urbanSTL

DogtownBnR wrote: Does anyone know of any place where we can obtain data on how this place is doing?  I’m just curious. I went there for the first time last Friday. I understand it was opening day, but it was a Friday night and I bet it was barely 30% full.   Being that it is so big, it felt slightly empty. The atmosphere was not very good.  I understand that Belleville gave them tons of incentives, but what good are incentives if the place is destined to fail due to poor location. This is not a knock on Belleville. However, this place needs to be centrally located. I think it would’ve done great somewhere in the city or mid county. They chose a location that will deter people out west in Missouri from coming, outside of a rare occasion.  Obviously, a hotel will help, but being that so much was spent, is this place doomed to fail due to its off the beaten path location?

I've honestly been wondering how it's doing myself. There seems to be decent crowds on the weekends, and they currently have a now hiring sign out front for more staff, but I've honestly only been a handful of times. 

In terms of location though, it makes sense when you consider that it was supposed to be the center of a much larger complex. The city of Belleville and the Oblates (which owns the site in addition to The Shrine of Our Lady of the Snows next door) wanted hotels. The Keller family originally promised 3 hotels and a conference center, with the Hofbrauhaus being at the center of all of it. At this point there's nothing besides the massive Hofbrauhaus, and I don't know if there ever will be.

KansasCitian wrote: The Belleville location quite literally has an assisted living facility across the street. A church is nearby. Nothing else.

You're rather underselling the Shrine that's on the opposite side of Rte 15. It's a massive property that's much more than just a church and an assisted living facility. You're correct though that it's not urban, and the Hofbrauhaus is anywhere from 5-15 minutes away from the majority of Belleville, depending on where one is coming from.

I didn't even know they had a location in STL until I drove by it a couple weeks ago.  Had to do a double take.  My brain couldn't fathom why it was located there.  I just moved back to STL after 20 years in Chicago, so these types of "sightings" are happening on a daily basis.  For those who think things change slowly around here, try leaving for a couple decades.  The changes are profound! 

^Hey now! I did leave for a couple of decades. But . . . only just down seventy a ways. And I suppose I kept coming back to see family, even then.

Yes, you're doubtless quite correct.

STL Today just posted that Hofbrauhaus "is closed this weekend for a change in management."  They posted on Facebook to "join us for our grand re-opening" with the reopening date to be announced "shortly".

Doesn't sound promising...

Yikes, shutting down during Oktoberfest? This should be the one time of year they are actually somewhat busy.

I went here few months ago (only bc we were the on the way back from Eckert’s) and someone said they were going to close by end of the year. I guess this is a natural progression towards that. The location is horrible.

It's a ludicrously awful location. 

I don't understand why Hofbrauhaus ever signed off on a location there. It would have done so much better in the city, or even the county. 

From what I understand, though, it's not just the location that is dooming them. Horrible service, long waits for food despite small crowds, and lackluster food seem to be major culprits as well. 

I get the sense that management has bungled operations since day 1, and were bungling things mightily heading into the Oktoberfest season. It must have gotten so bad that firing management days before the biggest weekend of the year was the only course of action forward for ownership. 

I would have loved to have seen it in Midtown/Downtown West on Locust Street. 

Sadly, if it fails out there in Belleville, I doubt Hofbrauhaus builds another location in the metro. It'll probably just be gone.

The whole concept that this would become some sort of regional destination with hotels, conference centers, etc... always seemed totally misguided.

With so many great, admired local breweries with good atmospheres and solid food options it seems like Hofbrau missed the boat by about 15 years. Being in a horrible location was just the nail in the coffin of what already seems like a mediocre concept.

Maybe it would have worked in a Riverport or Westport sort of environment?

I guess an ideal situation would be making Bevo Mill and official Hofbrau Hays, but that’d make too much sense and probably wouldn’t fit the corporate requirements.

Totally agree.  Or the old german haus at Jefferson & Lafayette, though a bit too residential and would get killed almost immediately.

I think Hofbrauhaus is more suited to a suburban or touristy location than a city a one, which is fine, but without the larger development this place was doomed from the start. The groundbreaking was delayed 2 years while they waited for the rest of the site to come together, and they cut bait pretty quickly so I'm guessing they realized it wasn't going to work there on its own too.

I know the city of Belleville has been pretty aggressively trying to develop the Route 15 corridor, so I'm not sure if it was a sell job on the franchisee or what, but it sounds like it was a disaster from start to finish.

ebo wrote:I think Hofbrauhaus is more suited to a suburban or touristy location than a city a one, which is fine, but without the larger development this place was doomed from the start. The groundbreaking was delayed 2 years while they waited for the rest of the site to come together, and they cut bait pretty quickly so I'm guessing they realized it wasn't going to work there on its own too.

I know the city of Belleville has been pretty aggressively trying to develop the Route 15 corridor, so I'm not sure if it was a sell job on the franchisee or what, but it sounds like it was a disaster from start to finish.

Considering it was the Keller family that was pushing the whole package, I'm still at a loss why they decided to build the *largest* Hofbrauhaus in the country in the middle of an undeveloped area on the outskirts of Belleville without the rest of the development. Apparently the Mayor of Belleville fell for it though. I still have hopes that they reopen, but yeah, not looking good right now.

