I will be disappointed if one of the three remaining parcels in phase 3 does not exceed the height of BPV2.
I’ve understood from other sources that cordish/cardinals are already talking to city about the logistics of the third phase.
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I'm not at a baseball game to look at the arch, who cares is someone on the third base line can see it. It's not going to block the view from home plate anyways, which is the shot shown on tv. The only thing it blocks is another building. It will show St. Louis building a nearly 30 story building downtown, which it hasn't done in a long time, to a national audience. I think that's a good thing. Downtown doesn't need people complaining about blocked views, like Clayton.
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Yes, but if the market does not support this the point is moot.aprice wrote: ↑Sep 26, 2017...And as for "I'd rather see 300 housing units than an arch view" my point is that the two are not mutually exclusive. An arch view from the stadium and a view of home plate from your apartment are mutually exclusive, however. And I'd rather maintain the skyline view from the stadium than have a hand full of apartments I'll never step foot in with home plate views.
I'd rather the 30 story tower at Clark & 8th, and the 10 story building at Clark & Bway.
Like it or not (and I think most on this board do not) this project garners an out sized amount of focus from within and outside the region when it comes to development in StL. I just hope this thing is built out to its original intent and size sooner rather than later, and it becomes the catalyst for bigger and better things it was promised to be when the city agreed to the new stadium ~15 years ago.
NIMBPV?aprice wrote: ↑Sep 26, 2017Am I the only one concerned about Arch views from the ballpark? This will obviously block a great view for a lot of fans, especially those sitting north of the 3rd base line. I understand that they want to give apartments views of home plate but I'd still prefer towers elsewhere and mid-rise buildings to preserve sight lines.
But then again, I'd alway rather see four 10 story buildings than one 40 story building.
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I kid...
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actually losing sitelines to the courthouse seems much more likely that losing site of the arch. I wonder if the cardinals are concerned about that...
I wonder if they will try to keep any building at Broadway and Walnut short to preserve that view from home plate....
I wonder if they will try to keep any building at Broadway and Walnut short to preserve that view from home plate....
I just got accused of being a nimby? That's hilarious.
I'm just saying that the single biggest comment about the new stadium was how much people enjoyed the view of downtown. Dominating that view with one tower just seems short sighted and not the route I would have chosen. Put all the towers you want at 8th & Clark, 8th & Walnut, and 7th & Walnut.
Slight sidebar, one thing I think about often with the massive delays on the build out of Ballpark Village is what impact it has on the lifespan and/or pre-major renovation lifespan of the stadium itself.
We know, sadly, that we live in an age where stadiums are disposable. Some last as few as 20 years, most are considered old by 30 years. That doesn't always mean a new one is needed, but it often means a new one is wanted or that big money for a renovation is asked for.
I hope that they built Busch III with a 50 year outlook at least, but I'm not overly confident of that.
With that said, BPV is something of a commitment to the area by the Cardinals. The stadium is approaching its 11th birthday, and there has been very little build out of development.
Does that tack on more time that the Cardinals will be committed to the park? Does it make it any harder for the Cardinals to ask for public help when they decide they're ready for renovations? Does it matter at all?
It's just interesting to me since the two developments are related, and one has aged while the other has barely begun.
We know, sadly, that we live in an age where stadiums are disposable. Some last as few as 20 years, most are considered old by 30 years. That doesn't always mean a new one is needed, but it often means a new one is wanted or that big money for a renovation is asked for.
I hope that they built Busch III with a 50 year outlook at least, but I'm not overly confident of that.
With that said, BPV is something of a commitment to the area by the Cardinals. The stadium is approaching its 11th birthday, and there has been very little build out of development.
Does that tack on more time that the Cardinals will be committed to the park? Does it make it any harder for the Cardinals to ask for public help when they decide they're ready for renovations? Does it matter at all?
It's just interesting to me since the two developments are related, and one has aged while the other has barely begun.
Not accused, teased. It was all in good fun, promise. Real NIMBYs often dont want towers ITBY because they'd block the view. I understand your point completely, just thought the opportunity was too good to pass up.aprice wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2017I just got accused of being a nimby? That's hilarious.
I'm just saying that the single biggest comment about the new stadium was how much people enjoyed the view of downtown. Dominating that view with one tower just seems short sighted and not the route I would have chosen. Put all the towers you want at 8th & Clark, 8th & Walnut, and 7th & Walnut.
