It seems like there has been a rash of fires in and around Gravois Park lately and one of them has claimed an in-progress rehab on Chippewa that is part of the Chippewa Park development. The one that burned is near the intersection with California. The facade of the structure survived but the rest is pretty devastated. 

Does anyone have any idea what the plan is for this building now?

 

i'm guessing it's this one on the left:


https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... b3525.html

i give up on this city. as a soon-to-be-former south city resident, I'm officially out. there's just too much human trash here. the south side is going the way of the north side and city government doesn't care because they're too busy handing out tax abatement in the central corridor.

urban_dilettante wrote:i'm guessing it's this one on the left:


https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... b3525.html

i give up on this city. as a soon-to-be-former south city resident, I'm officially out. there's just too much human trash here. the south side is going the way of the north side and city government doesn't care because they're too busy handing out tax abatement in the central corridor.

Lol, what? The south side has waaaaaay more neighborhoods growing in value rather than the other way around. You’re disillusioned.


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yeah, if you can afford a home north of Gravois your property value is doing great. south of Gravois not so much. come hang out in Dutchtown or around the state streets some time. Crime is even increasing in Carondelet now. i see that you're new around here. i've lived most of my life in St. Louis. i've watched Dutchtown decline. I've watched Carondelet decline. I attended kindergarten about a block from my current house. I grew up a few blocks from here--used to walk to the the corner store at Grand to buy Garbage Pail Kids. I really hope that it turns around before you lose faith too. in my experience life has just been easier and more enjoyable in the other places I've lived. i don't have it in me anymore to deal with the anger and the threats and the gunshots and the trash and having stolen cars plowed into things in front of my house--just general lawlessness like I've not experienced elsewhere. i'm rooting for St. Louis but I'm gonna have to do it from somewhere else.

urban_dilettante wrote: i'm guessing it's this one on the left:


https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... b3525.html

i give up on this city. as a soon-to-be-former south city resident, I'm officially out. there's just too much human trash here. the south side is going the way of the north side and city government doesn't care because they're too busy handing out tax abatement in the central corridor.

I'm sorry you're so bitter about everything.

No. The one on the left is looking awesome with new roof, interior walls, new windows, storefront retail, tuck pointing, etc. It would be just behind the camera in this shot. 

In my image, it's the one to the right with the spray paint on front (old pic from before development). It was already framed up, had glass going in etc before the fire. The rest of the development is looking great BTW.

As for Gravois Park crime, it's been going down every year (down almost 25% this year over last) and property values have grown faster than most of the city. Forbes highlighted it last summer and there has only been investment since then.

From the article:
"The median sale price in Gravois Park in 2017 was $70,150, a 53% increase from 2014"

The article itself:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/charleneol ... 71e1973c29

^ well, better that building than the one i thought, i suppose. actually, though, arson has been a problem around here for a number of years now. not just recently. and while a 53% increase sounds great, $70K for a home is still pennies compared to places like Tower Grove or The Grove. Gravois Park crime (and Dutchtown crime) have been going down every year for a couple of years. And that's great, but the lived experience still sucks. There were three murders within a couple blocks of my house in the last year. My A/C condensers were stolen twice in the two years I've owned my home, despite cages. There is rampant drug-dealing, drug-using, and prostitution in my neighborhood; overflowing garbage; and wrecked, stolen cars left at the curb every few days. The cars parked directly in front of my house have been totaled twice in a matter of ten days. Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone else to leave, but I've reached my limit. Perhaps if I'd been able to afford a home in a part of the city that's seeing real investment things would have been different. I hope some day the entire city can enjoy what the central neighborhoods typically enjoy.

I hear ya. There is definitely crime in the south. Interesting though that Holly Hills and Benton Park actually have the fastest growing crime rates on the south side, but you don't hear people bemoaning them as much. 

I also hear you about 70k being a lot less than other places but affordable housing, high population density and tens of millions in investment over the past 18 months makes the area more attractive to me, not less. 

If they can actually get Chippewa going at all, it would make a great bookend with Cherokee (the south side of which is in Gravois Park). The Melba theater development should help the Grand side (still needs plenty of help south of that though) and Jefferson has some interesting business, institutional and residential developments as well. 

As for the center of the neighborhood, it would be helpful if Kranzberg would pull the trigger on the 24 Gravois Park properties they hold the option on. I haven't heard a thing about that since it was first announced and the properties have continued to degrade. 

The hospital complex is pretty ratty but the old Lutheran Hospital could make a cool loft development if it was carved off the rest of the campus. 

urban_dilettante wrote: yeah, if you can afford a home north of Gravois your property value is doing great. south of Gravois not so much. come hang out in Dutchtown or around the state streets some time. Crime is even increasing in Carondelet now. i see that you're new around here. i've lived most of my life in St. Louis. i've watched Dutchtown decline. I've watched Carondelet decline. I attended kindergarten about a block from my current house. I grew up a few blocks from here--used to walk to the the corner store at Grand to buy Garbage Pail Kids. I really hope that it turns around before you lose faith too. in my experience life has just been easier and more enjoyable in the other places I've lived. i don't have it in me anymore to deal with the anger and the threats and the gunshots and the trash and having stolen cars plowed into things in front of my house--just general lawlessness like I've not experienced elsewhere. i'm rooting for St. Louis but I'm gonna have to do it from somewhere else.

