urbanSTL

matguy70 wrote:and Ladies and Gentleman...

THIS is why the Top 20 are the Top 20... BILLIONS of Dollars! STL didn't offer enough (along with 231 other non-Amazon finalist cities) $$$billions.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... -million-1

We offered over $6 Billion in incentives unless I am missing the point here.

dredger wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

Columbus I take it as a nod to their presence of their air cargo fleet based there if not mistaken.

It's at the Cincy airport. I'm guessing Ohio State is big reason fo Columbus.

come to think of it more i find the St.Louis bid to be compelling yet heartbreaking. In the meantime in my 2018 predictions list i got 9 out of 10 cities correct the only city i missed was Detroit which was a bit of a shocker. I think its between Atlanta and the surrounding DC region.
Maybe someday a large company will se value in St.Louis who knows gotta keep the faith

St.Louis1764 wrote:come to think of it more i find the St.Louis bid to be compelling yet heartbreaking. In the meantime in my 2018 predictions list i got 9 out of 10 cities correct the only city i missed was Detroit which was a bit of a shocker. I think its between Atlanta and the surrounding DC region.
Maybe someday a large company will se value in St.Louis who knows gotta keep the faith

I would expect a developer to jump on the plans for the Riverfront. We will get something out of this whether it is a new tower or a major redevelopment. Clayco did a great job, now we just need to see some of it done in some way.

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

I don't think that was the incentive number... in fact I think STL didn't release the exact incentive number. St. Clair was 500 million.

The incentives are listed in detail in the download. They were valued at 5.4 billion between all sources. It's a mix of tax givebacks, land, buildings, tax credits, and probably a whole lot of other devices I just skimmed through. 2.4 billion from the state. 1.3 from the city. A billion from Illinois and 700 million from St. Clair County. And 50 million from St. Louis County. Starts on p. 40. There's a five page overview and then another fifty odd pages of details.

The Partnership on Thursday released the 312-page bid, which showed that $7.1 billion in incentives were offered to Amazon, including $2.4 billion from the state of Missouri, $1.15 billion from the city of St. Louis, $56.5 million from St. Louis County, $927 million from the state of Illinois, $700 million from St. Clair County, and $1.3 billion in free or reduced land building costs from the city of St. Louis.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... s-hq2.html

Is it time to change the thread name to Apple?

Two compelling trends that are not quite their yet but around the corner. Feds NGA investment will be a win for downtown/west downtown/city as it will grow in this geopolitical world. In the meantime, smaller near term wins with Nestle and believe Square will help give downtown keep the momentum going. Second, Plant Science and CORTEX will continue to give the region much needed and sustainable private sector growth even though you don't get the big bang Amazon impact

Upon further review. Considering the exclusion of St. Louis, Detroit and Baltimore it's only a matter of time so I'll go ahead pose the question.

Is Amazon racist? Is Atlanta their "but one of my best friends is black" city on the list?

And what about San Francisco? No tech infrastructure? No talent base?

And why is no earnings tax considered an incentive but its good enough for the rest of us idiots?

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

Upon further review. Considering the exclusion of St. Louis, Detroit and Baltimore it's only a matter of time so I'll go ahead pose the question.

Is Amazon racist? Is Atlanta their "but one of my best friends is black" city on the list?

And what about San Francisco? No tech infrastructure? No talent base?

And why is no earnings tax considered an incentive but its good enough for the rest of us idiots?

Atlanta, DC, Miami, NYC, Dallas, etc. all have over well 1 million black people, some even over 2 million in their metropolitan areas. By comparison, St Louis has about 500,000 black people, Baltimore has about 750,000. Detroit barely touches 1 million and declining. It's not that simple as these cities being too black, but I see why people can jump to those conclusions. Rust Belt metros are not as black as people think, a lot of whites just fled the central cities after deindustrialization and suburbs leaving major black central cities with really white suburbs. In many parts of the country, like the South, it is common to see black and whites pretty evenly dispersed in the suburbs and central city.

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

Upon further review. Considering the exclusion of St. Louis, Detroit and Baltimore it's only a matter of time so I'll go ahead pose the question.

Is Amazon racist? Is Atlanta their "but one of my best friends is black" city on the list?

And what about San Francisco? No tech infrastructure? No talent base?

And why is no earnings tax considered an incentive but its good enough for the rest of us idiots?

Crime rate could be a big factor along with racial tensions.

SF the issue was they likely were not looking at a West Coast place.

In the end I think it will be in the DC metro area in large part to be near government officials, especially if there is potential antitrust concerns down the line. The antitrust concerns I could see ends up resulting in a potential future breakup of the company.

