other things, but it is so strict that it doesn't even allow for funding mass-transit.

Fuel taxes in Missouri need to be raised, but the most likely people to vote no are rural voters...

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PostMar 10, 2021#35

Stltoday - Gas tax increase with rebate option slams into wall of opposition in Missouri Senate

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... c7f5b.html

PostMar 10, 2021#36

Stltoday - Gas tax hike wins initial vote in Missouri Senate

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... c80c6.html

PostMar 10, 2021#37

The gas tax proposal includes an option allowing motorists to receive a 100% rebate on new taxes paid if the save their receipts for fuel purchases. Only a fraction of motorists are expected to take advantage of the rebate.
So the more fuel you use, the more incentive you have to go to the trouble of getting the rebate. And the more capacity you have to go to the trouble, the more likely you'll do it. Who benefits?

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PostMar 10, 2021#38

quincunx wrote:
Mar 10, 2021
The gas tax proposal includes an option allowing motorists to receive a 100% rebate on new taxes paid if the save their receipts for fuel purchases. Only a fraction of motorists are expected to take advantage of the rebate.
So the more fuel you use, the more incentive you have to go to the trouble of getting the rebate. And the more capacity you have to go to the trouble, the more likely you'll do it. Who benefits?

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PostMar 10, 2021#39

Is the rebate available for trucks?

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PostMar 10, 2021#40

No rebate for you!
Under the act, the fees for alternative fuel decals are increased by 20% per year for a period of 5 years, except that the fee for vehicles in excess of 36,000 pounds is increased by 10% per year for a period of 5 years, and the fee for temporary decals is not modified. (Section 142.869.2).
https://www.senate.mo.gov/21info/BTS_We ... D=54298589

PostMar 10, 2021#41

BellaVilla wrote:
Mar 10, 2021
Is the rebate available for trucks?
Appears so
Motor fuel used for propelling highway vehicles shall be exempt from the additional tax, and an exemption and refund may be claimed by the taxpayer if the tax has been paid and no refund has been previously issued, provided that the taxpayer applies for the exemption and refund as provided in the act. (Section 142.822.1).

PostMay 12, 2021#42

Uh


PostMay 12, 2021#43

Stltoday - Debate over raising Missouri's gas tax going down to the wire as lawmakers face Friday deadline
In addition to boosting the per-gallon tax to 29.5 cents, up from the current 17, the measure includes a provision increasing annual fees on electric vehicles by 20% per year over a five-year period. And, the plan would create a task force to study the impact electric vehicles have on the state’s transportation system.
The legislation also includes a rebate program: Drivers could save their gas purchase receipts and apply for compensation once per year.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... caca8.html

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PostMay 12, 2021#44

Passed. 
  • 104 votes yes. 
  • 52 votes no.
  • 6 didn't vote.
And we'll still have cheaper gas than Illinois, so we reap the benefits of some Illinoisans getting cheaper gas and cigarettes here. Comments about Illinois aside, I personally hope this means that our roads and bridges can be improved. That needs to be the main priority right now. I see roadwork whenever I drive on the highways throughout the state, but there are still highways, and state maintained roads, that need improvements. Hopefully this gas tax increase helps fund those improvements first over other projects.


And as far as electric cars and charging stations for those are concerned, we need to start planning ahead now. Surely some of the new gas stations can be retrofitted to include electric car chargers, but if not, they need to be mandated to include a minimum number of hookups for the future. Right now though would be a decent time to look into this but the charging technology isn't there yet to charge cars fast enough to make them a decent alternative for people who do a lot of driving and traveling across the country and state. Not everyone has a Tesla super charger that can charge a car in 30 minutes or so. 

Imagine the wait times if the technology doesn't improve to charge cars in a faster time frame. Or imagine how large charging stations would have to be to support all the travelers and their electric cars. It's going to be complicated, but we can start making moves now so when the technology gets up there, present-day gas stations can start including, and converting to, electric car charging stations.

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PostMay 12, 2021#45

Maybe they should concentrate on some kind of while-you-wait battery switch-out. You know, like the old stagecoach system used to switch-out horses. 

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PostMay 12, 2021#46

Or we could concentrate on getting around by other means seomtimes rather than coercing so much driving for everything.
This new money comes with no reform. They added 8,000 lane-miles to the state's liabilities since the last gas tax increase in 1996. Will they dig the hole deeper again? 
This increase doesn't even make up for the inflation erosion since 1996. And it will be eroded by inflation again.
We run the system like an unfunded pension system- promises are made, liabilities taken on, people count on them, become dependent on them, no money is set aside to meet them. Imagine if with each new road/bridge money had to be saved to pay for the predictable maintenance and replacement? But that would mean less could have been built or taxes would have had to be higher, non-starter.

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PostMay 12, 2021#47

chriss752 wrote:
May 12, 2021
And as far as electric cars and charging stations for those are concerned, we need to start planning ahead now
MoLeg passing pro electric auto infrastructure legislation 😂 good one!!!  :)

BTW, Jason Rosenbaum is wearing what appears to be a flak jacket in his Twitter photo.  I guess it makes sense being a public radio journalist reporting on MoLeg :)

Don't mind me.  Probably had too much coffee.

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PostMay 12, 2021#48

framer wrote:
May 12, 2021
Maybe they should concentrate on some kind of while-you-wait battery switch-out. You know, like the old stagecoach system used to switch-out horses. 
i recently heard that's not even possible with Teslas because the batteries are welded to the frame, which also makes it very difficult and expensive to repair/replace them after traffic-violence-related damage.

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PostMay 12, 2021#49

You have to wonder if MO can even be remotely competitive on state level for growth at this point when the MOleg has dug such a deep hole between low gas & cig taxes, does its best to keep people uninsured and refuses to invest nearly enough in education.   Hopefully St Louis can invest the Covid dollars wisely from basic infrastructure needs (streets, sidewalks & fleet upgrades), workforce training, and public safety because you know where it is not coming from

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PostMay 12, 2021#50

I really wish there was a way for St. Louis to keep its local tax dollars and keep them from going toward new rural roads in Nowhere, Missouri. 

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