^To that point, building pedestrian and cyclist access across the tracks with a bridge solely for that would make the most sense. That makes Metrolink accessible to the people and mode of transport most likely to be going to that station. No reason to spend the money for motorized access. Turn a transit adjacent area with no simple direct access to said transit into a not necessarily TOD area, but at least accessible with a much more direct walk to the nearby station.
Right now, it gets you nothing. Everyone seems to be hung up on looking at this "industrial area" as it is now, and not as it will be, and could be. Maybe in a decade, the "nearest commercial" won't be on the other side of 40, but at the Armory...? Or maybe eventually they will find the funds for a direct greenway connection between the Armory and City Foundry?symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2020I'd swear I've said this before, but I'm just not sure what connecting Theresa across the tracks really gets you. You end up in a fairly industrial area and you're still cut off from the nearest commercial by 40. Thanks to the tangle of ramps where the end of the elevated structure meets Market and Forest Park I think you probably have to completely revamp that interchange before you can even really start to talk about anything else. Maybe it's just time to decommission every interstate inside 270 and start downgrading them and turning them into slower, more general access roads. But until you can tear up some of the worst concrete offenses . . . just build stairs from Gratiot up to Grand and call it a day. That gets you better pedestrian access to most things fairly cheaply. And those of us with a stick up our transmission who insist on driving can afford to go a few blocks out of our way.
No, the highway and railyard aren't going anywhere any time soon, but they aren't insurmountable problems. There are many paths and solutions under or over them. And at least part of that whole Market/Grand/FPA/Compton/I-64 mess will be rebuilt eventually, removing some of those awkward highway ramps and freeing up additional connections and land for development.
The question is how this whole collection of cut off development areas in and around Mill Creek Valley will work a couple decades from now. As I assume we all want to see a dozen Mill Creek Flats-type developments in this area, with filled-out Steelcote, Armory and Iron Hill quadrants, in a real neighborhood, and that neighborhood connected to both SLU campuses, Cortex, Foundry, The Grove, Metro, The Brickline / green space, etc.; then how are people who live and work here going to move back and forth between all these areas without going half a mile out of their way every time, or worse, getting in their cars and driving a mile and parking in a garage or lot...
There is no silver bullet that will connect all, or even most, of these areas. It will require an all-of-the-above approach, including an at-grade Theresa crossing to connect the Steelcote quadrant directly to Metro and, hopefully, The Brickline greenway, which in turn will be connected to all of the other areas.
The question is what is the cost of a pedestrian and ADA-compliant bridge over the railyard and Metro tracks, versus an at-grade crossing which could also be used for "motorized access"?MattnSTL wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2020^To that point, building pedestrian and cyclist access across the tracks with a bridge solely for that would make the most sense. That makes Metrolink accessible to the people and mode of transport most likely to be going to that station. No reason to spend the money for motorized access. Turn a transit adjacent area with no simple direct access to said transit into a not necessarily TOD area, but at least accessible with a much more direct walk to the nearby station.
It's all in SLU's redevelopment area. I believe they have the authority to impose such a district, but seem to have little inclination towards pedestrian improvements beyond the sidewalks and lawnscaping on their two campuses.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 17, 2020It would largely take a taxing district to cover all of the ped improvements needed, including a bridge. I think we need a little more residential development in this immediate area to convince property owners to support a taxing district.
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I feel like there are two conversations. How will these work twenty years from now is one. How will they work now is another. It's important to think ahead, but we also have to recognize the present situation if we want Steelcote to succeed. If it fails now then twenty years from now will be a pretty dark conversation. So we need to ask "what can we as a city do to make development in this area more attractive right now." The industrial area could well be a candidate for redevelopment at some point in the future, but it's not as though the industry that's there is un-useful. We need bus barns, refrigerated warehouses, and construction suppliers. And putting in a grade crossing is a conversation we can revisit if and when those industries move.urbanitas wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2020Right now, it gets you nothing. Everyone seems to be hung up on looking at this "industrial area" as it is now, and not as it will be, and could be. Maybe in a decade, the "nearest commercial" won't be on the other side of 40, but at the Armory...? Or maybe eventually they will find the funds for a direct greenway connection between the Armory and City Foundry?
No, the highway and railyard aren't going anywhere any time soon, but they aren't insurmountable problems. There are many paths and solutions under or over them. And at least part of that whole Market/Grand/FPA/Compton/I-64 mess will be rebuilt eventually, removing some of those awkward highway ramps and freeing up additional connections and land for development.
The question is how this whole collection of cut off development areas in and around Mill Creek Valley will work a couple decades from now. As I assume we all want to see a dozen Mill Creek Flats-type developments in this area, with filled-out Steelcote, Armory and Iron Hill quadrants, in a real neighborhood, and that neighborhood connected to both SLU campuses, Cortex, Foundry, The Grove, Metro, The Brickline / green space, etc.; then how are people who live and work here going to move back and forth between all these areas without going half a mile out of their way every time, or worse, getting in their cars and driving a mile and parking in a garage or lot...
There is no silver bullet that will connect all, or even most, of these areas. It will require an all-of-the-above approach, including an at-grade Theresa crossing to connect the Steelcote quadrant directly to Metro and, hopefully, The Brickline greenway, which in turn will be connected to all of the other areas.
