Discussion on North-South Metrolink
Part 1
Part 2
Part 1
Part 2
I plan to go on the 17th.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jan 03, 2018Looks like the N/S people are holding some open houses this week. Would be cool if somebody could go and report back here.
http://www.northsidesouthsidestl.com/?u ... ign=buffer
I'll be the one on the 17th as well. Let's all wear matching shirts.
- 9,566
Looking forward to hearing the ridership projections and cost per mile.
whatever they say for ridership, multiple it by .60 for realistic number
whatever they say for ridership, multiple it by .60 for realistic number
- 9,566
1.15 to be on the safe side
I hope they arent presenting cost numbers in todays dollars and apply a 3% multiplier per year til construction year.When MoDOT scopes projects it does it in today's dollars and than applies a 3% growth per year til construction so if its replacing a bridge that in today's dollar would cost $20M and construction is in 4 years it will show the cost as $22.51m than you give hope inflation on items needed/labor doesnt go up too much from todays numbers
- 2,634
- 6,123
On my way momentarily. I'll be wearing a black fedora and carrying a camera.
I went to this.
Few takeaways from questions I asked:
- They feel confident they will have Phase 1 done between 2026-2028
- They said federal matching funds are likely since local is done.
- Were unsure of whether or not the trains would be able to turn the traffic signals to allow them to move throw red lights faster.
- I personally found it fascinating/sad that the mirror the leg on the northside (not counting downtown or near downtown) will serve 3,000 residents while the mirror of that leg on the southside will serve 20,000. Just highlights how little half of our city is being utilized to its fullest.
- Jefferson street parking would be removed which seems like a mistake and many people seemed concerned about.
- They seem very focused on Phase 1 (Cherokee to the new NGA). Almost like, "we think we can get this part done and then we'll see if we can get the rest built." Which is fine by me honestly.
Few takeaways from questions I asked:
- They feel confident they will have Phase 1 done between 2026-2028
- They said federal matching funds are likely since local is done.
- Were unsure of whether or not the trains would be able to turn the traffic signals to allow them to move throw red lights faster.
- I personally found it fascinating/sad that the mirror the leg on the northside (not counting downtown or near downtown) will serve 3,000 residents while the mirror of that leg on the southside will serve 20,000. Just highlights how little half of our city is being utilized to its fullest.
- Jefferson street parking would be removed which seems like a mistake and many people seemed concerned about.
- They seem very focused on Phase 1 (Cherokee to the new NGA). Almost like, "we think we can get this part done and then we'll see if we can get the rest built." Which is fine by me honestly.
2028 feels SO far away, but other than that, that all sounds like awesome news. I hope it's real and not false optimism.
- 2,634
Did they say anything about which route they were leaning towards on the North Side? I personally like the Florissant/St. Louis Ave route, but cannot deny the dividends a Delmar/Jefferson route would pay to DTW and Midtown.
- 488
Thanks for the update.ImprovSTL wrote: ↑Jan 18, 2018I went to this.
Few takeaways from questions I asked:
- They feel confident they will have Phase 1 done between 2026-2028
- They said federal matching funds are likely since local is done.
- Were unsure of whether or not the trains would be able to turn the traffic signals to allow them to move throw red lights faster.
- I personally found it fascinating/sad that the mirror the leg on the northside (not counting downtown or near downtown) will serve 3,000 residents while the mirror of that leg on the southside will serve 20,000. Just highlights how little half of our city is being utilized to its fullest.
- Jefferson street parking would be removed which seems like a mistake and many people seemed concerned about.
- They seem very focused on Phase 1 (Cherokee to the new NGA). Almost like, "we think we can get this part done and then we'll see if we can get the rest built." Which is fine by me honestly.
I agree with everything you mention. Jefferson is crazy wide - i honestly think you could keep parking, add bike lanes, add streetcar and be totally fine. NGA to cherokee would be a massive improvement.
No, they were trying to get input on which route people preferred and why. They did seem bullish on NGA being part of it and brought it up a lot. I said I preferred the St. Louis Ave route due to Old North but I don't frequent that area enough to have a super strong opinion.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jan 18, 2018Did they say anything about which route they were leaning towards on the North Side? I personally like the Florissant/St. Louis Ave route, but cannot deny the dividends a Delmar/Jefferson route would pay to DTW and Midtown.
One more note, not that it is surprising but they will start building out the downtown stations and work outward.
The preferred route has to be the St. Louis Avenue alignment as it touches NGA and snakes the western border of Old North. I think it would be silly to exclude Old North from the Metrolink narrative. That could be a truly car optional neighborhood. I think this is where the line could see most of its residential bulk from the North. Perhaps eliminating some of the "island" effect of Downtown.
If the line is successful, Old North could very well become The Grove of the South. (In terms of a comeback). Unlike the Grove, Old North would boast speedy connections to the core. Would be very affordable in its origin and offer a setback for those who want to live near downtown and use its amenities, etc.
