A large portion of my family lives in New Jersey, you're absolutely right. The high cost of living, generally low quality of life make the state wildly unappealing. I think if STL is unsuccessful with Amazon, I think it would be worth it to throw relocation packages at northeast companies, especially those in New Jersey.ynot wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017How about the $5B in tax incentives from NJ? It would take that much for anybody to move that state. haha.Chalupas54 wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017Agreed, it's outrageous. Even tiny towns like Sioux Falls, SD and Fargo, ND are submitting proposals. It would not surprise me if Amazon doesn't announce until late 2018.ynot wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017some very interesting proposals out there. the frenzy in competition is amazing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-h ... q2-2017-10
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/dear-jeff ... ty-better/
http://www.npr.org/2017/10/16/557567180 ... ths-to-sho
https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/of ... tion-80273
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^ I believe the appeal would be New York City itself with the benefit of having a hug tax incentive of New Jersey. The appeal of being within the New York City metro area is significant and wouldn't doubt if it would out weigh any concerns about state of NJ itself. Plus the workforce to draw from would be huge
Have to agree on the of State of Jersey itself. Running a project out of the New Jersey side of Delaware Bay & none of our local crew and or vendors have anything good to say. The impression is every little town, village and township has a huge government to its population all paid for by property tax dollars. At same time, we avoid Delaware for some tax reasons that are goofy relative for out of state contractors working in other states.
Have to agree on the of State of Jersey itself. Running a project out of the New Jersey side of Delaware Bay & none of our local crew and or vendors have anything good to say. The impression is every little town, village and township has a huge government to its population all paid for by property tax dollars. At same time, we avoid Delaware for some tax reasons that are goofy relative for out of state contractors working in other states.
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I know the industry pretty well. I I wouldn't say STL is weak for comp sci but (and just my opinion here) I wouldn't say it's particularly strong either. Urbana–Champaign has a very, very, good, and by all accounts well deserved, reputation for comp sci but (A) it really isn't all that close to STL as both Indianapolis and Chicago can claim it over STL based on location and (B) I would doubt the percentage of people attending from STL or graduates going on to work in STL is all that high.
So, in the more immediate area you have Rolla and Wash U. Rolla has a really good reputation, pumps out good people, has always had tons of people from STL that often return to STL and seems to make up a lot of STL's more cutting edge, truly high tech capable workforce. WashU's comp sci program is definitely considered good, but probably behind Rolla in reputation.
Then you have UMSL which I believe has both undergrad and post-grad comp sci programs, is held in decent regard - not shabby by any means, but also not a Rolla or standout in the industry by any means.
Then I believe SLU and Webster both have comp sci programs but I've rarely heard anything out of them.
I suppose you can also count Mizzou too as a pipeline source, which has a program that seems to have a reputation similar to UMSL, maybe a little better.
Anyway, just my two cents. I think STL can, to some degree, check Amazon's box for local comp sci pipeline, but I'm sure there are cities in the running that beat it. Boston comes to mind.
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Did a little digging for curiosity's sake and found this under UIUC's Division of Management Information: http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/abst ... an_ten.htmgary kreie wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017Don't know the demographics at U of Illinois, but I would guess a lot more St. Louisans go the college there than do Indianapolitans. We are astride the border, unlike Indianapolis. My next door neighbors kid went there.
Both Indiana's and Missouri's current freshman home states are basically negligible (0.2% and 0.3%). Largest percent is (unsurprisingly) Illinois (72.5%) then outside of the country (15.2%) and then California (3.7%). The only other state with more than a fraction of a percent is New Jersey (1.2%).
The big difference is that St. Louis has 800,000 Illinoisans in it's metro and Indianapolis has zero. The U of I is the flagship university for almost a 3rd of the population of greater St. Louis.
i agree - proximity to NYC is key. the property taxes in NJ are excessive though, but this is an interesting nugget...dredger wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017^ I believe the appeal would be New York City itself with the benefit of having a hug tax incentive of New Jersey. The appeal of being within the New York City metro area is significant and wouldn't doubt if it would out weigh any concerns about state of NJ itself. Plus the workforce to draw from would be huge
Have to agree on the of State of Jersey itself. Running a project out of the New Jersey side of Delaware Bay & none of our local crew and or vendors have anything good to say. The impression is every little town, village and township has a huge government to its population all paid for by property tax dollars. At same time, we avoid Delaware for some tax reasons that are goofy relative for out of state contractors working in other states.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/20 ... rters.html
apparently newark has a city wage tax that would be waived for 20 years if amazon chooses them. was anything like that proposed for StL city's earning tax?
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Ah, good point. STL region residents who reside in the Metro East. ...Didn't realize the Metro East population had gotten that large. It would be interesting to see what percentage of UIUC student's are from the Metro East.
Also, apologies if this has been already mentioned and I missed it, but is the STL Amazon proposal a joint effort between the Metro East and STL City/County?
