urbanSTL

I'm not opposed on principal to extracting cash from the airport, but I do wonder why a private entity (who presumably expects to make a profit) running the airport is better for St. Louis. Wouldn't it be better for the government to extract that profit? Is it about getting the money up front? Or the ability for the private entity to invest in the airport in a way that the city on its own couldn't?

hiddeninput wrote: ↑

Mar 23, 2017

I'm not opposed on principal to extracting cash from the airport, but I do wonder why a private entity (who presumably expects to make a profit) running the airport is better for St. Louis. Wouldn't it be better for the government to extract that profit? Is it about getting the money up front? Or the ability for the private entity to invest in the airport in a way that the city on its own couldn't?

I could be wrong but currently set up doesn't allow that extraction.
Also what happens to the $100M in debt that the airport has?

How are the gates numbered? It goes from E24 to E29 E31 E33. Why are they skipping numbers?

quincunx wrote: ↑

Mar 23, 2017

How are the gates numbered? It goes from E24 to E29 E31 E33. Why are they skipping numbers?

One side is even, one side is odd. Since T2 only has one side they skip a number. Not sure why they aren't all even in T2 but I guess they decided to do odd for the connector between T2 and the old D.

^ It could be due to being an N/S alignment vs E/W. and this might be a normal numbering practice at airports too.

Updated story on airport privatization with quotes from the Director.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... ff16c.html

^from above

Airlines want to keep the cap on fees, arguing that more surcharges will drive away customers, especially those making connections who pay the fee at more than one airport.

Hamm-Niebruegge said if airlines are worried about fees, they should reconsider their fees for checking a bag or changing a ticket.

Southwest doesn't charge for either and I completely see their point about connecting passengers getting hit with multiple airport fees. We are seeing more connections here than ever with WN and it would be disappointing if the airport took action that negatively affects that.

You know, I just drove through today. Guess where else you can see the old name? All the large signs when you enter the airport from 70. Still the old name. Still the old logo. Still Lambert-St. Louis on Flightaware. The same on the airport's official Flickr page. Still Lambert-St. Louis on this thread. Of all the things to complain about . . .

Give it a little time. Some of us will never change, but the paper probably will in time. I bet they even use the official name for the Kiel Center or the TWA Dome. Whatever those names might be.

^ Or drive Highway 40 on their way to the VP Fair. Since there is a running joke about how its very hard for locals to take to a new name.

Also its of note that on private operation of the airport, is that's rather common in other parts of the world, just not in this country.

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2017

From Post Dispatch: "the director of Lambert St. Louis International Airport "

and that folks... is why the STL Post Dispatch is just a disgrace. They call the airport by the wrong name even after the airport changed it just a month ago. The television stations have even begun using the CORRECT new name but the idiots at the PD refuse to represent the changes in this city (especially for anything in a positive view or correctness). Awful.

Let the paper and writer know...
Adam Aton
aaton@post-dispatch.com

How is that different than calling it Highway 40?

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2017

Still Lambert-St. Louis on this thread.

Oh, hey, we're up to date now.

Frontier Airlines to double service from STL-DEN.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 10441.html

That's good news. I enjoy flying Frontier, especially on the A321.

I find it interesting which routes frequency increases they choose to announce and which ones they don't. They do for Southwest and apparently Frontier, but you don't see them do it for AA, United, Delta unless it is an entirely new route. For example, AA is adding a 3rd flight to Miami a day but they don't mention it.

MattnSTL wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2017

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2017

Still Lambert-St. Louis on this thread.

Oh, hey, we're up to date now.

Dang you! Getting out ahead of the curve!

Well played.

(I'm sure the big concrete airport signs will follow . . . eventually.)

Starting June 15, Air Canada is starting a 3rd daily flight to Toronto. I didn't really expect that but it is nice to see.

Do they use their own iron? I've never noticed an Air Canada aircraft at the airport, so far as I can recall. I think I might have seen their ticket counter once . . . many many years ago, when I believe there was also a Lufthansa ticket counter . . . but never an aircraft. Could just be that I'm usually there the wrong time of day, or not usually in the right place. (I think I've still never been in concourse E, oddly. And I guess their arrivals, at least, would all be there now. Lord but I'm dying to recall what the East Terminal looked like before the present building. I'd swear there was . . . something. But maybe I'm nuts.)

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2017

Do they use their own iron? I've never noticed an Air Canada aircraft at the airport, so far as I can recall. I think I might have seen their ticket counter once . . . many many years ago, when I believe there was also a Lufthansa ticket counter . . . but never an aircraft. Could just be that I'm usually there the wrong time of day, or not usually in the right place. (I think I've still never been in concourse E, oddly. And I guess their arrivals, at least, would all be there now. Lord but I'm dying to recall what the East Terminal looked like before the present building. I'd swear there was . . . something. But maybe I'm nuts.)

Yes, they do. (It's a regional carrier not mainline, but it is painted Air Canada.) They just fly 50 seat CRJ100/200 here. They are at the end of concourse A. Since Toronto has Pre Clearance they do customs in Canada before they leave, so they don't have to go to E. Their ticket counter is next to United. I think they share staff.

Ive looked through old Google Earth images and nothing was there before E (at least terminal wise). D concourse had a couple extended jetways that were over that way but not a building.

Listening to KMOX this morning, they had a brief piece with an airline analyst on, who said it's only a matter of time until STL gets a flight to Europe. He specifically mentioned British Airways, Air France, and Lufthansa as potential carriers. Obviously not very specific, but he noted that reduced fuel costs and improved fuel efficient aircraft make St. Louis more attractive.

stlcards311 wrote:Listening to KMOX this morning, they had a brief piece with an airline analyst on, who said it's only a matter of time until STL gets a flight to Europe. He specifically mentioned British Airways, Air France, and Lufthansa as potential carriers. Obviously not very specific, but he noted that reduced fuel costs and improved fuel efficient aircraft make St. Louis more attractive.

