urbanSTL

^ This isn't too surprising to me. Wonder if Southwest adding a 2nd non-stop over the summer was an attempt to keep competition out. That and this could be connected a bit to the SNA issue. Seems like Alaska is finding some nice niche in the e175 for connecting western Midwest to west coast service. This also means that there will be competition from every west coast market which would be good for travelers.

Interesting note: I looked up this flight on Google flights, and noticed its timed in a similar timeframe as the PDX flight, not exact but similar. Since they only have one gate something has to give in either another gate, time adjustment, or borrow a nearby gate at that time. It would be hard to imagine them taking a 2nd gate unless they want to do something more down the line like a Bay Area flight.

Condor 767-300 just made an emergency landing at KSTL. Shockingly, my uncle is aboard the plane. They apparently are being taken to the customs hall as it appears the plane is in need of significant repairs..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Condor 767-300 just made an emergency landing at KSTL. Shockingly, my uncle is aboard the plane. They apparently are being taken to the customs hall as it appears the plane is in need of significant repairs..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any clue what happened? That's crazy your uncle was on it for a flight from Frankfurt to Cancun and of all places it landed here.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Condor 767-300 just made an emergency landing at KSTL. Shockingly, my uncle is aboard the plane. They apparently are being taken to the customs hall as it appears the plane is in need of significant repairs..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any clue what happened? That's crazy your uncle was on it for a flight from Frankfurt to Cancun and of all places it landed here.

I believe a fuel line ruptured. He lives in Frankfurt and is visiting Cancun on vacation.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Alaska adding route to San Diego.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska-ai ... 00065.html

It will be interesting on how the Alaska Airline buyout of Virgin America will be play out in route expansion or not.

Also, anyone have thoughts on if Frontier would be target by Alaska Airlines in time? I understand that Frontier is low budget airline but think in time that would be seem a way to add gates, flights for either Alaska Airlines and or JetBlue as well as some competition after the legacy airlines consolidated

dredger wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Alaska adding route to San Diego.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska-ai ... 00065.html

It will be interesting on how the Alaska Airline buyout of Virgin America will be play out in route expansion or not.

Also, anyone have thoughts on if Frontier would be target by Alaska Airlines in time? I understand that Frontier is low budget airline but think in time that would be seem a way to add gates, flights for either Alaska Airlines and or JetBlue as well as some competition after the legacy airlines consolidated

Frontier and Alaska are executing completely different strategies and networks. More than likely Frontier will eventually wind up with Spirit which had the same Indigo Partners and Barry Biffle finance them until their 2011 IPO. In a few short years Frontier has gone from being one of the least profitable to among most profitable US carriers. Although they are privately held they do report certain financial information to the USDOT. Despite their local following, duking it out as #3 in Denver just wasn't working.

Alaska is focused on being a solid alternative to UA in SF and throughout the west coast. It remains to be seen what if anything they may try at LAX, but more than likely they'll stick to markets they can win and maybe do a few low risk opportunistic adds-nothing like AA, DL or even WN have been pursuing there. It remains to be seen where the LVX Airbus capacity is coming from but many believe the money losing DAL experiment is the likely casualty.

These new E-175 routes are going to be operated by AAGs wholly owned Horizon Air, not SkyWest under a capacity purchase agreement like the STL-PDX service currently is. To passengers nothing will be different-same service, same seating configurations, etc. AAG was able to get concessions from Horizon to make this growth viable, and I suspect when the Alaska mainline CBA becomes open next year this will be a point of contention.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Condor 767-300 just made an emergency landing at KSTL. Shockingly, my uncle is aboard the plane. They apparently are being taken to the customs hall as it appears the plane is in need of significant repairs..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any clue what happened? That's crazy your uncle was on it for a flight from Frankfurt to Cancun and of all places it landed here.

That is a crazy coincidence.

Still there sitting on the tarmac as of 6:30p, she's right in the center of this shot:

http://fox2now.com/live-streaming-video ... eb-camera/

pdm_ad wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 15, 2017

Condor 767-300 just made an emergency landing at KSTL. Shockingly, my uncle is aboard the plane. They apparently are being taken to the customs hall as it appears the plane is in need of significant repairs..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any clue what happened? That's crazy your uncle was on it for a flight from Frankfurt to Cancun and of all places it landed here.

That is a crazy coincidence.