I am a long time resident of St. Louis Hills myself, so my view of the South Side might be a little bit skewed. That being said, I think the South Side's outlook is getting better. From what I have seen, there is a massive amount of growth in the less ideal neighborhoods. There is an influx of people moving into places like Soulard and Benton Park; eventually, the population will extend outwards into the areas you mentioned. Cherokee Street is growing faster than anything I have seen in this city; the demographics are rapidly changing, and numerous developments are taking shape. This fire is a definite step back, but it happens. This city has had its troubles, but it is no longer getting worse. I'm sure you are more experienced than I am because you mentioned this is where you have spent your entire life, and I value your opinion entirely. That is just what I had to say.

The Southside Spaces building (3746-56 California Ave) has a rehabilitation proceeding apace.
The house at 2811 Chippewa burned a few years ago had been purchased by Southside Spaces just before the fire. Last I heard, they were still planning on using the remaining portions of the structure as an indoor/outdoor establishment.
The building to the west of the 2800 Chippewa St parcel burned recently. The other 2 structures on the property, also being rehabbed as part of the RiseSTL and Lutheran Church efforts were not affected. Until the Fire Dept. issues a ruling publicly, I would assume the fire was construction related, first, and then proceed from there based on evidence and fact, not rumor, hearsay, and negativity.

The building that burned is below. 2812 Chippewa. Unfortunately, it probably was arson by a guy that lives across the alley that has some issues. Isolated incident as far as anyone can tell. I talked go the the architect on the project this morning, developer last week, and contractor yesterday, and the plan is to save the building if possible. The engineer says they should be able to save the facade and build new behind. This is a setback for this building for sure, but the building next door and the rest of the project is proceeding. Full crew on site today. Some of the buildings in the project are already turned over and occupied.



2755 Chippewa is also proceeding, with occupancy expected by the end of June. This is not part of the Chippewa Park project, as has been noted.

Thanks MattnSTL

That's good to hear and exactly what I was wondering about. 

That tan shaded building is nice looking!

From Mark Groth's Twitter:

Damn shame on Chippewa. Maybe the front can be saved. So much positivity happening in this part of town.

And reiterating what was said on here, in reply to that someone who 'used to work on the development team' said it was confirmed to him that the front will be saved.

-RBB

urban_dilettante wrote: ^ well, better that building than the one i thought, i suppose. actually, though, arson has been a problem around here for a number of years now. not just recently. and while a 53% increase sounds great, $70K for a home is still pennies compared to places like Tower Grove or The Grove. Gravois Park crime (and Dutchtown crime) have been going down every year for a couple of years. And that's great, but the lived experience still sucks. There were three murders within a couple blocks of my house in the last year. My A/C condensers were stolen twice in the two years I've owned my home, despite cages. There is rampant drug-dealing, drug-using, and prostitution in my neighborhood; overflowing garbage; and wrecked, stolen cars left at the curb every few days. The cars parked directly in front of my house have been totaled twice in a matter of ten days. Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone else to leave, but I've reached my limit. Perhaps if I'd been able to afford a home in a part of the city that's seeing real investment things would have been different. I hope some day the entire city can enjoy what the central neighborhoods typically enjoy.

Wow, I can't believe you are throwing in the towel, honestly.

Bracing to prepare for rebuilding work to start is now in place.

MattnSTL wrote: Bracing to prepare for rebuilding work to start is now in place.

That's dedication right there. Saving a burned up building with only the walls left standing. If this was any other developer/owner, the building would've been demoed. Good deal.

The building at this intersection, by SouthSideSpaces looks pretty spectacular.

There are a tea room/store and a Candy/Ice Cream store in the two commercial units fronting Chippewa, though I've yet to see either open and the candy store has had brown paper on the windows for a while now.

The rear unit (or two?) on the California side is an accessible dwelling (note that the sidewalk is level with the entryway). During their "open house" party when SouthSide finished this, I got to see the unit and it was pretty amazing how well they made it level and accessible (counter height, bathroom conveniences, etc.)

There appears to be a wedding gown showroom in one of the commercial units.

This development was architected by Virescent Design.




Catty-corner, the building that's part of the Chippewa Park scattered site development looks great. Even the one that burned during construction made it all the way back to viability.

warwickland wrote: ↑

Jun 28, 2019

burnout 100% happens. not sure where you are going to find cheaper non-crime-ridden urban or urbanish neighborhoods, though outside of metro st. louis...pittsburgh? the northern kentucky urban neighborhoods across from cincinnati (covington/newport)? ferndale (metro detroit), michigan? not an easy task. and i'd rather see people stay in the urban core of metro st. louis than leave entirely.

metro st. louis has many many square miles of reasonably safe to practically leave your doors unlocked safe pre-war neighborhoods, straddling either side of the city limits that are far, far, far more affordable than about the vast majority of similarly sized metro areas and up. 

I see that one of my comments in response to this got deleted. maybe it wasn't cheery enough? maybe Tapatalk just deletes stuff.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Aug 31, 2020

warwickland wrote: ↑

Jun 28, 2019

burnout 100% happens. not sure where you are going to find cheaper non-crime-ridden urban or urbanish neighborhoods, though outside of metro st. louis...pittsburgh? the northern kentucky urban neighborhoods across from cincinnati (covington/newport)? ferndale (metro detroit), michigan? not an easy task. and i'd rather see people stay in the urban core of metro st. louis than leave entirely.

metro st. louis has many many square miles of reasonably safe to practically leave your doors unlocked safe pre-war neighborhoods, straddling either side of the city limits that are far, far, far more affordable than about the vast majority of similarly sized metro areas and up. 

I see that one of my comments in response to this got deleted. maybe it was cheery enough? maybe Tapatalk just deletes stuff.

A mod moved it to the crime thread.

^ ah. okay, thanks.

EDIT: I looked around for the one I was thinking about but I don't see it in Crime Thread. Maybe it was stamped with a drastically different date when it was moved or something? No big deal.