urbanSTL

I'm surprised the NFL owners have still not spent a single hour discussing this during their meetings. 

Then again, it's no surprise that a group of billionaires think they're invincible. 

Since nobody else has mentioned it yet, I would just like to take this opportunity to observe that Los Angeles, with it's two NFL teams, will have exactly as many "home" teams in the playoffs as St. Louis this season...    

^This is the gift that keeps on giving.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2019

Since nobody else has mentioned it yet, I would just like to take this opportunity to observe that Los Angeles, with it's two NFL teams, will have exactly as many "home" teams in the playoffs as St. Louis this season...    

It's crazy how quickly teams can go up and down in the NFL - last year both the Rams and the Chargers had excellent teams, both teams made the playoffs and won at least one game each when they got there (with the Rams getting all the way to the Super Bowl), and this year... they're both utterly craptastic.

I do not think this case ever gets to trial.   The NFL does not want their dirty laundry  hung on the line.

I think this case will go to trial. 

St. Louis wants blood. I don't know what the settlement offer would have to be for St. Louis to stand down, but I imagine it'd probably have to be $2 billion or more. 

STL would take $250-500M right now.   It pays the Dome off, it pays for the Phase 1 and 2 of Convention center. 

$2 billion may be too high, but that seems too low. 

Like I said, I think this is going to court. Seems like St. Louis wants an all-or-nothing situation.

shadrach wrote: ↑

Nov 27, 2019

IF (big if) St. Louis can prove that Kroenke intended to move the team in 2010 and intentionally tanked the team, then don’t settle under any circumstances, go to trial and expose Kroenke as a manipulative fraud, vindicate the city and the fans. And then take the settlement.

After yesterday’s hearing, the Rams appealed to the Supreme Court again for arbitration. Desperation? Sounds like the city has a case.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.law360 ... es/1223600

Well they do have Jeff Fischer on video or taped stating he was shown the LA plans in 2012, there is that.

I think the STL attorney's have the Rams dead to right.  They would not have taken this case on contingency if they didn't believe so and the Rams and the league wouldn't be pulling out every legal stunt in the book.

Why do they think the Supreme Court has any interesting in deciding such a case.  They have bigger fish to fry.

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Nov 27, 2019

$2 billion may be too high, but that seems too low. 

Like I said, I think this is going to court. Seems like St. Louis wants an all-or-nothing situation.

If they get a $500 million offer on the table, this case will never make it to court. They would be insane not to take a settlement that size, and their legal counsel would tell them as much. Because regardless of what happens in a trial, even if they win, and win big, the whole thing is going to be tied up for years in appeals. $500 million now, or maybe more (but definitely not guaranteed) that they won't see a dime of before 2025 at the earliest?

^ I think it would be a very smart move to take a $500 million settlement offer if it gets on the table and pay off dome debt and at a minimum put the rest towards the convention center upgrades and expansion, maybe buy out the private garage tucked away in the mess.  I think it is very wish full thinking they get even close to $2 billion anytime soon and aldermen, county officials get to go on shopping spree 

Plus, I believe this is under a civil trial and therefore any judge still has the right to revise any jury awards at the end of day.   Similar to what is happening with Bayer as it relates to Round Up cases where I believe the judge(s) involved have already reduced a few of the eye popping damages that the jury has awarded downward significantly.  A judge might look at it and say; really, you got one of the most valuable pro baseball franchises, a pro hockey franchise and new MLS soccer stadium being built as we speak and somehow this move has resulted in damages in terms of billions where as dome debt and associated lost revenues event days equating to say 10-12 days a year can be calculated & would bring a settlement down to the $250-$500 million range 

Of course, I'm still on the believe that a long term play of NFL looking at moving Chargers to St. Louis if they could setup a sale to the Taylor family & new stadium under construction within 5-10 years as viable.   Maybe the settle on paying off dome debt in near term and offer St. Louis first crack at Chargers

I don't believe that the NFL is going to force Spanos to sell, and I don't believe Spanos is interested in St. Louis. 

Under the terms of the LA relocation, Spanos has very little incentive to move outside of hurt pride. He and the Chargers will receive a portion of the profits even if they fail to lift a single finger. 

The Chargers will never move to St. Louis. 

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe this is about monies past and future being paid or lost by the city, county and convention center I believe it is more about the 
league and Rams fraudulent activities.

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it: The NFL should award St. Louis a community-owned team ala the Green Bay Packers. 

I don't believe that the NFL is going to force Spanos to sell, and I don't believe Spanos is interested in St. Louis. 
 Under the terms of the LA relocation, Spanos has very little incentive to move outside of hurt pride. He and the Chargers will receive a portion of the profits even if they fail to lift a single finger. 