In the near term we need to connect things that are there now or that will be there in the immediate future. The Chouteau Greenway can absolutely be a part of that. And connecting Steelcote to Metrolink, the Chouteau Greenway, and the Armory should absolutely be a priority. A direct pedestrian crossing at Theresa could be one way to do that, but it's certainly not the only way, nor even necessarily the best way. A stairway connecting Gratiot to Grand would also serve the same purpose. And the city could do that right now without consulting anyone else. That's just a sidewalk improvement, albeit a fancy one. Boom. You have a pedestrian connection to the Metrolink station, to Grand, to SLU, to the Chouteau Greenway . . . Add to that some pedestrian and station improvements. (And I'd love to find some way to make the stairs at the station more pleasant.) You could get all of that done more quickly and more cheaply than negotiating with the railroads.
Best of all? It doesn't prevent you from building a crossing at Theresa later should the need arise. The two can work well together. They can compliment one another. A sidewalk on one side of the street doesn't prevent building one on the other side. I'm trying to suggest you build a sidewalk on the side that has houses now. Spend the money there first. Get it done. Worry about the other side next year when the budget isn't so tight and when, maybe, there will be houses under construction on the other side. I'm not saying don't ever cross Theresa. I'm asking why we aren't hooking Gratiot to Grand right now. This just seems like a dead obvious first step to me. It solves a lot of problems quickly.
Came across this 3D sketch up of the Mill Creek Flats buildings and it's quite a bit larger than I remember. I don't recall the "L" shape. I tried going back and looking at the renderings but my browser isn't displaying them. Either way, looking forward to seeing this one start to rise.
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Yea, it has been an L shape since day one.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Nov 26, 2020Came across this 3D sketch up of the Mill Creek Flats buildings and it's quite a bit larger than I remember. I don't recall the "L" shape. I tried going back and looking at the renderings but my browser isn't displaying them. Either way, looking forward to seeing this one start to rise.
Anyways, foundation drill is on site and the site is now fenced in. By the way, this phase of the development will see power lines buried. Or at least that's what I have been told.
^ Solid. What's the cost difference between above-ground and underground lines? I'm curious because Ameren has been working in my neck of the woods for weeks digging, erecting, transferring, etc. only to put new thicker, taller poles for above-ground. And it looks like they still have a ways to go.
Looking forward to seeing this development come along.
Looking forward to seeing this development come along.
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This might be old news but the For Sale Hilliker sign at Chouteau and Theresa has a sold mark over it.
Nope, not old news. I didn't know it was for sale. SLU bought that vacant lot and the Butler's Pantry building on 10/23/20, according to the property database. So, SLU owns that whole block now.pattimagee wrote: ↑Dec 10, 2020This might be old news but the For Sale Hilliker sign at Chouteau and Theresa has a sold mark over it.
Which means...there's another building on the demo watch list (900 S. Theresa). I don't see any demo permits yet, but...SLU.
That would be a real shame. This building is absolutely perfect for conversion to 5 or 6 townhouse apartments. Imagine two-level units facing Theresa, and private rooftop garden patios on the single-story building, with private garage and/or WFH office space below on the ground floor...
View of the building from Steelcote.
Nice! Like someone said in that Twitter thread hopefully it’s just a placeholder until a larger more urban store can be built later on (maybe in Iron Hill?)...but I won’t hold my breath. Either way a nice addition for those that live nearby.
I expect, and bet, Iron Hill will have something bigger and better than a Walgreens Community store.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021Nice! Like someone said in that Twitter thread hopefully it’s just a placeholder until a larger more urban store can be built later on (maybe in Iron Hill?)...but I won’t hold my breath. Either way a nice addition for those that live nearby.
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Haa. That was me. Was hoping they’d respond with a yes or no but... was a long shot question.
Are there City/Urban Targets that have a CVS Pharmacy included in them? Or is that only the big stores like Hampton?
Most Targets, including the urban ones, have CVSs. Although there's a pretty new tiny Target on 14th Street in the East Village that doesn't.
Discussed this in some other thread, maybe it was the thread for SLU's 395 acres of blight, but:Tim wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021
This parcel was listed for sale, along with all the surrounding parcels as a package deal (with different owners), a few years ago: Loopnet - 3511-3537 Chouteau Ave
3537 Chouteau is still for sale, separately. The total package was 2.5 acres, which would have been large enough for a full-blown Walgreens and then some. So, if they wanted a store here, either they missed out or the land was too pricey.
Walgreens already has a pharmacy on the SSM Med Center campus, so this renovation is likely all about getting a drive-thru up and running ASAP, but probably temporary until they get a sparkly new store built... somewhere in the area.
Yes, in fact that is one of the main features Target is pushing in their small urban express stores. They want to create a one-stop shopping and same-day pickup concept, as well as using such stores for same-day delivery order fulfillment (not really clear how that last bit would work).
CVS bought Target's prescription delivery service and all of their pharmacy operations in the US. Some of the pharmacies in smaller Target stores were closed - if there was a full service CVS nearby, for example - but most will remain. So essentially, Target is partnering with CVS to position itself to take on Amazon and Wal-Mart in the delivery wars while also growing their urban intersection presence.
Developer says that the parking garage pieces should start arriving in the next week or two.
Drone photos from today...
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Drone photos from today...
Parking garage assembly for the Mill Creek Flats is underway...
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Garage assembly complete. Some other work is being done now ahead of building the apartment floors. Some power lines were taken down too.
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You can start to see where Gratiot Street will be connected.
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You can start to see where Gratiot Street will be connected.
Steel work is now beginning.
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