urbanSTL

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Dec 22, 2020

I don't think AA killed the hub because we were short on gates, amenities, hold areas . . . I think they killed it because we were short on passengers, and especially business passengers. 

Got to differ with you here. The biggest factor in AA's shuttering of the Lambert hub was that it was redundant. 

AA acquired TWA in April 2001, and with the TWA acquisition came the STL TWA hub. But, AA already had two hubs in the central US: DFW and ORD. They were never going to get rid of DFW, as AA is based in Dallas. ORD was already established for AA, and Chicago's a bigger city than Saint Louis. Plus, I'm pretty sure DFW and ORD were 2 of the 3 busiest airports in the US at the time (along with ATL, with its Delta hub). Then, 5 months after their TWA acquisition, was September 11, 2001, and the nightmares of that day (with 2 AA planes lost that day), all flights grounded, and the industry's future left uncertain. TWA was still flying under its own tail into December 2001. Amidst all of this, AA saw their maintaining 3 central US hubs being redundant. While I hate to say this, it really made strategic sense for them to de-hub STL, especially as it was not originally an AA hub. STL became a regional service airport in November 2003, going from 800 daily flights to only 200, and was officially de-hubbed as that in September 2009. 

There has been some talk by certain C-Suite leadership at AA that they maybe de-hubbed STL too much, that the airline could benefit from increased capacities here. Plus, ORD remains most dedicated to UA, which is HQ'd in Chicago. While I don't think AA would dump their ORD hub for STL, it's a valid consideration; they could see value being the biggest fish in a medium-sized pond rather than being the second-biggest fish in a large pond (and especially one that freezes every winter). 

Two other factors to consider... 
1. STL was a great hub airport, in that it served as a connecting airport. It operated as a hub not for the population of Metro STL but as a base of operations. The new runway was built with this wholly in mind*. STL definitely has excess capacities today. 
* The higher aeronautical costs (takeoffs, landings, and gating) to pay for the new runway, which was built to further the efficacies of the hub operating here, inadvertently led to the hub being taken away. That's irony. 
2. The decrease in Saint Louis' corporate HQ strength was in no small part an effect of the de-hubbing of STL. Rather, the decrease in relative strength of the region as a HQ location for Fortune 500 companies correlates to the loss of STL's hub. We absolutely weren't short on business passengers prior to the airport's loss of hub status. Let's make sure not to put the cart before the horse here. 

Symphonic: I dig what you're saying. Cheers to that. Concurrently, I do think that the biggest detriment to STL getting larger corporations to locate new operations here is our airport's lack of a major carrier besides SWA. If we still had somewhere between 200 and 800 flights here, I bet we'd see more corporate growth. 

For consideration... Clayco indicated that their relocation to Chicago was in part driven by ORD. Chicago also was the recipient of two major corporate relocations from IL: Caterpillar (Peoria) and Archer-Daniels-Midland (Decatur). While Saint Louis competed with Chicago for both of these, I have to think a significant part of their reasons to choose Chicago was ORD. And, I bet Centene's liking of Charlotte wouldn't be so strong if not for CLT's continued operation as a "fortress hub" for AA (after their USAir acquisition). I'm not stating there's direct causation, but it is definitely an ancillary factor. 

Wabash: You're quite right here. The central US is severely lacking in airport hubs today. The "hub and spoke" model has overwhelmingly benefitted the coasts, leaving most airports from the Appalachians to the Rockies with excess capacities. 

In today’s NY Times:
Air cargo construction is booming, thanks to Amazon
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/busi ... e=Homepage

What is St. Louis doing wrong that Cincinnati is doing right in terms of attracting all these cargo operations? St. Louis is bigger, more centrally-located and better connected via rail and interstates than Cincy, yet CVG is pouncing Lambert as a cargo hub. And it’s hardly just Amazon that has chosen Cincinnati- as a business owner who orders stock apparel on a daily basis, I can tell you first hand that the majority of our vendors have major warehouse facilities in Cincinnati. St. Louis, in the center of the country, does not. WHY? To me, this seems like a low-hanging fruit and STL seems to be asleep at the wheel. Really discouraging that we seem to be completely passed over amidst a burgeoning, rapidly-expanding cargo industry.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Jan 17, 2021

^^ I thought this was talked about here recently...didn’t Cincinnati and Ohio give Amazon a sh*t load of subsidies for this?  Free handouts and subsidies are how you get that company’s attention.

Just looked.  $40 million in state and local incentives and an additional $5 million from the airport itself.  There’s your answer.

^ I always find it funny listening to the old guys like McClellan blame St. Louis for corporate relocations and mergers...like it’s the city’s fault the feds have been destroying anti-trust protections since the Reagan years. And then when a STL companies acquires a company from another city...crickets. Lol.

Whatever is behind it, it seems like their gamble paid off. Cincinnati has succeeded in establishing itself as a premiere cargo center, and is getting all the buzz that goes along with it. Most industries don’t need two Midwest freight hubs, so do you think St. Louis’s efforts at this point are rather futile? It seems apparent that our ship has already sailed (pun intended).

^Thanks for talking me off the ledge! By “buzz” I’m also referring to the growth of distribution warehouses that have popped up in Cincinnati over the last few years. But I agree with your points and as most of you know, I’ll never stop believing in this city.