I have never heard Air France as a potential carrier. With the Bayer acquisition I really could see Lufthansa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stlcards311 wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2017

Listening to KMOX this morning, they had a brief piece with an airline analyst on, who said it's only a matter of time until STL gets a flight to Europe. He specifically mentioned British Airways, Air France, and Lufthansa as potential carriers. Obviously not very specific, but he noted that reduced fuel costs and improved fuel efficient aircraft make St. Louis more attractive.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2017/03/27/ ... rnational/

Here is an article that pretty much says what stlcards says. I would rather have Air France, but I have a feeling BA or Lufthansa is more likely. Just not WOW, please not WOW.

I also thought it was funny that article mentioned we wouldn't get a nonstop to Albany, since I have to go there this fall and getting there is not fun.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2017

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2017

Do they use their own iron? I've never noticed an Air Canada aircraft at the airport, so far as I can recall. I think I might have seen their ticket counter once . . . many many years ago, when I believe there was also a Lufthansa ticket counter . . . but never an aircraft. Could just be that I'm usually there the wrong time of day, or not usually in the right place. (I think I've still never been in concourse E, oddly. And I guess their arrivals, at least, would all be there now. Lord but I'm dying to recall what the East Terminal looked like before the present building. I'd swear there was . . . something. But maybe I'm nuts.)

Yes, they do. (It's a regional carrier not mainline, but it is painted Air Canada.) They just fly 50 seat CRJ100/200 here. They are at the end of concourse A. Since Toronto has Pre Clearance they do customs in Canada before they leave, so they don't have to go to E. Their ticket counter is next to United. I think they share staff.

Ive looked through old Google Earth images and nothing was there before E (at least terminal wise). D concourse had a couple extended jetways that were over that way but not a building.

AC does not have staff in STL, it is handled by the UA PCE personnel. In many smaller transborder stations AC has UA personnel (or UA's third party handler) also handle the AC regional departures. Larger stations like BOS, EWR, LAX, LGA, MCO, ORD, TPA, and SFO have Air Canada IAM represented personnel above the wing but third party handlers below the wing.

The LH signage had been there for some time. Years ago UA asked/paid STL and many other smaller stations to add their partners signage. This was in the earlier days of codesharing and alliances and eventually JBVs. Most itinerary receipts indicate "check-in with XXXX carrier" nowadays.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2017

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2017

Do they use their own iron? I've never noticed an Air Canada aircraft at the airport, so far as I can recall. I think I might have seen their ticket counter once . . . many many years ago, when I believe there was also a Lufthansa ticket counter . . . but never an aircraft. Could just be that I'm usually there the wrong time of day, or not usually in the right place. (I think I've still never been in concourse E, oddly. And I guess their arrivals, at least, would all be there now. Lord but I'm dying to recall what the East Terminal looked like before the present building. I'd swear there was . . . something. But maybe I'm nuts.)

Yes, they do. (It's a regional carrier not mainline, but it is painted Air Canada.) They just fly 50 seat CRJ100/200 here. They are at the end of concourse A. Since Toronto has Pre Clearance they do customs in Canada before they leave, so they don't have to go to E. Their ticket counter is next to United. I think they share staff.

Ive looked through old Google Earth images and nothing was there before E (at least terminal wise). D concourse had a couple extended jetways that were over that way but not a building.

I think what I'm looking for is earlier than the Google Earth imagery. The earliest one I'm seeing is 1996, which is about when they began construction on the current East Terminal. (What was that about folks not using the right names for things? Shoot, I forget.) But if you look at the picture, it's pretty clear that everything has been graded flat quite recently. And the white structure at the end of D looks like nothing so much as a trailer, and yet there are jetways off it and three 737s that I much suspect belong to Southwest. (Ouch, it hurts just how much busier the airport looks twenty years ago than now.) I think what you're seeing there is temporary facilities for SW after they tore down the original E concourse and East Terminal to build the new one. It was a big deal when they built that terminal. But the idea of an East Terminal wasn't new just then. It hadn't been much, really just international arrivals at the end of D, but . . . there was something there. Something we called the East Terminal in a sort of joking voice. This is all half remembered stuff, mind you. USGS has some of the images I'm looking for, I think, but I can only download it to medium resolution. Terraserver would have had it, back in the day. Lord, I miss Terraserver. Google maps has many advantages, particularly in terms of browsability, . . . but Terraserver had readier access to a wider range of historic imagery in fully one meter resolution. Older stuff.

Anyway, glancing at the old images there surely wasn't much there. It may well be that the end of D, the part past the bend, was at the time considered the East Terminal. It's quite a bit newer than the other three concourses. And "terminal" was always said with a sort of eye-roll. Or maybe it was separate, but little more than waiting rooms for charters and overflow that had to use the cargo ramp. Cargo always came up in mentions of it. Was there ever general aviation over there? Was there perhaps an office? There was clearly parking down there in the eighties. There probably wasn't a public entrance, but I can't be sure. We certainly never used it. But then . . . dad was always flying business and the rest of us only flew internationally, so it was pretty much always TWA, and thus main terminal. And these are half remembered things from when I was in high school and college, so take it with a grain of salt.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2017

I think what I'm looking for is earlier than the Google Earth imagery. The earliest one I'm seeing is 1996, which is about when they began construction on the current East Terminal.

Here is a link to older imagery but there is a hug gap before 1996 to the 70s so that doesnt help since there is literally nothing there then. It goes back to the 50s. Quality is good though. I have used the site a few times before.

https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer