St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

jshank83 · PostOct 06, 2017#39012017-10-06T18:48+00:00

----EDIT---- I originally used the wrong one. It has been updated.
New PDEW data is out.

I made a chart. This is only for Jan-March 2017 so keep the months in mind when looking at it. The PBI makes a lot more sense after looking at this.

I will add in the previous quarters later. I just don't have time right now.

mjbais1489 · PostOct 06, 2017#39022017-10-06T19:03+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Oct 06, 2017

bprop wrote: ↑
Oct 06, 2017
As money isn't produced out of thin air - what are the downsides to privatization? All I hear is that privatization would generate a huge chunk of cash for the city, that the new owner will plow in lots of money to improve the airport, and presumable the new owner will make money on top of that in the meantime. Without something on the other side of the scale, all of those things happening simultaneously is impossible.
This is what I am waiting to see. People saying it will infuse cash into the city. They will modernize the airport. Well that private company isn't handing out money from the goodness of their heart. They plan to make a return on it and get all that money back (and more) somehow. So.. I want to see how they make more money than they take out so it also it a positive gain for the city. I have yet to see how that will happen.

The downsides are exactly what you think they are - a private company's goal is profit. A public institutions goal is public service.

Does the private company raise landing fees? Do they delay upgrades to reduce capital invested? Do they leverage the asset to the detriment of the long term viability of the asset for short term goals?

I respect and admire Rex for his work in the financial field. He has saved everyday people probably billions of dollars. I do question the use "private makret forces" in an airport situation. An Airport is a scarce resource, with probably a fairly inelastic demand curve. I'm not sure if theres a "market" of airports to even have a competitive landscape within a region.

*Shrugs* but yeah theres certainly questions. Hopefully those would be asked and answered before anything happened. We'll see if that happens

mill204 · PostOct 06, 2017#39032017-10-06T20:33+00:00

mjbais1489 wrote: ↑
Oct 06, 2017
The downsides are exactly what you think they are - a private company's goal is profit. A public institutions goal is public service.

Does the private company raise landing fees? Do they delay upgrades to reduce capital invested? Do they leverage the asset to the detriment of the long term viability of the asset for short term goals?

Let's not forget... Does a private entity monetize an asset where a public entity was previously unwillingly or unable to do the same? Your landing fees example is rather opaque as the cost is rolled into the price of airfare; however, parking fees at short-term garages and long-term lots are very transparent. Could you imaging the uproar if Lambert suddenly increased the price of parking in the Terminal 2 garage by 50%? (see Chicago parking meters)

jshank83 · PostOct 07, 2017#39042017-10-07T21:38+00:00

A quote from a different message board.
---
Nope haha, I have no affiliation with Spirit. All I know was that the new hire class at Spirit was told the LAX base will be announced this coming Tuesday, and another person mentioned that IND, STL, and UIO routes are supposed to begin next year. Keep in mind that, none of this is final until it is announced though..
----

Obviously a rumor, but passing it along.

Chalupas54 · PostOct 07, 2017#39052017-10-07T21:48+00:00

jshank83 wrote:A quote from a different message board.
---
Nope haha, I have no affiliation with Spirit. All I know was that the new hire class at Spirit was told the LAX base will be announced this coming Tuesday, and another person mentioned that IND, STL, and UIO routes are supposed to begin next year. Keep in mind that, none of this is final until it is announced though..
----

Obviously a rumor, but passing it along.

Gag. But if they’re supposed to start next year, I would expect an announcement soon given next years schedule is almost all out

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jshank83 · PostOct 07, 2017#39062017-10-07T22:27+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Oct 06, 2017
----EDIT---- I originally used the wrong one. It has been updated.
New PDEW data is out.

I added the numbers for the last 4 quarters on this so you can see what the last year has looked like.

gary kreie · PostOct 08, 2017#39072017-10-08T19:43+00:00

I flew SW Airlines from Chicago into gate E38 pretty far down the old D Concourse. It was far enough that we used the East/West people mover before the first turn. I looked West and saw no barriers at all, (I think). Can one now walk all the way down to Terminal 1 Concourse C from Terminal 2?

jshank83 · PostOct 08, 2017#39082017-10-08T20:08+00:00

gary kreie wrote: ↑
Oct 08, 2017
I flew SW Airlines from Chicago into gate E38 pretty far down the old D Concourse. It was far enough that we used the East/West people mover before the first turn. I looked West and saw no gates at all. Can one now walk all the way down to Terminal 1 Concourse C from Terminal 2?