The five or six wealthiest counties in the US are all clustered around DC. System broken.

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

I’ve been to Denver a lot lately and they have a lot of stratup activity going on there, and young programmers like to move there, but I don’t see a top 25 University there like Wash U. Nashville has Vanderbilt, Pittsburg has Carnegie Melon. What does Indy have?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gary, as ynot said Purdue is about an hour's drive away as is IU.... downtown-ish you have IUPU - Indianapolis which has a large enrollment, and there's also Butler in town. As for Pittsburgh, we're pretty similar with Carnegie/WashU and Duquesne/SLU but what I'm envious of is they have an excellent state research university, Pitt, smack dab in the center of town. Missouri legislature needs to step up and provide more support to UMSL and UMKC (and Mizzou and the rest, too) if our cities are going to compete in the 21c..

Unfortunately it looks like more cutbacks are on the way.

I saw it mentioned once but is the fact that St. Louis County did next to nothing compared to EVERYONE else not alarming?

I mean we can debate the actual value of incentives but that's kinda crazy right?

And why is no earnings tax considered an incentive but its good enough for the rest of us idiots?

.... because we're little people and little people.... well, little people just don't matter.

The lack of talent excuse is garbage. Straight up garbage.

For a company so proud of it's disruption and one that likely believes it is visionary, they clearly have no confidence in their ability to attract talent or to grow it in a region.

There is PLENTY of midwest talent, and a lot more would move in from elsewhere. And talent grows from investment too.

Amazon can get wrecked.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jan 18, 2018

2- The North Riverfront (Mark Twain) and the Lincoln campus were visionary. I think those should become masterplans.

Have you seen this?

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... evised.pdf

jstriebel wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

The lack of talent excuse is garbage. Straight up garbage.

For a company so proud of it's disruption and one that likely believes it is visionary, they clearly have no confidence in their ability to attract talent or to grow it in a region.

There is PLENTY of midwest talent, and a lot more would move in from elsewhere. And talent grows from investment too.

Amazon can get wrecked.

Agree. There is not "shortage", and even if there was, Amazon would just fly them in like they do to Seattle already.

It's more likely a "talent shortage" is just the most PC, least offensive reason they can give for not selecting a city, rather than just giving the nasty truth.

debaliviere wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jan 18, 2018

2- The North Riverfront (Mark Twain) and the Lincoln campus were visionary. I think those should become masterplans.

Have you seen this?

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... evised.pdf

Look at the number of people who worked on that or contributed to it...that's a ton of time, effort and manpower to produce nothing but a document. St. Louis is always said to be a "City of Plans" and I would guess that's probably true in a lot of other places too but it sure seems like so many of these plans never get past the PDF stage. So my question, I guess, is how can that amount of effort be converted into something that is actually productive? I don't really know, but seems like that would be a great place to start making an actual difference. Resources are being allocated and consumed by the process of producing that plan, but if nothing happens from it, the resources are effectively wasted, right? Is there a better way to allocate and use those resources is what I am asking. Any good FEASIBLE ideas?

PS I'm not knocking the work involved by anyone, just trying to look at it from a different perspective.

jstriebel wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

The lack of talent excuse is garbage. Straight up garbage.

For a company so proud of it's disruption and one that likely believes it is visionary, they clearly have no confidence in their ability to attract talent or to grow it in a region.

There is PLENTY of midwest talent, and a lot more would move in from elsewhere. And talent grows from investment too.

Amazon can get wrecked.

I agree Amazon can get wrecked but when you look at Raleigh/Durham making the cut over Charlotte and Austin and Dallas over Houston it does look like existing talent/tech environment was indeed a consideration. With the Midwest talent pool, they put those cities on the list that were a bit higher than us. Anyway, none of them are going to get it and I mostly agree with the sentiment that it's good we didn't make the cut now so we can move on instead of having things strung along.

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jan 19, 2018

I agree Amazon can get wrecked but when you look at Raleigh/Durham making the cut over Charlotte and Austin and Dallas over Houston it does look like existing talent/tech environment was indeed a consideration. With the Midwest talent pool, they put those cities on the list that were a bit higher than us. Anyway, none of them are going to get it and I mostly agree with the sentiment that it's good we didn't make the cut now so we can move on instead of having things strung along.

Sure. I wasn't suggesting that they were lying about what their considerations were. I'm just saying they're stupid and uninterested in leading any charges.

How much money do you think has been spent by regional "leaders" on the various proposals for Amazon, Boeing, the NFL stadium, the MLS stadium, etc.? They spent like $17 million on the NFL. How much on these others?

Think of what they could have done with that money if they injected into small businesses, start ups, training programs, etc.?