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I think it just means you won't see the stadium move. More of a continual renovation then a rebuild. I think it gives the City more leverage next time around - what are they going to do? leave their new developments for the county?jstriebel wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2017Slight sidebar, one thing I think about often with the massive delays on the build out of Ballpark Village is what impact it has on the lifespan and/or pre-major renovation lifespan of the stadium itself.
We know, sadly, that we live in an age where stadiums are disposable. Some last as few as 20 years, most are considered old by 30 years. That doesn't always mean a new one is needed, but it often means a new one is wanted or that big money for a renovation is asked for.
I hope that they built Busch III with a 50 year outlook at least, but I'm not overly confident of that.
With that said, BPV is something of a commitment to the area by the Cardinals. The stadium is approaching its 11th birthday, and there has been very little build out of development.
Does that tack on more time that the Cardinals will be committed to the park? Does it make it any harder for the Cardinals to ask for public help when they decide they're ready for renovations? Does it matter at all?
It's just interesting to me since the two developments are related, and one has aged while the other has barely begun.
Myself, I find more charm in the old stadiums. Not like this one will ever have it, though, so perhaps that point is largely moot.
Unfortunately I think Busch 4 is inevitable. We have no idea what the next big thing is baseball stadiums will be. Retro stadium design and club seats couldn't have been predicted in the '60s. As for locations, maybe it keeps moving south down into the Chouteau Greenway? Maybe Purina will move within STL or Nestle will shut the office down and that land becomes available?
I don't see the team ever leaving downtown (or STL for that matter).
At least with Ballpark Village, we're slowly reclaiming downtown. Now we just need to do something with the stadium garages and rebuild on all of that "green space" by Eagleton.
I don't see the team ever leaving downtown (or STL for that matter).
At least with Ballpark Village, we're slowly reclaiming downtown. Now we just need to do something with the stadium garages and rebuild on all of that "green space" by Eagleton.
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I never understand why the stadium garages are so maligned. If they tear them down the next day people will say stadium needs parking and start planning their replacements. Would be nice if they would add some ground floor retail stalls though.Now we just need to do something with the stadium garages and rebuild on all of that "green space" by Eagleton.
The Eagleton greenspace though needs to go. In my mind it would be a key part of any Amazon bid.
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A subscriber-only article from the Business Journal says PwC and Rawlings are involved in Phase II.
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Article for those who'd like to read it...
PwC and Rawlings appear to be the tenants the St. Louis Cardinals are courting to anchor a 120,000-square-foot office building in the second phase of Ballpark Village, according to a marketing flier sent to real estate brokers earlier this month by the team and CBRE, the firm marketing the office portion of the development.
The flier includes logos of PwC and Rawlings on the side of the building, a designation typically reserved for anchor tenants. Ron Watermon, a spokesman for the Cardinals, said no leases have been signed and the team is likely to make announcements regarding tenants in the near future.
Also included in the marketing materials, which were obtained by the Business Journal, is information on a 220-room boutique hotel on the southwest portion of the development and a 900-space parking garage on the east end of the project.
According to the renderings, the hotel will be branded as a Live! Hotel, a new concept from Cordish, the Cardinals' development partner for Ballpark Village. The first Live! hotel is set to open in 2018 in Maryland as an expansion of the Maryland Live! Casino.
The Ballpark Village office space would be among the most costly in the region with a rent ask of $27.50 per square foot — a 34 percent premium over similar downtown office space and on par with Class A space in Clayton, the region’s most in-demand submarket.
Rick Messey, senior vice president of CBRE, said the rendering was just an example of the types of companies that could lease the space. He stressed no deals have been signed yet and that he couldn't say who — if anyone — the Cardinals might be negotiating with.
Officials with Rawlings and PwC did not immediately return requests for comment.
The Cardinals and Cordish expect to break ground on the $220 million development, which will also include a 30-story apartment tower and 75,000 square feet of new retail space, later this year. The Cardinals have said the entire second phase should be complete by 2019.
The city of St. Louis is providing $65 million in subsidies to help finance the development. The city’s Industrial Development Authority was scheduled to meet Tuesday to vote on whether to authorize $119 million in bonds to help facilitate those incentives. That meeting has been rescheduled for Oct. 3.
Currently, Rawlings leases approximately 52,000 square feet at 510 Maryville University Drive in the Maryville Centre business park in Town & Country. The building is owned by Scottrade, which was recently acquired by TD Ameritrade.
TD Ameritrade, according to real estate sources, is likely to consolidate Scottrade’slocal operations into one of two office developments it owns — multiple buildings in Maryville Centre or its Corporate Hill location in Des Peres.