The Chargers will never move to St. Louis

While I agree, the Chargers to St. Louis seems like a long shot (never say never), these are facts:
-Spanos hates Kroenke
-The Chargers are failing in LA. Nobody cares about them and even if they win, I don't expect that to change
-Spanos can't stand being under Kroenke's rule.
-Kroenke hates the fact that Spanos is basically riding his coattails while stanK puts up all of the cash and is spending a significant
chunk of his fortune ( est. $6B) to build his palace.
-I do not believe LA is a great NFL town to begin with, hence the reason I would be shocked if the Chargers ever catch on in LA.
-LA is a City that has a great deal of things to do and that does not include watching mediocre NFL football. The Chargers have to be
great to catch LA's attention and they don't have a history of being great under Spanos.
-The STL lawsuit is legit. StanK and his cronies have to be VERY concerned. Why not offer STL a team that can generate income for the
NFL, versus allowing STL to walk with a boatload of cash and get nothing in return. The NFL knows STL is a very good NFL market. They
just wanted to get to LA so bad, STL was expendable, hence the reason they would come back if it makes sense. If the NFL and it's
shady cartel members are forced to take the stand, they would prefer anything to that. That would include putting a new team in STL.
-The Chiefs, while claiming STL 30 seconds after the announcement, still haven't caught on with any significant steam here in STL, even though the local TV and radio stations have tried to force them down our throats. STL wants OUR team, not another city's team, so that plan was never going to work, especially after the NFL screwed us.

-The REAL question is, what does STL really want? What are the plaintiffs willing to settle for, if anything? We do not know what they
hope to achieve, if that would include a package including a team and stadium. We don't know if that will ever really be on the table as a carrot from the NFL.

All I can say is that there have been several reports that the Chargers want out of LA and Spanos saying that is BS. STL has been
mentioned as a viable landing spot. I do not rule out the NFL returning to STL, just not any time soon. There is still too much anger and
resentment here.

You are never going to get St. Louis voters to agree to spend a single cent on the NFL ever again.

Where will St. Louis get the funds to build a new stadium? Are we honestly expecting the Taylors to put up another billion, or more, in addition to the $400 million they're committing to this MLS district? 

There is no way the city of St. Louis ever gets another NFL franchise, and it is, in part, because St. Louis itself will keep it that way. 

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Nov 27, 2019

There is no way the city of St. Louis ever gets another NFL franchise, and it is, in part, because St. Louis itself will keep it that way. 

You have too much faith in the region's ability to learn from mistakes and progress forward, especially when it comes to sportsball.

^^ if this case is going to settle for the amounts being discussed, St. Louis will not be spending a dime of public money on a stadium.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I don’t think it’s going to happen but you never know.

Just to have fun with this... if some type of settlement was $500mm to renovate the Dome, $300mm to renovate the convention center and $300mm to St. Louis area schools and charities... then some team being relocated or expansion team arriving... I may take that offer, but I’d throw out a small item I’d want in return.... since Stan is paying the freight on said settlement... we STL get all rights, logos, records, intellectual property and Trophies for the Rams Organization... that’s a knife in Stan’s side and HUGE FU to LA and Jerry Jones.  Then I’d change the colors to Maroon and White... or some other color combination...,

I would welcome the NFL back on these conditions. 1 build the stadium yourselves
2 whichever to comes here will have to sign a 500 year lease and there’s no signing out of the lease.


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KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Nov 25, 2019

It's possible with a loss in court and the cost overruns, that Kroenke may never see the day where his investment actually pays off and rewards him a single cent.

But, even if LA is a mediocre NFL market, this stadium will host countless Super Bowls, NCAA championships in football and basketball, Taylor Swift concerts, mega conventions, and more.

Remember that stanK made his fortune developing real estate.  Of course, that development consisted almost entirely of strip mall and fast food retail around Wal-Mart and Sam's Club stores, for which he had pretty much exclusive development rights and insider information simply because he somehow managed to marry a Wal-Mart heiress, but I digress...   

My point is that the Inglewood stadium project is not a sports investment, it is a real estate development first and foremost.  I highly doubt that stanK cares whether or not the Rams have a single fan in LA.  He knows that he can keep that stadium mostly full on gamedays with fans of visiting NFL teams, and those fans will spend just as much, if not more, $$$ around the stadium as Rams fans would.   Filling the stadium with Rams fans could provide a small bonus, but he really doesn't need them.  

And in any case, the NFL is only going to bring activity to Inglewood maybe 20 days a year, not including the occasional Super Bowl and Pro Bowl.  It is the other 345 days a year, and the other sports and entertainment events sure, but primarily it is the 250+ acres of retail, hotel, entertainment and office development, near LAX, where stanK envisions making his profit.