Still there sitting on the tarmac as of 6:30p, she's right in the center of this shot:

http://fox2now.com/live-streaming-video ... eb-camera/

I read they are sending them another plane. They have to spend the night in the airport. It doesn't seem to be in the air yet, where ever it is coming from (guessing Frankfurt). I guess they can't just find a partner to do a charter from or something to get them to Cancun. It sucks having to wait on another plane all the way from Europe.

I noticed something odd on the Alaska announcement yesterday and checked google flights to see how it lines up. Mainly the times their planes are here during the day.

STL-PDX arrives here 140pm leaves 235pm
STL-SAN arrives here 140pm leaves 220pm

They only have one gate right now. So something is up with this where they have to do something.

Also not much change in the Southwest schedule extension, note since nothing seems permanently axed its unlikely anything will for some time since If they were looking at it they would do so on this one with the fleet issues most pressing. Interesting is they are still keeping the 2nd Austin flight, maybe its going to be like the 2nd Raleigh and New Orleans one where its there large parts to even majority of the year. Or its doing so well they switched from seasonal to permanent add. That wouldn't be too surprising since it may be a route with fast demand growth due to the growing startup and tech community here. and of course they still have the odd timing with the OAK and SFO flights.

STL loses 5 flights with the new Southwest schedule, 1 each to Boston, New Orleans, Orlando, Panama City & San Diego.

Panama City's seasonal service ends for the year with this flight cut.

Greg

gregl wrote: ↑

Mar 16, 2017

STL loses 5 flights with the new Southwest schedule, 1 each to Boston, New Orleans, Orlando, Panama City & San Diego.

Panama City's seasonal service ends for the year with this flight cut.

Greg

Charleston is gone also. I am pretty sure all those are seasonal changes based on what was put out when they were added. I know Charleston, Boston, New Orleans, San Diego, and Panama City(like you said) are seasonal. I am assuming the Orlando one is also, but I don't know for sure on that one.

In other news. I walked over to the D concourse today. They almost have all the tile in. The Condor plane is still sitting in the same place. I am curious how big a fix it is going to be and if they will need to tow it to a hanger or someone can just do it where it is. I took a couple pics I can post later.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Mar 16, 2017

I noticed something odd on the Alaska announcement yesterday and checked google flights to see how it lines up. Mainly the times their planes are here during the day.

STL-PDX arrives here 140pm leaves 235pm
STL-SAN arrives here 140pm leaves 220pm

They only have one gate right now. So something is up with this where they have to do something.

Also not much change in the Southwest schedule extension, note since nothing seems permanently axed its unlikely anything will for some time since If they were looking at it they would do so on this one with the fleet issues most pressing. Interesting is they are still keeping the 2nd Austin flight, maybe its going to be like the 2nd Raleigh and New Orleans one where its there large parts to even majority of the year. Or its doing so well they switched from seasonal to permanent add. That wouldn't be too surprising since it may be a route with fast demand growth due to the growing startup and tech community here. and of course they still have the odd timing with the OAK and SFO flights.

The schedule they have loaded is likely a dummy schedule, even though it ran in a news release. Mid-December is far enough out that there will probably be changes to at least PDX. They can totally operate from a single gate (C15) no need to go through the expense of leasing an additional gate and putting in terminal equipment fixtures to suit their operation. What I could see them doing is working a deal with F9 to use their adjacent gate on a per departure gentlemens agreement basis as I believe F9 occasionally uses Alaska's leased gate (C15) in the morning hours.

Nine months is an incredibly long lead time for a new domestic flight between two existing established stations, but AS is known to fly planes once they receive them-rather than entering them to active service but bringing down said fleet type's utilization like many carriers would do. They also aren't shy on starting new service in the winter season.

A nine month lead time would generally be for something like a new high profile long haul international route using a scare widebody aircraft to a new station where the carrier would need to establish local management, staff/contracted handler, crew hotels, etc. Something like this would usually be 3-6 months tops.

Every few months or so, we burst open the London can of worms. Since I don't have really vast "insider" knowledge, anyone have any updates? also, before this conversation begins, let's remember we are not here to bash St Louis. I am only inquiring if there is any 'development'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Mar 17, 2017

Charleston is gone also. I am pretty sure all those are seasonal changes based on what was put out when they were added.

Charleston hasn't even started. June it begins.

