urbanSTL

I know the old shady oak was suppoed to be retrofitted into a sports bar before the developer ran into funding problems and scrapped the idea. I also know Max's in the Crowne Plaza (old radisson) hotel has NTN trivia and multiple tvs (dunno about sports packages).



Sports bars are hard in clayton/cwe because of may things. While there are a few hotels in both areas, there's not a critical mass that out of tourists that would cover the cost of getting a direct tv package for all sports (those packages cost a LOT more for a business to purchase than an individual).



Continuing on that thought, St. Louis is not a city of transfers. I'd say 75% of the people who live in the metro area were born here (unlike cities like Chicago, NY, Raleigh-Durham, Austin etc), which makes it unlikley anyone would really care about another team's games. Why would a sports bar buy an expensive cable package no one would use? Most people here just want to watch the local team play and that's it



Also, in clayton, all businesses have to make at least 50% of their revenue from food, which a pure sports bar would have a hard time doing. Yes, people would order wings/burgers, etc, but the mount of alcohol consumed would dwarf that, making life for the owners difficult.



And, I'm about to sound a little prejudiced here, but I would argue that a lot of the people in the CWE/clayton area aren't the beer swilling, wing contest eating type that would regularly (everyone goes to sports bars a few times in their life) frequent a place like that.



I know people will shout "I would!", but again, restauranters do a lot of market research before opening a place, and there's a distict demographic profile needed for sports bars. I would assume if one hsn't been built yet, there's a darn good reason for it.

trent wrote:It is a pretty poor market for sports bars.



Some notes I'd like to mention regarding that though...



Most sports bars tend to be a football watching place, with the ability to watch other sports as well. But football is king in most sports bars. Try watching a Cards game on an NFL sunday at the SportsZone. It's not a complaint at all, just an observation. St. Louis is a decent sports town, not a great one. It's a great baseball town, a solid basketball town, a decent hockey town, and a poor football town.



College football gets little play here because of the Mizzou/Illinois connection that have little to no history within the college football upper class. Pro Football was gone for years, and has a meager following at best (an example is how they are struggling to sell out games this year, despite a new regime, which would excite and ignite most other towns). So because STL has such a poor NFL/College football following, that hurts the sports bar market.



Baseball games you can watch at home every night. Basketball games you can watch at home four or five times a week for college, 7 days a week for NBA. Hockey is on all the time. Football gets play a couple days a week.



I love football. I wish Mizzou was on every weekend, and the Rams sold out like crazy (the way the Chiefs do in KC). But that's not the case.



You may dismiss my theory as crazy, but I'm sticking to it. STL needs to be a better football town, and more great sports bars will start opening.

I also agree with your logic and want to add something else. Bear with me here: I’m taking a big jump in logic.



Back in college I had a buddy who’s dad was big in the food distribution business. At his graduation party there were some family friends there; some who happened to be big dogs with Kraft and other who worked for some of the grocery chains. Somehow we got talking about BBQ sauce and how St. Louis is perceived to be some sort of BBQ headquarters on the order of Kansas City and Memphis. (How many times do you see St. Louis Short Ribs on a menu outside of here?)



It was explained to me this way: St. Louisans BBQ like mad at home. Kraft sells more BBQ sauce per capita in St. Louis far and away more than any other city. Plus St. Louis grocery stores have more square feet of shelf space of BBQ sauce than any other city.



Now that I think about it I have 4 open invitation options to watch football games at someone’s house on any given Sunday (when I’m not at the Dome watching the Rams). Plus 3 of those guys have the DirecTV Sunday Ticket package. One guy rolls out 2 19” TVs to sit next to his HDTV big screen and shows other games on that.



I just think part of the St. Louis culture is to gather at people’s homes instead of getting together at bars.



Plus I think you're dead on with your logic. The fact that both Mizzou and Illinois are fair at best in football doesn't help. Plus the many years of suffering with Bidwell's Big Red and the gap after that hasn't helped.

CWE is missing a solid sports bar so bad.  Where would anyone go to watch sports in the CWE now?

mjbais1489 wrote: ↑

Jul 21, 2020

CWE is missing a solid sports bar so bad.  Where would anyone go to watch sports in the CWE now?

Rosie's would be my choice. 

Tom's closed in CWE.
Some laments as to the lack of a sports bar in the CWE. There was Lester's where the Kingside Diner is now. 

jeff707 wrote: ↑

Sep 22, 2020

Tom's was a sh*tty bar (sorry!), but I would rather another, BETTER bar go in.  So much missed potential. Paper plates, and a "BUD LIGHT SPECIAL!!!!" vibe.  Bleh.  I agree that that the neighborhood needs a proper sports bar.  When I lived in the CWE 13-14 years ago, a buddy and I were looking for a place to watch some March Madness, and the best option was Tom's. We went in, ordered a bucket of beers and some food, and started watching (after we had to ask them to turn it to the tournament -WHAT?). After about 15 minutes, Thursday night karaoke started RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE TV SCREENS.  And they (I think?) advertised themselves as a sports bar (or at least gave off that vibe). 

Anyway.

I lived in Montclair on the Park (1 block west) from '05-'09 and would frequent Tom's on Sundays because they had NFL Sunday Ticket.  Usually impressed with their food and each TV had a different game and signs up to let you know what the next game on that particular TV would be.  I feel like patrons in there were a decent mix of young/regulars/randos.