Right. And again, there are parts of Illinois that aren't in the St. Louis metro but still identify with or have positive feelings towards St. Louis.
Springfield, Peoria, Carbondale, Bloomington-Normal, and many small, small towns scattered in between. In someways, Champaign-Urbana itself could be on the list. These are all places that don't belong to a big city metro, and would potentially look to St. Louis as the nearest big city.
The further north you move, the more you'll see that split or lean towards Chicago, but it's definitely true that people identify with St. Louis in lots of central and southern Illinois. I don't mean to equate this to sports loyalties, but sometimes it is that simple. In the same way a city like Peoria might be 50/50 Cubs/Cardinals, it might be 50/50 St. Louis/Chicago. And honestly, sports loyalties could even be a factor... if you grew up a Cardinals family, you may be more inherently attached to St. Louis.
Anyways, I've digressed significantly. But the point is that we can absolutely "own" the fact that a top 5 computer science University is part of the make up of our larger region.
Just because St. Louis sports media refuses to treat U of I like it's of interest to locals, doesn't mean it's not a real factor in our region.
In response to San Luis Native, it is a joint effort between the City-County and the Metro East. On another note, hopefully someone can get their hands on the renderings so we know what we could be getting. Someone blew the wraps off of the Chicago plans [https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/10/16/1 ... -lakefront] and numerous other cities are unveiling their proposals. Why don't we reveal ours?
In regards to Chicago's proposal, ours is and hopefully will be unique. The river is our centerpiece, at least we chose a site that celebrates our history.
In regards to Chicago's proposal, ours is and hopefully will be unique. The river is our centerpiece, at least we chose a site that celebrates our history.
I think this is a catch-22.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017I would doubt the percentage of people attending from STL or graduates going on to work in STL is all that high.
We don't have an employer with 50k jobs with a primary focus on computer science here really, do we? Certainly not one with a major national profile.
Graduates of a top school are going to follow the top jobs with a likely preference for an area they're comfortable with. Many people at U of I would be comfortable with St. Louis, it's a matter of having the jobs to lure them. Amazon fills that hole.
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i don't understand how it matters who "claims" it. the point is that it's a pool of CS talent less than 5 hours away from which Amazon could draw if they located here (for a variety of reasons). it's ~112 mi from Indy, ~130 mi from Chicago, and ~150 mi from St. Louis. i seriously doubt a difference of 20 or 40 mi is going to make or break their decision.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017Urbana–Champaign has a very, very, good, and by all accounts well deserved, reputation for comp sci but (A) it really isn't all that close to STL as both Indianapolis and Chicago can claim it over STL based on location...
Right. And even if it did, what're the chances it comes down to those 3 cities? It can be a positive part of all three cities bids, doesn't have to just be one.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017i don't understand how it matters who "claims" it. the point is that it's a pool of CS talent less than 5 hours away from which Amazon could draw if they located here (for a variety of reasons). it's ~112 mi from Indy, ~130 mi from Chicago, and ~150 mi from St. Louis. i seriously doubt a difference of 20 or 40 mi is going to make or break their decision.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017Urbana–Champaign has a very, very, good, and by all accounts well deserved, reputation for comp sci but (A) it really isn't all that close to STL as both Indianapolis and Chicago can claim it over STL based on location...
I'll note that Illinois very much plays up the "triangle" of major cities that it sits in the middle of when it recruits students. They use all three to recruit, I think all three can use them. Also, St. Louis is always second in that triangle, most likely because, despite the extra 38 miles, a geographic half of the metro area is in their home state.
I feel like I've side tracked us too much with a U of I discussion, I just think we absolutely have a real pool of CS talent to draw from. If our leaders didn't include that, they messed up badly.
I saw a rough cut of the bid video. Narration by Jon Hamm. Lots of great shots of STL and architecture. I would give it a 6 or 7. Lots of shots of FoodRoof, Urban Chestnut, a couple others. Exactly what'd you expect out of a video like this, about 70% generic shots. Thought it did ok to show off a decent bit of architecture, focused on the river and being in the middle of the country.stlgasm wrote: ↑Oct 05, 2017I agree, but I think it's also evidence that in the eyes of the rest of the country, St. Louis is pretty much dismissed as a real contender (the recent Inc. and NYTimes editorials not withstanding, obviously).
I've seen the Explore St. Louis video from last year circulating around social media lately to help rev up the #Amazon2STL effort, and honestly I think it misses the mark completely and doesn't reflect the uniqueness and creativity of the city at all. I mean, yeah, it's polished, but every city has sports, every city has museums, every city has a zoo, and every city can cite news articles touting its "thriving tech scene." What it barely shows is what truly makes St. Louis stand out from the crowd-- our historic residential architecture, which I think is a real damn shame. Without a doubt, the first thing visitors notice is the amazing architecture EVERYWHERE. No matter where visitors come from, they are blown away by the quality and quantity of solid brick neighborhoods. Not to mention how relatively CHEAP it is. This is our strongest competitive advantage. This is our biggest selling point. And it's what makes this city so damn photogenic, so like, why not load up the B-roll with our sexy brick flats and rowhouses in local promo videos???