Black02AltimaSE wrote:Yikes, shutting down during Oktoberfest? This should be the one time of year they are actually somewhat busy.

They actually did their Oktoberfest a few weeks back, just before Belleville had its Oktoberfest in its downtown. That being said, I've gone for drinks a couple more times since I originally posted, and it was packed on weekends. Service left a lot to be desired though, and the food outside of the non-German dishes/brunch still sucks. The Bavarian pretzel was good though. 
A shame.

Welp, they are actually reopening:

https://www.bnd.com/news/local/article235676477.html

They hired a lawyer from Georgia to be their restaurant manager who isnt sure of what his role will be in the coming weeks and  says things like "Money doesn’t matter to me. It’s what you give to this world".

Yeah I'm sure this is going to totally work out. (Sarcasm)

mjbais1489 wrote:They hired a lawyer from Georgia to be their restaurant manager who isnt sure of what his role will be in the coming weeks and  says things like "Money doesn’t matter to me. It’s what you give to this world".

Yeah I'm sure this is going to totally work out. (Sarcasm)

You misread the quote. The lawyer from Atlanta is a family friend who they brought in to help them. The money doesn't matter part was in reference to his day job as a lawyer in Atlanta. He was saying that he came in to help them and their business to make sure the Kellers are ok, and that money doesn't matter in terms of his own job, not the business.

chaifetz10 wrote:Oof - when you see places claim they're going to use every gimmick possible to attract customers, while at the same time mention they want to replicate someone else (Hofbräuhaus am Platzl in Munich); well, that's a warning sign that's taught in undergrad business strategy 101.   They're trying to throw crap at the wall in hopes that something will stick.  But by doing so will just confuse potential customers even more.  Just more red flags for their long term success

This is also what this entire chain is based on. Mimicking the Hofbrauhaus in Munich. It's the only reason the chain exists. 
Their biggest problem, besides service, is honestly advertising though. Hanging a banner on IL-15 outside of the entrance and creating a Facebook post was their go to before, and it was woefully lacking. Citizens of Belleville didn't even know what they had going on, let alone people in the larger metro.

I've visited the Hofbrauhauses in Cincy (Newport) and Milwaukee.  I haven't been to the one here (I don't really see that ever happening), but I get the impression that it's large and similar to the Cincy location.

The Milwaukee location, on the other hand, is much smaller and located in a historic building near downtown.  A similar concept would probably work really well in downtown STL, at Laclede's Landing, etc.

Since they can’t change the location, my advice would be as follows:
Get that long desired hotel development, along with some other attractions to get people in the area. While the Shrine is nice, it is not enough. I would consider adding a carousel, a ferris wheel and some other Oktoberfest-type attractions near the building. I think the building is WAY to big/cavernous. It does not feel anything like the Munich location. That is much smaller and has the feel of an old beer hall. Even the location in Vegas doesn’t feel so cavernous. I wonder if they could add another private room to reduce the space in the dining area. That would make the acoustics better. That is another issue. The building creates an echo when the band is playing. The band that was there the night I went was 2 people and kind of lame for a Friday night. They need a full-on traditional German band, like you’d see at Oktoberfest. The service was good when I was there a few times, but it was not exceptionally busy either time, considering the high number of staff working. I would also suggest a pretzel girl walking around selling pretzels. I didn’t see a server carrying 3-4 large mugs at once. While risky, it was all part of the experience when I went to the Munich location. I think they need to plant trees and shrubs around the place. It reminded me of how subdivisions look before the trees grow in. A huge parking lot, not a lot of shrubbery or trees. Grow that stuff around the beer garden and expand the outside seating.
Regarding marketing, they need billboards all over the metro area. They need to run ads on radio and TV promoting their events. They need to have specials and happy hours to increase traffic. Even running some Groupons wouldn’t hurt, to get people through the door. This is all Marketing 101 stuff. Not rocket science.
Unfortunately, if they would have put this place in a central location, none of these concerns would be so pressing. This is nothing against Belleville, but that location is not convenient for a large % of the metro area. They counted on it being a regional draw. Unfortunately, they have yet to achieve that.

The promised hotel(s) would be great, but we'll see if they even happen. The promised gas station hasn't even happened, and the development has been marred with delay after delay. This is coming from someone who actually enjoys grabbing the occasional beer there and wants it to succeed as well. 

Additionally, to DogtownBnR's point, it feels so cavernous because it's the largest Hofbrauhaus in the country. It is indeed bigger than Vegas'. Also, I have been there when they've had larger bands. The bands even walk around putting that massive horn on tables with patrons and playing. It can be interesting.

Hopefully they're able to get the place back on track.

My comment won't necessarily add a lot to the conversation - but I went there last summer and almost certainly will never go back. The prices were "touristy", the food was cold (the place wasn't even busy), and my entire family had stomach issues shortly thereafter. Do we know for certain that we got sick from the food? No, not 100%. But, it is well-established that if pre-prepared food isn't kept warm (check and check), bad things start to happen. The food from Hofbrauhaus seemed to be the most-likely source.

still not been, probably never will. been to the downtown milwaukee and (urban/downtown cincy adjacent) northern kentucky locations multiple times though...

a downtown west location near the (now future) MLS stadium would have been smart.