Does Up-Down in any way function as a sports bar? I've never been in but walking by I noticed a lot of screens. Do they show sports on these or ???

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Sep 23, 2020

^^ Exactly the reasons I liked Tom’s.  Good crowd, good food, and, this is just my opinion, but I never got the sports bar vibe there.  Yeah you could catch a local game...but if people went there looking for a sports bar type experience, they went to the wrong spot.  Tom’s was just the perfect local *hole bar that every good neighborhood needs a couple of.

^ I thought I read somewhere they bought Tom’s specifically because it had a parking lot.  So I wouldn’t bet on that, at least not in the near future.

I was a regular at one time and very much viewed it as the place to watch a game.  This was when I was in college & after college (So like 2010 - 2015)

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2020

^ My buddy that lived in the CWE also made Tom’s his Sunday football hangout.  Didn’t say it wasn’t a good place to catch a game...just not really a place I got a sports bar vibe from.

The guy upthread seemed to think it was supposed to be THE place to catch a game down there...to me it seemed more like a local watering hole where you could catch some karaoke and yes, like any other bar, some sports too.  But different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Yeah the real sad part is I am not aware of a decent place like Tom's to catch a game anymore in the neighberhood.  My buddies and I tried 1764 when it was open- that was a pretty bad place to catch a game. iTap was solid, no food wasn't great but the bring in option helped.  Not really sure where we would go in the CWE now.  We have moved over to Dogtown for most sporting events now - some solid bars there for games.

mjbais1489 wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2020

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2020

^ My buddy that lived in the CWE also made Tom’s his Sunday football hangout.  Didn’t say it wasn’t a good place to catch a game...just not really a place I got a sports bar vibe from.

The guy upthread seemed to think it was supposed to be THE place to catch a game down there...to me it seemed more like a local watering hole where you could catch some karaoke and yes, like any other bar, some sports too.  But different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Yeah the real sad part is I am not aware of a decent place like Tom's to catch a game anymore in the neighberhood.  My buddies and I tried 1764 when it was open- that was a pretty bad place to catch a game. iTap was solid, no food wasn't great but the bring in option helped.  Not really sure where we would go in the CWE now.  We have moved over to Dogtown for most sporting events now - some solid bars there for games.

Who cares if there's a sports bars opening or closing in the CWE? Does it get any better than sidling up to the bar, ordering a Shock Top on draft and the Breadsticks with Alfredo Sauce, and spending your Sunday watching NFL games in the Applebee's @ The Parkway? 

wabash wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2020

Who cares if there's a sports bars opening or closing in the CWE? Does it get any better than sidling up to the bar, ordering a Shock Top on draft and the Breadsticks with Alfredo Sauce, and spending your Sunday watching NFL games in the Applebee's @ The Parkway? 

This seems like what a Cowboys or 49ers fan would do.

Look the place was fine.  But I never once said "hey, let's go to Tom's!".  I would grab a beer there on my walk to the metro to go to a baseball game.  It was most definitely not a sports bar, but it may have been the best place to watch sports in the CWE in the 2003-2008 window, and that was the problem: the best place to watch sports wasn't even a committed sports bar.  If they wouldn't commit to be a good sports bar (a la Flannery's or Center Ice, to use some contemporaneous examples), I would have preferred them to just go all-in on a serious beer or cocktail theme, or a hipster place or a restaurant/bar and grill (yes, that's how they actually billed themselves, but the food absolutely was not up to snuff on that front: Sysco frozen food thrown in a deep fryer, salads served on a paper plate, etc).  They had average food, a boring beer selection, bartenders that could only make two-ingredient cocktails, no good tvs to watch sports, karaoke, and a pretty indifferent/basic clientele (yes I realize that all makes me sound like a snob), but never excelled at anything. They straddled all these different concepts.  The thing they did have going for them was an incredible location. If wanted to go to an actual dive bar, I would go to Rosie's, or even better, 34 Club.  I would have killed to have iTap in the neighborhood when I was there.  Anyway, I know I am ranting. I know some people liked it, and that's fine.  

I've watched a game or two at the Mission Taco

What ever happened to Tom and Andy's?  I recall seeing pics of a renovation a few  years back but nothing since.

Tom's was the only current "neighborhood" bar/restaurant IMO, where you didn't have to dress up and can get reasonably priced food.  It was there for 40 years and what I'd consider a local staple.  We always joked if Tom's closed, we'd move.  We did, but coincidentally at the same time.  Love the CWE but it's lost some character.  

i'm not into sports bars at all but i really like Krueger's on Forsyth, which has kind-of a classic Cheers-y, sporortsbar-y feel.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2020

I know it's not CWE, but pre COVID we used to meet up with friends that live in the CWE at Field House. There aren't any places in CWE that I would describe as full sports bars. 

The worst was Bar Louie as they would never put game audio up: not even for World Series, Super Bowl or Blues playoff games. Must have been corporate rules they had to have music.

slightly off topic, but after I moved to STL I always assumed Bar Louie was a local thing (due to the name). I was extremely surprised to find one in Chicago.

I miss Lester’s. Nice place, Fantastic food, and a solid beer selection.