urbanSTL

^ Oh, if only. This baby is permanent for sure, mark my words! This is classic Hayden. They're getting pretty far along with the project and this was JUST installed. It's had a wooden construction door for probably the past year. And, it appears there wasn't an awning here previously.

My bet is that they are installing an awning over the mechanism to shield it from the elements, so at least there's that?

I agree it looks installed outside when it should have been inside.  Why have an articulated door with rollers when you are just pulling it straight up anyway?  You could have used just a flat door.  Garage doors here are articulated to make the bend at the indoor ceiling to glide horizontally along the indoor ceiling out of the way.  (In California they can do a single piece door that kicks outward to turn horizontal.  But here we have snow, so it has to travel straight up before bending horizontal.).

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2019

^Is there any chance that's temporary? Having the cable, drum, track, and wheels exposed to the elements won't do wonders for their working life. Surely that can't be a permanent and intentional install. There's just no way. I can't even believe it would be a good idea from a security standpoint.

Edit: You can see hangers for an awning of some kind hanging down next to the thing on either side. This has to be temporary. It's got to be a construction entrance. They removed the awning and put in a temporary cheap door so they could get large equipment in and out of the building while keeping it sorta secure and heated.

100% that's the final install. Maybe they will put some kind of awning over it, but this was surely meant to be an interior install. They did it this way because the new structure they built for the new interior parking garage is basically at the top of the opening, so no space to have a vertical lift like they have now or a traditional 90 to go back into the space. They bought this door, realized it can't be installed on the interior, and instead installed it backwards. They didn't even stop to think to try something different, say, a sliding horizontal door. This was their solution to the problem, and its hilarious. 

^ LOL. I just can't. 

I laughed a good 10 minutes at the photo of that sh*tty job. Then I got angry. Why the hell would you do it this way? Can you not bring it into the actual building?

Oh my! I stand corrected. Sorry I tied to accuse this project of . . . oh . . . being reasonable. Yes, the . . . decorative awning thing is clearly off center. You can just look at the blocks if you think it's a trick of perspective. I absolutely cannot believe they just installed the world's worst accent feature around the world's ugliest door. That thing ain't opening for long. I can just picture the cables breaking from snow and salt and rain and dropping the door on some poor tenant's ride. "Holy fiberglass fanboy Batman!" *splat*

This is what happens when your downtown has no form based code or legitimate neighborhood association. Hard to blame Hayden when so much of St. Louis is governed so incompetently. He's just a typical developer trying to make a buck. When there is no standard, people cut corners. I'm really interested in seeing what the Design Downtown STL plan will do, because I've never been to a downtown that would allow something like this to be built.

Someone oughta submit this to the Home Inspection Nightmares segment on Ask This Old House.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/contest/su ... nightmares

A tough building to rehab, economically/structurally/aesthetically, all the way around.

But my GOD. This is hands down the worst rehab I have ever seen. Let's all hope there's significant additional work planned for the exterior. If not, there is no way these are going to lease for anything remotely close to market rate.

framer wrote: ↑

Nov 23, 2019

Someone oughta submit this to the Home Inspection Nightmares segment on Ask This Old House.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/contest/su ... nightmares

Don't give him any more ideas...

Funny story:

While I was taking this picture today, a gentleman hollers at me from on top of the dumpster (just out of frame to the right) and says "Hey, I saw your post on the internet!"

He comes over to chat for a few. We start to discuss the finer points of the project, including the garage door installation. It took me a minute to put the pieces together, but it was actually Brian Hayden!

While I didn't get a complete explanation regarding why a rolling garage door meant for exterior mounting couldn't be used (which seems like would have required a lot less work), he did kindly explain a few details about the project, including some of which you can start to see coming together in this picture.

They are constructing a stucco facade/containment thing to cover the equipment above the awning. The plan is to have it match the color and finish of the concrete panels. The awning itself extends to the left because there will be signage in this area, which should help balance things out. The door itself isn't meant to be opened and closed super frequently. Think of it more as a security gate that is closed at night or during other less busy times of the day. There will also be a gate arm like most parking garages have. This is the exit door only. The entrance (which is installed more traditionally) is located on Broadway. The entrance is located close to the La Salle building. Sorry, yes, there is a new curb cut as a result, but at least it's only one vehicle wide.

Lastly, Brian said there may be 2 potential retail spaces available. Other than the large one at the corner of 6th and Locust, the small spot at 511 Olive might be a future option as well. They intend to have the project fully wrapped up by Spring 2020.

All that said, I appreciate that Brian took time out of his busy day to talk about the project. He asked only that we give him a little bit of a break, or at least wait until he gets further along before we critique each little detail! All in all, he seemed to take our critiques in stride, and whether or not we agree with his methods all of the time, he does appear to be paying attention to what we have to say and is clearly passionate about what he is doing.

The end.

Thrilled to hear about retail. I am aware that the current retail situation downtown is pretty desolate as far as downtowns go but it's highly unlikely for that to remain the case long term. More projects should be doing this. Even if retail is a bad investment now, configuring the building for an easy future retail conversion is really important to the future of this area.

Was just about to post a picture of this new structure today stating that I was quick to jump to conclusions about the finished product, but I think I was still justified as the install of a backwards garage door is very unconventional. I walk past it every day multiple times so seeing the evolution of this building has been interesting to say the least. Glad he was able to talk to you. Id love to pick his brain about his decisions. I believe he is schooled as an engineer, which would make sense for some of his decisions.

That being said, I'm glad some developers look at this websites and at least read our concerns/comments/suggestions.

That makes it a bit better to know. I think the outside is improved with the new windows and balconies. Will be interesting to see how much more changes between now and the Spring 

All right, all right. I apologize. It was a head scratcher, but if I could keep my head it would probably be less of an irritation when I scratch at it. Very sorry Brian. I will assume you will prettify all of this and make it better. Please forgive.

. . . Yes, I need that "whoops my bad" signal to go with the turn signals on my car.

Also, Tim, thank you for taking the time to get Brian's input into the story and posting it here. Good on you, sir.

Great to hear about retail, especially in what currently is a mostly dead intersection downtown.

Now that construction has wrapped up (?) I have to say the Mercantile Library project looks like garbage. After all that they couldn’t even clean the facade? No polish whatsoever.


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Downtown Projects seem to end before they hit the sidewalk. The retail-level activation is so weak.

Not sure if people are relying on downtown to offer this kind of 24/7 active environment. Maybe it's more the packed-full amenities, you-can-have-it-all life. And that to me is exactly this project. 

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Nov 10, 2020

Now that construction has wrapped up (?) I have to say the Mercantile Library project looks like garbage. After all that they couldn’t even clean the facade? No polish whatsoever.  


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Coming from Brian Hayden, this is 100% exactly what I expected.