I am pretty sure it is walled off after the bathrooms/service animal relief area just past E38/40

gary kreie · PostOct 08, 2017#39092017-10-08T20:21+00:00

jshank83 wrote:
gary kreie wrote: ↑
Oct 08, 2017
I flew SW Airlines from Chicago into gate E38 pretty far down the old D Concourse. It was far enough that we used the East/West people mover before the first turn. I looked West and saw no gates at all. Can one now walk all the way down to Terminal 1 Concourse C from Terminal 2?
I am pretty sure it is walled off after the bathrooms/service animal relief area just past E38/40

Thanks. I just glanced down that way as I turned the other way. I saw a few people turning that other direction. I guess they were headed to restrooms open in that direction.

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moorlander · PostOct 09, 2017#39102017-10-09T00:09+00:00

Flew the brand new 737 max today on the way back from Austin. They are very nice and so are the all new Southwest employee uniforms.

pdm_ad · PostOct 09, 2017#39112017-10-09T11:37+00:00

moorlander wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017
Flew the brand new 737 max today on the way back from Austin. They are very nice and so are the all new Southwest employee uniforms.

Nice!

Are the interiors/seating similar to the 800s?

dabeags · PostOct 09, 2017#39122017-10-09T14:32+00:00

mill204 wrote: ↑
Oct 06, 2017

mjbais1489 wrote: ↑
Oct 06, 2017
The downsides are exactly what you think they are - a private company's goal is profit. A public institutions goal is public service.

Does the private company raise landing fees? Do they delay upgrades to reduce capital invested? Do they leverage the asset to the detriment of the long term viability of the asset for short term goals?
Let's not forget... Does a private entity monetize an asset where a public entity was previously unwillingly or unable to do the same? Your landing fees example is rather opaque as the cost is rolled into the price of airfare; however, parking fees at short-term garages and long-term lots are very transparent. Could you imaging the uproar if Lambert suddenly increased the price of parking in the Terminal 2 garage by 50%? (see Chicago parking meters)

I'd love for them to raise the Terminal 2 Garage price by 50%. Might mean there are some spots open Monday Afternoon - Thursday.

shadrach · PostOct 09, 2017#39132017-10-09T14:59+00:00

gary kreie wrote: ↑
Oct 08, 2017
I flew SW Airlines from Chicago into gate E38 pretty far down the old D Concourse.

I flew out last week on AirCanada, was really nice to see big, blue SW planes at those gates as we took off.
I distinctly remember last year at this time how sad and embarrassing those shuttered gates looked.

moorlander · PostOct 09, 2017#39142017-10-09T15:12+00:00

pdm_ad wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

moorlander wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017
Flew the brand new 737 max today on the way back from Austin. They are very nice and so are the all new Southwest employee uniforms.
Nice!

Are the interiors/seating similar to the 800s?

The interior looked like this https://airwaysmag.com/industry/first-l ... new-cabin/

PostOct 09, 2017#39152017-10-09T15:14+00:00

T2 baggage claim was an absolute zoo yesterday. They need to expand the baggage claim area with at least one more carousel but preferably two.

Chalupas54 · PostOct 09, 2017#39162017-10-09T15:23+00:00

moorlander wrote:T2 baggage claim was an absolute zoo yesterday. They need to expand the baggage claim area with at least one more carousel but preferably two.

Agreed. Maybe they could expand it as well with a larger international arrivals area?

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robertn42 · PostOct 09, 2017#39172017-10-09T17:01+00:00

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

moorlander wrote:T2 baggage claim was an absolute zoo yesterday. They need to expand the baggage claim area with at least one more carousel but preferably two.
Agreed. Maybe they could expand it as well with a larger international arrivals area?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I arrived around 8:30pm last night way down at Gate 38 and the entire terminal was madness. The terminal feels considerably larger with the expansion into D. Baggage claim and passenger pick-up were especially crazy, although my luggage arrived within 15 minutes of de-planing With all of the activity my Uber driver commented that it has been taking them 30+mins to get to the terminals from their waiting area across 70. (he cut the line on airport drive and picked me up in 10)

jshank83 · PostOct 09, 2017#39182017-10-09T17:18+00:00

robertn42 wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

moorlander wrote:T2 baggage claim was an absolute zoo yesterday. They need to expand the baggage claim area with at least one more carousel but preferably two.
Agreed. Maybe they could expand it as well with a larger international arrivals area?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I arrived around 8:30pm last night way down at Gate 38 and the entire terminal was madness. The terminal feels considerably larger with the expansion into D. Baggage claim and passenger pick-up were especially crazy, although my luggage arrived within 15 minutes of de-planing With all of the activity my Uber driver commented that it has been taking them 30+mins to get to the terminals from their waiting area across 70. (he cut the line on airport drive and picked me up in 10)

I usually pick people up at departures now. Especially if its after 8, because there aren't many people being dropped off then. Like you said, arrivals is a traffic jam. That is the one negative to having banked flights.

imperialmog · PostOct 09, 2017#39192017-10-09T17:55+00:00

Wonder if there is a plan to address the congestion issues popping up with T2? Since it is only going to get worse over time.. Though to be honest these are the good sort of problems to have these days.

