Amazon HQ2 in STL Effort

STLEnginerd · PostJan 26, 2018#7012018-01-26T04:36+00:00

On some level see the East side proposal as a little thick headed. Yes I want to see a recovered east side but it really outlines the extreme poverty that encircles downtown when you can dump hundreds of millions into a site and still can't make a dent in the desperate situation there.

Pretty disappointed Amazon went through such lengths to open the playing field and proceeded to pick the same old major markets. I really thought they might try to do something different. I was thinking Baltimore would have had a good chance given its proximity to DC, low cost of living compared to the rest of the east coast and ocean front property and a chance to really be a difference maker. To a place like DC, Chicago, New York, LA, Dallas and Atlanta they aren't really going to make the same kind of impact they could have elsewhere. Maybe they prefer it that way but its super boring.

Also selecting trendy cities like Austin, Nashville and Indianapolis kind of make me roll my eyes. Sure they are fine cities in their own right but the reputation far outpaces the reality IMHO. Austin especially where you are going to make it such that UT Austin students can't find a place they can afford to live for the next decade. Its probably already an issue down there. Same for Columbus.

And companies putting down roots in DC kind of disgusts me. Sure you need to have an army of lobbyists and a few executives in town buying dinner for congressmen like every other fortune 500 company but come on that's like a few hundred jobs.

Personally I hope they pick Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. At least they seem a little out of the box at least. Pittsburgh is a little bit "hype-y" too but not to the degree i sense from the others.

shadrach · PostJan 26, 2018#7022018-01-26T15:00+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Jan 26, 2018
On some level see the East side proposal as a little thick headed. Yes I want to see a recovered east side but it really outlines the extreme poverty that encircles downtown when you can dump hundreds of millions into a site and still can't make a dent in the desperate situation there.

Yes! I thought including Illinois was a good move until I saw 'Mark Twain' and 'Lincoln' monikers. Aside from being dumb, uninspired names that reek of appeasing politicians, it emphasized two different states. Two different tax codes, two different payrolls taxes, two different lobbying efforts, licenses, regulatory, etc.

If it were St. Louis City, then Amazon would only have to deal with the city and state for taxes, expansions, incentives, etc. and eventually form a good partnership. With this pitch, it's St. Louis City, state of Missouri, City of East St. Louis, Madison County and state of Illinois. Then you get the "they built a new building over there last time, it's our turn now" squabbling. Herding cats rather than a partnership. Geez! Could we make their HQ2 any more of a bureaucratic headache? In retrospect, trying to "include all players" was more detrimental than beneficial.

my two cents.

soulardx · PostJan 26, 2018#7032018-01-26T16:10+00:00

What went wrong with St. Louis’ Amazon bid? Depends who you ask.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ml?s=print

whitherSTL · PostJan 26, 2018#7042018-01-26T16:25+00:00

Looking at the presentation it came across as hokey and goofy, in my opinion.

newstl2020 · PostJan 26, 2018#7052018-01-26T16:28+00:00

^^These articles are cute and all but it is blatantly clear Amazon never had the intention of legitimately considering anywhere other than maybe 3 locations they had predetermined. It was a PR move focused on creating a bidding war between whichever their preferred alternatives were. Virtually all analysts agree on this point.

^^^Excellent points by Shadrach above. The two state cross river proposal does not work for numerous reasons as Shadrach provided a 1000' view of in that post. I understand "regional cooperation," but this is a dumb proposal for any future attempts. Maryland came out today stating they hope Amazon locates in Maryland, but will be ecstatic if Amazon chooses either of the other two locations around DC also as people will still chose to live in Maryland, spend money in Maryland, etc etc. That's the kind of regional cooperation we should be focusing on for future proposals.

whitherSTL · PostJan 26, 2018#7062018-01-26T16:34+00:00

newstl2020 wrote: ↑
Jan 26, 2018
^^These articles are cute and all but it is blatantly clear Amazon never had the intention of legitimately considering anywhere other than maybe 3 locations they had predetermined. It was a PR move focused on creating a bidding war between whichever their preferred alternatives were. Virtually all analysts agree on this point.