If the line is successful, Old North could very well become The Grove of the South. (In terms of a comeback). Unlike the Grove, Old North would boast speedy connections to the core. Would be very affordable in its origin and offer a setback for those who want to live near downtown and use its amenities, etc.
Don't forget we have to study it for 20!
- 6,123
I'll add that they were talking end to end timings for the complete route of about forty minutes and headways approximately comparable to existing. So I'll guess that they'll be changing lights even if the person you spoke with wasn't certain of it. (Can't see how they'd do that many stops and still make it forty minutes end to end otherwise.) I believe she said typical speeds would be thirtyish in the street running areas and higher elsewhere, but the capability would be generally comparable to existing. I did find it interesting that they were encouraging folks to mark up a set of sheets with comments and suggestions. (Of which there were many more on the south end than the north, sadly. Probably again reflective of population densities and access and thus who showed up to the party.) It sounded to me as well as though they'd build from the middle out. There were seven segments numbered from north to south with 4 being downtown. I'm all in favor of phased construction, but the first phase should be sections 3-5 and not just 4. That leaves me out, as my house is literally just past the edge of their segment six map, but I can wait. I'm pretty well served by the Grand bus anyway. All that said, I'll say I'm bullish on seeing this actually under construction in the next few years. We need to get something out of the tax increase we voted in or there will be heck to pay.
Keep in mind they also did the same open house on the northside. Hopefully, they got some good input there as well.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2018I'll add that they were talking end to end timings for the complete route of about forty minutes and headways approximately comparable to existing. So I'll guess that they'll be changing lights even if the person you spoke with wasn't certain of it. (Can't see how they'd do that many stops and still make it forty minutes end to end otherwise.) I believe she said typical speeds would be thirtyish in the street running areas and higher elsewhere, but the capability would be generally comparable to existing. I did find it interesting that they were encouraging folks to mark up a set of sheets with comments and suggestions. (Of which there were many more on the south end than the north, sadly. Probably again reflective of population densities and access and thus who showed up to the party.) It sounded to me as well as though they'd build from the middle out. There were seven segments numbered from north to south with 4 being downtown. I'm all in favor of phased construction, but the first phase should be sections 3-5 and not just 4. That leaves me out, as my house is literally just past the edge of their segment six map, but I can wait. I'm pretty well served by the Grand bus anyway. All that said, I'll say I'm bullish on seeing this actually under construction in the next few years. We need to get something out of the tax increase we voted in or there will be heck to pay.
- 9,566
They mentioned battery packs on trains to get it through CBD without having powerlines- when i attended the multimodal study sessions for downtown last year, the NS study group said that tech isn't there yet but they hope it will be there by the time this is operational.
I went to the northside one last night. There were a good amount of people there.
Speaking to one of the folks, she mentioned that "yes" there would be traffic signal controls.
All in all, I think it looks good. I still think they cater too much to cars. Yes, we are a car centric city. But you aren't going to encourage people to use more transit and drive less if you continue to make driving so easy. They also had too many bike lanes sharing a lane with cars.
Speaking to one of the folks, she mentioned that "yes" there would be traffic signal controls.
All in all, I think it looks good. I still think they cater too much to cars. Yes, we are a car centric city. But you aren't going to encourage people to use more transit and drive less if you continue to make driving so easy. They also had too many bike lanes sharing a lane with cars.
Are there any documents, slides, pictures available from meetings? I was unable to attend this week 
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Sure sure. But I was at the downtown one, not the southside one. Southside appeared more represented at the central one. One assumes that at northside and southside there will be more local. But the imbalance downtown was . . . maybe representative. A bit sad. Not surprising, but a bit sad. That said, yes, I should hope there was more commentary on northside at the northside meeting. All in all it's a good process.
Will try to get pictures edited and posted.
- 9,566
Free idea-private money has funded all kinds of things in St.Louis from Arch reno, SLAM exp, city garden, Soldiers Memorial reno &many others How about a $500M private money campaign to fund phase 1 of NS Metrolink.
That $500M + the City 1/2 cent sales tax to bond the rest would do the job and it would get this project done quicker than waiting 7-8 years for Fed $
That $500M + the City 1/2 cent sales tax to bond the rest would do the job and it would get this project done quicker than waiting 7-8 years for Fed $
dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 22, 2018Free idea-private money has funded all kinds of things in St.Louis from Arch reno, SLAM exp, city garden, Soldiers Memorial reno &many others How about a $500M private money campaign to fund phase 1 of NS Metrolink.
That $500M + the City 1/2 cent sales tax to bond the rest would do the job and it would get this project done quicker than waiting 7-8 years for Fed $
I think that could work if Metro could run off of its fares. As of now they would need a significant tax contribution to keep operations going. Show that people would be willing to pay 2-300 a month for a full city wide system as a car alternative and I think private investors would be on board.