urbanSTL

I took a short (two hour) cruise on the German Rhine several years ago. Its quite a sight to see those long boats maneuvering through sharp curves and heavily populated areas. Of course, the Mississippi is much larger, and easily accommodates 1000' barge tows. I suspect the currents here are much, much stronger, though.

I wonder how they deal with passing through locks? Do passenger ships have the right-of-way over barges?

Here's an interesting article describing navigating a large barge tow through a set of locks (including "average" delays of 54 hours):

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5653695#.W8FGTWhKjIU

framer wrote: ↑

Oct 13, 2018

I wonder how they deal with passing through locks? Do passenger ships have the right-of-way over barges?

Here's an interesting article describing navigating a large barge tow through a set of locks (including "average" delays of 54 hours):

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5653695#.W8FGTWhKjIU

Wonder, I believe it is literally first come first serve and I can't see any tug/barge company giving up their spot in line.

The other aspect is that their is no fees on the lock system so no basis to pay premium to get first in line and or optimum times as is with the case of the Panama Canal where you can literally pay a premium to move up in line. The Feds due charge a separate fuel or excise tax for tug boats to help maintain the lock system but barely covers upkeep and some dredging here and there.

It is worth noting that the delay was, per the article, during a period where the primary lock at Chain of Rocks was out of service for repairs, thus forcing a ton and a half of barge traffic to break tows to use the smaller lock next door. I expect Viking could avoid the delays easily enough most of the time with smart scheduling. Stay away from the construction projects, especially during the harvest. Keep to the lower river during the troublesome times. (Pretty much the same thing every other cruise company did in the past, I think.)

Both Chain of Rocks and Alton already have the long locks, while still also having shorter secondary locks. Are the short locks typically in service in parallel with the longs ones? I could easily see that they could be useful for getting pleasure traffic out of the main locks to keep those free for freight traffic. And the short locks are big enough to fit anything shorter than a battleship, and even most of those until you get to WWII. Of course they'd hit every bridge north of Memphis. (And probably quite a few sand bars south of that.) But getting back on topic . . .

Assuming the Viking boat is less than 600' long (a fairly safe assumption) and the second lock is available then skipping the line might well be an option, at least as far north as Alton. And I believe there's a lot less traffic north of that most of the time anyway, since quite a lot comes off the Illinois River.

chaifetz10 wrote:If I were a developer / investor, I'd be looking at building a hotel near Alton's riverfront ASAP.  

Why in particular? It's a great place and I love visiting but is it growing?

^We should really be fighting to get ships berthed downtown on a more regular basis. When the Mississippi Queen or Delta Queen docks downtown it really adds a lot of interest, and more activity moving back and forth from the levee would be fantastic.

sc4mayor wrote:Not sure if this should be here or in a different thread.  But Alton inked a 5 year deal with American Cruise lines to dock ships there.  Could be a nice little boost for Downtown Alton.

https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... 220af.html

I get the impression this has to do more with off season, securing the cruise vessels when not in use over the winter season, upper river is frozen in spots .   Therefore, maybe not the tourism that people think.  Their is a reason why the cruise vessel appeared on Laclede's Landing and within easy access of the Arch Grounds.  Maybe someone with better knowledge can explain what the Alton deal is all about

I see Viking has finally invaded North America starting in 2022.  They have larger-style cruise ships planned for cruising the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway.  1) NY to Toronto, 2) Toronto to Detroit to Mackinac Island to Milwaukee, 3) Milwaukee to Mackinac Island to Georgian Bay to Thunder Bay, and 4) Milwaukee to Duluth to Thunder Bay.  I guess all plans to cruise the rivers of the US are dead.  

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Feb 27, 2020

I see Viking has finally invaded North America starting in 2022.  They have larger-style cruise ships planned for cruising the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway.  1) NY to Toronto, 2) Toronto to Detroit to Mackinac Island to Milwaukee, 3) Milwaukee to Mackinac Island to Georgian Bay to Thunder Bay, and 4) Milwaukee to Duluth to Thunder Bay.  I guess all plans to cruise the rivers of the US are dead.  

Why does this mean it is dead? I’d imagine they will want to expand and still do the Mississippi.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Feb 27, 2020

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Feb 27, 2020

I see Viking has finally invaded North America starting in 2022.  They have larger-style cruise ships planned for cruising the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway.  1) NY to Toronto, 2) Toronto to Detroit to Mackinac Island to Milwaukee, 3) Milwaukee to Mackinac Island to Georgian Bay to Thunder Bay, and 4) Milwaukee to Duluth to Thunder Bay.  I guess all plans to cruise the rivers of the US are dead.  

Why does this mean it is dead? I’d imagine they will want to expand and still do the Mississippi.

I was going by the fact that references to US River Cruises on the Viking web site that used to be there were removed a few years ago and have not returned.  On the other hand, I see now that Cruise Critic has a recent piece saying Viking contracted with Louisiana-based Edison Chouest to build, own and lease-back up to six US-based vessels by 2027.  The piece says they believe Viking will begin Mississippi River cruises in 2022.  In the mean time, American Cruise Lines has built and deployed a number of Viking-like boats on the Rivers to possibly corner that market away from Viking.  I would think both companies could survive on the US rivers, especially if Viking brings European tourists while American Cruise Line concentrates on US tourists.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5115/
 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/one-of-th ... -big-deal/

“Our guests are curious travelers, and they continue to tell us that the Mississippi is the river they most want to sail with us,” Hagen said in a statement accompanying the announcement. “The Mississippi River is closer to home for many of our guests, and no other waterway has played such an important role in America’s history, commerce and culture.”

The announcement is a huge development in the small world of U.S. river cruising, which currently is dominated by two small companies: American Cruise Lines and the American Queen Steamboat Company. Viking is known for quickly becoming a major force in the niches of cruising that it enters.

St. Louis = Miami of the Midwest.

I thought the Zoo was going to be one of the biggest attractions for the cruises?

aprice wrote: ↑

Mar 31, 2020

I thought the Zoo was going to be one of the biggest attractions for the cruises?

Viking has a free walking tour at every port that typically tours you around the port area. So on a Caribbean cruise, that would usually be walking around the colonial town area by the port and checking out a fort or shopping area. Here, the arch and union station are within walking distance of the "Port"

Great news. My wife and I did the Amsterdam to Basil Viking river cruise and are planning to do Nuremberg to Budapest. Europe long boats hold 190 people. This is twice that size.


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gary kreie wrote: ↑

Apr 01, 2020

Great news. My wife and I did the Amsterdam to Basil Viking river cruise and are planning to do Nuremberg to Budapest. Europe long boats hold 190 people. This is twice that size.


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That is a big boat.  Is that even going to fit under the Eads at high river stage, or do they only run the north cruises in late summer and fall?

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Apr 01, 2020

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Apr 01, 2020

Great news. My wife and I did the Amsterdam to Basil Viking river cruise and are planning to do Nuremberg to Budapest. Europe long boats hold 190 people. This is twice that size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a big boat.  Is that even going to fit under the Eads at high river stage, or do they only run the north cruises in late summer and fall?

If it’s one that starts here and goes north they could just find somewhere to load north of the bridge. For full river cruises that could be an issue.

Those prices are eye-watering....  STL-MPLS cruise sale prices run from $4599 up to $10,999 (plus airfare). 

I'm genuinely excited to see this come to fruition, if a bit surprised at the timing.  I really look forward to seeing this thing docked downtown.  And really, good for them if they can fill their cabins at that price point. But wow.

-RBB