^^^Excellent points by Shadrach above. The two state cross river proposal does not work for numerous reasons as Shadrach provided a 1000' view of in that post. I understand "regional cooperation," but this is a dumb proposal for any future attempts. Maryland came out today stating they hope Amazon locates in Maryland, but will be ecstatic if Amazon chooses either of the other two locations around DC also as people will still chose to live in Maryland, spend money in Maryland, etc etc. That's the kind of regional cooperation we should be focusing on for future proposals.

Bravo!

jstriebel · PostJan 26, 2018#7072018-01-26T18:22+00:00

shadrach wrote: ↑
Jan 26, 2018
Yes! I thought including Illinois was a good move until I saw 'Mark Twain' and 'Lincoln' monikers. Aside from being dumb, uninspired names that reek of appeasing politicians, it emphasized two different states. Two different tax codes, two different payrolls taxes, two different lobbying efforts, licenses, regulatory, etc.

If it were St. Louis City, then Amazon would only have to deal with the city and state for taxes, expansions, incentives, etc. and eventually form a good partnership. With this pitch, it's St. Louis City, state of Missouri, City of East St. Louis, Madison County and state of Illinois. Then you get the "they built a new building over there last time, it's our turn now" squabbling. Herding cats rather than a partnership. Geez! Could we make their HQ2 any more of a bureaucratic headache? In retrospect, trying to "include all players" was more detrimental than beneficial.

my two cents.

I just don't agree with this at all despite good points, and here's why.

Amazon isn't going to take any cities full proposal and build it out. They're going to take whatever proposal in the city the prefer and use it as a framework. They'll probably sucker additional incentives out of the market they choose. And then they'll build whatever campus suits them in whatever footprint they truly choose.

St. Louis' visionary proposal wasn't a take it or leave it option. It showed a lot of what could have been and a lot of jumping off points. If Amazon was ever truly willing to consider the St. Louis market, but had concerns about the multiple governments, they could have seen all the things the city (just as one example) had to offer, and are certainly capable of discerning how that could work for them.

This was a pitch. And a damn good one. But anybody that comes from a field with pitching knows what gets pitched rarely is what comes to fruition. The pitch showed Amazon a lot of was that things could have been. I don't think for one second they were derailed by the the idea of too many governments because they simply could have worked on a different solution.

STLrainbow · PostJan 26, 2018#7082018-01-26T20:23+00:00

^ I pretty much agree with that take. For sure Amazon only has a few true candidates in mind but our pitch seems to have been a pretty good exercise in envisioning what our region could look like if we really had our act together, and part of getting that act together definitely is having more investment in the core and greater cooperation among the different jurisdictions. Everyone knew the core was the best place for the Amazon pitch and not all future tailored pitches will have that same focus, but if we can pursue policies and strategies that can help us build up what we see in that pitch on a more organic basis that will have been a big achievement for the region.

gary kreie · PostJan 29, 2018#7092018-01-29T02:03+00:00

I noticed all the cities in the Amazon 20 cities were capitals or megametros except one. Pittsburgh. Capitals include: Columbus, Indy, Denver, DC(3), Austin, Nashville, Atlanta, Boston, & Raleigh. And biggest metros: Dallas, LA, NY(2), Miami, Chicago, Philly, Toronto. Pittsburgh doesn’t fit either category. The only megametros of the top 10 left out were Houston and San Francisco.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dweebe · PostJan 29, 2018#7102018-01-29T06:07+00:00

gary kreie wrote: ↑
Jan 29, 2018
I noticed all the cities in the Amazon 20 cities were capitals or megametros except one. Pittsburgh. Capitals include: Columbus, Indy, Denver, DC(3), Austin, Nashville, Atlanta, Boston, & Raleigh. And biggest metros: Dallas, LA, NY(2), Miami, Chicago, Philly, Toronto. Pittsburgh doesn’t fit either category. The only megametros of the top 10 left out were Houston and San Francisco.

I'm still trying to figure out what Minneapolis/St. Paul did to get out of the 20. They're a state capital and home to the state university. My only guess is that their state taxes are pretty harsh.

jshank83 · PostJan 29, 2018#7112018-01-29T06:30+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jan 29, 2018

gary kreie wrote: ↑
Jan 29, 2018
I noticed all the cities in the Amazon 20 cities were capitals or megametros except one. Pittsburgh. Capitals include: Columbus, Indy, Denver, DC(3), Austin, Nashville, Atlanta, Boston, & Raleigh. And biggest metros: Dallas, LA, NY(2), Miami, Chicago, Philly, Toronto. Pittsburgh doesn’t fit either category. The only megametros of the top 10 left out were Houston and San Francisco.
I'm still trying to figure out what Minneapolis/St. Paul did to get out of the 20. They're a state capital and home to the state university. My only guess is that their state taxes are pretty harsh.

They said from the start they weren't giving much, if any, incentives. I think probably because they have Target's headquarters and didn't want to step on their toes.

https://www.twincities.com/2017/10/16/m ... y-to-send/

"The bid will not include any over-the-top tax breaks, other than listing what the state already offers any developments."

Trololzilla · PostJan 30, 2018#7122018-01-30T15:09+00:00

Hmm:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 408aa.html

Would Amazon still be looking for a healthcare-related acquisition target (read: Express Scripts) if this comes to fruition?

Bart Harley Jarvis · PostJan 30, 2018#7132018-01-30T15:15+00:00

Trololzilla wrote: ↑
Jan 30, 2018
Hmm:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 408aa.html

Would Amazon still be looking for a healthcare-related acquisition target (read: Express Scripts) if this comes to fruition?

It just got 11% cheaper to do so!

STLrainbow · PostJan 30, 2018#7142018-01-30T18:14+00:00

So this is kind of a fun fact on the Amazon selection: of the 17 Metros that made the first cut (D.C. & NY metros have more than 1 contender), 10 were either a national, state or provincial capital. 6 were among the Top 10 Most Fragmented Metros. Denver and Boston were in both categories. Only LA, Miami & Dallas were in neither.

So it looks like we may have had a bit of an advantage by being a fragmented region, but really could've been helped out by being a state capital. Hartford is both a Top 10 Most Fragmented metro and a state capital, so they really blew it!

Not sure what to really make of the fragmentation issue but this piece from 2014 suggesting that there is a correlation b/w tech and fragmented metros is interesting for sure.

Rise of the Fragmented City - Does the number of governments in a given metro area really matter?
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/04/ ... ty/391556/

In the end, I think it is the fact that we are not a state capital, lack a flagship university and had a strong rust belt/manufacturing past are more telling for where we are now than our lack of being merged. Not that merger wouldn't be helpful but it's importance is being overplayed imo.

soulardx · PostJan 30, 2018#7152018-01-30T19:54+00:00

More interesting reads that confirm my strong suspicion that STL (and every other city save 3-5) never really had a shot.

Amazon's HQ2: Has Washington, D.C., Already Won It? Will There Be More Than One Winner?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petesaunde ... 7e2f1f582b

Amazon’s HQ2 — Here’s Where It’s Going
https://hackernoon.com/amazons-hq2-here ... b862a47431

Smart money is on DC these days.

jstriebel · PostJan 30, 2018#7162018-01-30T20:25+00:00

STLrainbow wrote: ↑
Jan 30, 2018
In the end, I think it is the fact that we are not a state capital, lack a flagship university and had a strong rust belt/manufacturing past are more telling for where we are now than our lack of being merged. Not that merger wouldn't be helpful but it's importance is being overplayed imo.

You're all over the notion that we're overvaluing a merger. I don't think I agree, but fair enough. But do you really think being fragmented gives us an advantage?

That seems like a weird, unscientific reading of the data. I think you can suggest it wasn't a hinderance, but I'd struggle to see how it could truly be framed as an advantage that helped cities with fragmentation get selected.

STLrainbow · PostJan 30, 2018#7172018-01-30T20:53+00:00

^ I think the thought is that local competition is a good thing for biz. Frankly I'm not sold on it but it's an interesting notion.

I think greater city/county consolidation (depending upon the details) would be marginally helpful for us but definitely believe greater cooperation at the larger MPO/EWG level would be even better. What I fear about all this "we have to merge or else" talk is that it isn't going to happen (most likely) and is a bit of silver bullet strategy that I sense is distracting us from things right now that we could pursue to help us move forward. I just wish we had an "Invest in North Saint Louis" City and County effort that was the focus of attention... that's how we're going to move our region ahead.

hebeters2 · PostJan 31, 2018#7182018-01-31T18:27+00:00

Richard Florida argues mayors should not compete for Amazon,
https://www.change.org/p/elected-offici ... azon-s-hq2

PostFeb 04, 2018#7192018-02-04T16:25+00:00

Amazon fulfillment centers do not generate broad-based employment growth

http://www.epi.org/publication/unfulfil ... nt-growth/

gone corporate · PostFeb 27, 2018#7202018-02-27T21:34+00:00

Trololzilla wrote: ↑
Jan 30, 2018
Hmm:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 408aa.html

Would Amazon still be looking for a healthcare-related acquisition target (read: Express Scripts) if this comes to fruition?

Yes. Even as we're not in the running for HQ2, I do believe AMZN remains just as interested as before in ESRX, which just produced pretty solid earnings after the bell today.

Forbes: How Albertsons Paves A Path For Amazon To Buy Express Scripts

Disclosure: I'm near-term long ESRX.

southsidepride · PostMar 01, 2018#7212018-03-01T04:36+00:00

I wonder if Amazon will drop Atlanta off their list of 20 due to Georgia politicians attempting to punish Delta for discontinuing discounts for NRA members?

ldai_phs · PostMar 01, 2018#7222018-03-01T04:55+00:00

southsidepride wrote: ↑
Mar 01, 2018
I wonder if Amazon will drop Atlanta off their list of 20 due to Georgia politicians attempting to punish Delta for discontinuing discounts for NRA members?

I don't think Atlanta or pretty much any of the selected cities are actually in the running. Look to NYC and DC area proposals for the only ones that are really in the running.

imperialmog · PostMar 01, 2018#7232018-03-01T05:33+00:00

There is a lot of pressure for Amazon to pick places that pick certain political profiles which will eliminate most of the finalists due to the state legislators. That would likely make it only DC, NYC, Boston, and Toronto at that point.

ldai_phs · PostMar 01, 2018#7242018-03-01T05:46+00:00

imperialmog wrote: ↑
Mar 01, 2018
There is a lot of pressure for Amazon to pick places that pick certain political profiles which will eliminate most of the finalists due to the state legislators. That would likely make it only DC, NYC, Boston, and Toronto at that point.

A Toronto HQ would buy them exactly 0 house or senate seats. won't happen

DC area would buy Virginia, Maryland, and be next to the capital. Bezos has a home in NYC, its one of the top choices for talent, and would get power over senate+house seats across from most of the states in the greater NYC Metro.

dredger · PostMar 01, 2018#7252018-03-01T05:55+00:00

ldai_phs wrote: ↑
Mar 01, 2018

imperialmog wrote: ↑
Mar 01, 2018
There is a lot of pressure for Amazon to pick places that pick certain political profiles which will eliminate most of the finalists due to the state legislators. That would likely make it only DC, NYC, Boston, and Toronto at that point.
A Toronto HQ would buy them exactly 0 house or senate seats. won't happen

DC area would buy Virginia, Maryland, and be next to the capital. Bezos has a home in NYC, its one of the top choices for talent, and would get power over senate+house seats across from most of the states in the greater NYC Metro.

DC area gives close proximity to the single biggest buyer of consumable goods, parts, supplies and drugs in the county. The place that buys everything from Boeing fighter jets to WWT IT services to toilet paper for the Arch Ground restrooms. To me that is the biggest draw of being in the DC area.

Amazon HQ2 in STL Effort

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