Interesting looking at the PDEW numbers and note how much 1st quarter does drop off relative to rest of year. (with some exceptions) Would be interesting is how YOY comparisons would be over time, especially any place that adds nonstop service to see stimulated demand aspect. This likely gives an idea where Southwest may go next from here. Likely can combine with load factors to see if any particular route could use more seats but would only be rough guesses. The banked nature of Southwests operations, more gates available, and them gradually relying on connections more might make some routes more viable from here now due to a larger pool of connections.

jshank83 · PostOct 09, 2017#39202017-10-09T18:25+00:00

imperialmog wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017
Wonder if there is a plan to address the congestion issues popping up with T2? Since it is only going to get worse over time.. Though to be honest these are the good sort of problems to have these days.

Interesting looking at the PDEW numbers and note how much 1st quarter does drop off relative to rest of year. (with some exceptions) Would be interesting is how YOY comparisons would be over time, especially any place that adds nonstop service to see stimulated demand aspect. This likely gives an idea where Southwest may go next from here. Likely can combine with load factors to see if any particular route could use more seats but would only be rough guesses. The banked nature of Southwests operations, more gates available, and them gradually relying on connections more might make some routes more viable from here now due to a larger pool of connections.

If I have time I can update my spreadsheet tonight for past quarters and do a comparison.

gary kreie · PostOct 09, 2017#39212017-10-09T21:50+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

robertn42 wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
Oct 09, 2017

Agreed. Maybe they could expand it as well with a larger international arrivals area?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I arrived around 8:30pm last night way down at Gate 38 and the entire terminal was madness. The terminal feels considerably larger with the expansion into D. Baggage claim and passenger pick-up were especially crazy, although my luggage arrived within 15 minutes of de-planing With all of the activity my Uber driver commented that it has been taking them 30+mins to get to the terminals from their waiting area across 70. (he cut the line on airport drive and picked me up in 10)
I usually pick people up at departures now. Especially if its after 8, because there aren't many people being dropped off then. Like you said, arrivals is a traffic jam. That is the one negative to having banked flights.

When I came into gate 38 around 2 PM Saturday, it was very busy too. I counted 10 planes on the ground at Terminal 2. It was raining and the concourse was packed, maybe because some flights were delayed. Luggage was busy too, but for some reason our bags popped out right away. Then our pick-up folks got stuck in the lower level traffic for 20 minutes from the cell phone lot. I like the idea of getting picked up upstairs in the evenings.

DogtownBnR · PostOct 10, 2017#39222017-10-10T01:02+00:00

I was delayed last Wednesday until 10 PM. I watched the Blues game at the Pasta House in the East Terminal. It was very busy. The airport was extremely busy all the way up until I took off. Tons of people waiting to fly out and coming in. I have been in and out at multiple times of day the last two weeks and every time it has been packed. Not just the "busy times of day". Great to see!

bwcrow1s · PostOct 10, 2017#39232017-10-10T01:57+00:00

Off topic slightly, but when do we think they will renovate the majority of Terminal 1? It just kinda looked tired and sad when I came back from Atlanta a couple months ago.

Chalupas54 · PostOct 10, 2017#39242017-10-10T02:34+00:00

bwcrow1s wrote:Off topic slightly, but when do we think they will renovate the majority of Terminal 1? It just kinda looked tired and sad when I came back from Atlanta a couple months ago.

In what way? The airport recently underwent a massive renovation, mostly in T1. I think Terminal One looks really good.

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bwcrow1s · PostOct 10, 2017#39252017-10-10T12:28+00:00

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
Oct 10, 2017

bwcrow1s wrote:Off topic slightly, but when do we think they will renovate the majority of Terminal 1? It just kinda looked tired and sad when I came back from Atlanta a couple months ago.
In what way? The airport recently underwent a massive renovation, mostly in T1. I think Terminal One looks really good.

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I should also clarify that I'm not talking about the Terminal itself where the ticketing counters are, so to speak (the cool mid century area), but mostly the walk to the security lines and on. The terminal itself is actually one of my favorite buildings in St. Louis. There were letters missing on walls/signs, just kind of half-assed cleaning, scuffs on walls, etc. They need an interior and interactive designer to go through and draw up some new plans. Though, I know coming from ATL is leaps and bounds above us, there's just nothing that would get me super excited about landing in STL with the airport right now.

St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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