The Business Journal reported in February that PwC was considering a move to Ballpark Village.
PwC currently occupies roughly 53,000 square feet near Ballpark Village at Bank of America Plaza, located at 800 Market St. The firm inked a lease extension at the building earlier this year. According to people familiar with the matter, the deal expires in two or three years, which could allow for an easy transition to Ballpark Village.
Another potential tenant frequently linked to Ballpark Village has been Fox Sports Midwest. The television station, which is currently located at 333 S. 18th St., near Union Station, has been included in previous renderings not meant for public consumption, though it wasn’t included in the CBRE marketing flier. The Cardinals acquired a 30 percent equity stake in the TV station as part of a $1 billion television rights deal signed in 2015 that takes effect next year.
A portion of the public subsidies on the project is contingent on the development’s tenants creating net new jobs for the city.
Exactly how many net new jobs would be required for Ballpark Village to receive the subsidies won’t be known until bonds are sold, officials have said.
A clause in the development agreement also allows a company already in the city to qualify as net new jobs if it tells the city’s development agency that it would have left the city if not for Ballpark Village’s new office building.
For instance, PwC officials have said they’ve also scouted other areas of the St. Louis metro area, which could satisfy the aforementioned requirement if the firm signed an affidavit.
Rawlings, having its operations outside the city, would satisfy the net new jobs requirement. It's unclear if Rawlings' interest in Ballpark Village would represent an expansion or move for the company.
Meanwhile, the marketing brochure and other previously published renderings include rudimentary views of what could be a third phase, sandwiched between the current Ballpark Village building and Walnut Street.
Cardinals President Bill DeWitt III previously told the Business Journal a phase three could come on three rectangular parcels to the north of the current plans. “Those could be anything, but set up nicely to be office or residential,” he said. “My dream would be a big company to come in and build a campus on three blocks and add some retail and add to the streetscape.”
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debaliviere wrote:A subscriber-only article from the Business Journal says PwC and Rawlings are involved in Phase II.
Renderings
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Honestly, absolutely nothing earth shattering here. Pwc was already leaked, FSMW has been discussed already, and Rawlings was the natural fit to move from the day BPV was announced back in like 2007. The Live! Hotel is also something many of us here assumed would occur (as it's Cordish). Expect to see more Cordish branded concepts moving forward, such as their coworking space and additional restaurants.
Well then. They sure took that office building and made it ugly as hell.
Clark and 7th is now 8 Floors for that Hotel whole the remaining portion appears to be 12 Floors. Also, if you look closely at the 2nd and 3rd renderings, there is a sky bridge connecting to the "Entertainment" Building.
The design on the tower appears to be refined slightly. Looks taller too.
At least it isn’t dead.
Clark and 7th is now 8 Floors for that Hotel whole the remaining portion appears to be 12 Floors. Also, if you look closely at the 2nd and 3rd renderings, there is a sky bridge connecting to the "Entertainment" Building.
The design on the tower appears to be refined slightly. Looks taller too.
At least it isn’t dead.
So "expecting" to break ground in 2017 and completing Phase II "by" 2019, got it.
Probably best to interpret "by" 2019 as "by the end of" 2019, since you can't complete a 30 story residential tower in 12 or even 15 months. Although it's also probably likely they're not planning on 30 stories of actual apartments, since the tower will sit on top of a 900 space parking garage.
Probably best to interpret "by" 2019 as "by the end of" 2019, since you can't complete a 30 story residential tower in 12 or even 15 months. Although it's also probably likely they're not planning on 30 stories of actual apartments, since the tower will sit on top of a 900 space parking garage.
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^Exactly. Trying to count the floors in the renderings above it looks like there are about ~23 floors of apartments, which would make sense. ~7 story parking podium.
As someone said above, at least it isn't dead.
The qualifications are pretty hilarious though: "A company can qualify as net new jobs if they state they were going to leave the city."
As someone said above, at least it isn't dead.
The qualifications are pretty hilarious though: "A company can qualify as net new jobs if they state they were going to leave the city."
Has anyone else been able to read all the subscriber articles for free the last week? I haven't had any trouble reading all of them and I am not a subscriber.debaliviere wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2017A subscriber-only article from the Business Journal says PwC and Rawlings are involved in Phase II.
Updated renderings!
Is it me or has the tower gotten more attractive, while the office has gotten way uglier. Either way, how many hotels does downtown need?
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Is it me or has the tower gotten more attractive, while the office has gotten way uglier. Either way, how many hotels does downtown need?