Hopefully the St. Louis Amazon committee will have the sense to tap the awesome creative community here- if we're going to compete against San Francisco and New York and Philly and LA, we have to bring more to the table than baseball and zebras and WalletHub quotes.
Good points, St Louis has to make the argument that their centrally located within a greater Midwest labor pool.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017i don't understand how it matters who "claims" it. the point is that it's a pool of CS talent less than 5 hours away from which Amazon could draw if they located here (for a variety of reasons). it's ~112 mi from Indy, ~130 mi from Chicago, and ~150 mi from St. Louis. i seriously doubt a difference of 20 or 40 mi is going to make or break their decision.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017Urbana–Champaign has a very, very, good, and by all accounts well deserved, reputation for comp sci but (A) it really isn't all that close to STL as both Indianapolis and Chicago can claim it over STL based on location...
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At first thought, the "comp sci pipeline requirement" is a little puzzling to me. At a glance Amazon would seem to be more of a logistics company than a traditional tech company. I suppose it's b/c of AWS and possibly future plans they have to rule the world?
"Amazon Web Services remains the company's main growth driver, growing 42% year-over-year, and generating $916 million in operating income. That's more than double the North American business's $436 million in operating income."
Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/amazon- ... -2017.html
"Amazon Web Services remains the company's main growth driver, growing 42% year-over-year, and generating $916 million in operating income. That's more than double the North American business's $436 million in operating income."
Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/amazon- ... -2017.html
St. Louis also has a strong financial securities sector, the LQ for that sector is near NYC level. This may change because of Scottrade, but that wouldn't impact their decision.
yes, they are killing it in cloud services. data centers everywhere in northern virginia.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017At first thought, the "comp sci pipeline requirement" is a little puzzling to me. At a glance Amazon would seem to be more of a logistics company than a traditional tech company. I suppose it's b/c of AWS and possibly future plans they have to rule the world?
"Amazon Web Services remains the company's main growth driver, growing 42% year-over-year, and generating $916 million in operating income. That's more than double the North American business's $436 million in operating income."
Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/amazon- ... -2017.html
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Speaking of New Jersey ... hopefully our bid...doesn’t......look like this.........
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Downtown STL and other pro-STL sites have been tweeting a lot of good materials. I highly recommend people "like" or retweet these posts just to keep visibility and momentum going.
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Keep in mind, too, that these aren't going to be 50,000 jobs anytime soon.... that will be reached only after "growing organically" from the first two phases, according to the rfp. So likely they'll need to fill maybe only 10,000-20,000 jobs in the next 5 years. allowing the chosen city to scale up with talent over time.
I don't think that would be an issue for STL or other peers; more of a concern imo is business environment stability and "urbanity" factors. .
I don't think that would be an issue for STL or other peers; more of a concern imo is business environment stability and "urbanity" factors. .
Thanks for the update. So does the pitch video have a creative spin, or a theme? Or is it just the typical "We're affordable!" "We have the best fans in baseball!" "We're #3 in livability according to Business Insider!" ?RuskiSTL wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017
I've seen the Explore St. Louis video from last year circulating around social media lately to help rev up the #Amazon2STL
I saw a rough cut of the bid video. Narration by Jon Hamm. Lots of great shots of STL and architecture. I would give it a 6 or 7. Lots of shots of FoodRoof, Urban Chestnut, a couple others. Exactly what'd you expect out of a video like this, about 70% generic shots. Thought it did ok to show off a decent bit of architecture, focused on the river and being in the middle of the country.
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We have a free zoo.stlgasm wrote: ↑Oct 17, 2017Thanks for the update. So does the pitch video have a creative spin, or a theme? Or is it just the typical "We're affordable!" "We have the best fans in baseball!" "We're #3 in livability according to Business Insider!" ?RuskiSTL wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2017
I've seen the Explore St. Louis video from last year circulating around social media lately to help rev up the #Amazon2STL
I saw a rough cut of the bid video. Narration by Jon Hamm. Lots of great shots of STL and architecture. I would give it a 6 or 7. Lots of shots of FoodRoof, Urban Chestnut, a couple others. Exactly what'd you expect out of a video like this, about 70% generic shots. Thought it did ok to show off a decent bit of architecture, focused on the river and being in the middle of the country.
Why Amazon should pick St. Louis, from Inc. Magazine (sorry if already posted):
https://www.inc.com/dustin-mckissen/if- ... cid=search
https://www.inc.com/dustin-mckissen/if- ... cid=search