Those cuts don't make any sense... are you sure your're looking at those correctly.

Yes, It starts in June and ends Sep 30. It is a just a summer route. Like Pensacola. They will likely come back next summer. The flights we were talking about were in relation to the new Southwest schedule that just came out which is for October.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 17, 2017

Every few months or so, we burst open the London can of worms. Since I don't have really vast "insider" knowledge, anyone have any updates? also, before this conversation begins, let's remember we are not here to bash St Louis. I am only inquiring if there is any 'development'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At this point the uncertainty of what U.K. Aviation policy post Brexit looks like and how BA and the JBV respond certainly isn't helping this routes case but I wouldn't call it a major hindrance perse but it's definitely something that needs to be considered. Particularly since more so than BAs other US routes (JFK, MIA, LAX, BOS, etc) this route would have a greater share transiting onward to other points in the European Union. CEO Alex Cruz recently spoke about this at the Wings Club in New York (it's on YouTube if you are interested).

Other than that, absent support from the business community it will continue to be an uphill battle for Lambert. I do still maintain that *if* an LHR route were to come to fruition, the AA metal and product would be better suited for this market. Perhaps a 763 or longer term the 787-8 (or perhaps A330-200 once the operational integration of the LUS side occurs next year) would be best suited here, but still a lot of capacity and premium seats to fill. Having AA operate the route would be lower risk since they already have an established presence in STL, and despite the hard feelings many here have for the company it does remain one of the larger LAA spoke cities and still has capabilities necessary to support a flight like this with aircraft maintenance, stores (stocking parts), Admirals Club, and a ~200 person F/A base. On that front it would be relatively easy to implement the SLT (not a typo) base that would be interested in bidding for this potential trip would have to go down to Ft. Worth and get qualified on the equipment if they aren't already (which most out of SLT/STL wouldn't be). In contrast BA would have to go through the expense of furnishing equipment and fixtures, contracting with a ground handler, obtaining counter space, etc when having AA operate this one makes the most sense. Plus, the lions share of the point of sale would be on the STL side and despite all the cuts people in STL do still have an affinity with AA from the hub years and TWA asset purchase.

These are all objective cold hard facts along with my appraisal of the situation. Hopefully we can have a mention of AA without the company bashing.

That's a vey interesting proposition regarding American. I'm interested to see if there have been any discussion about this on their end. If I'm not mistaken, we do know for fact that the airport has spoken with Lufthansa, BA, and Condor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the airport had the most serious discussions with Lufthansa and Condor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 19, 2017

That's a vey interesting proposition regarding American. I'm interested to see if there have been any discussion about this on their end. If I'm not mistaken, we do know for fact that the airport has spoken with Lufthansa, BA, and Condor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the airport had the most serious discussions with Lufthansa and Condor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, AA/BA/IB have a joint venture with anti-trust immunity and has been in place since September 2010. Any capacity planning, fares, new routes, even certain elements of onboard service are coordinated and made jointly between the JBV partners.

I have no doubt the airport has met with representatives for LH and a slew of other carriers. Airlines and aviation is a very relationship centered industry and many meetings take place before anything happens, if ever. Massport, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Combined Jewish Philantrophies, Israel Consulate General of New England met with El Al a half dozen times before they saw the value of sending through passengers onward on JetBlue and resumed service to Logan.

Airlines and airports attend a conference called Routes which is like speed dating between carriers and prospective airports.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 19, 2017

That's a vey interesting proposition regarding American. I'm interested to see if there have been any discussion about this on their end. If I'm not mistaken, we do know for fact that the airport has spoken with Lufthansa, BA, and Condor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the airport had the most serious discussions with Lufthansa and Condor?

Raleigh Durham (RDU) has flights to both LHR and CDG. AA does the flight to LHR with either B767s or B777s, while Delta operates the CDG flight with B757s or B767s. RDU does not have as much passengers going through it as Lambert does, yet they have quite a bit of flight options for a city its size. I would think it be due to the business community along with the tech and pharmaceutical companies in the triangle that help sustain those flights there.

I would think if STL got flights to Europe it would be with a US legacy carrier.

^ also helps is that they are in 757 range lowering risk and any hubs not in the NE corridor is a backtrack.

Just me or is the hard feelings for AA odd since at this point its almost a decade, the people involved not there, and most importantly its technically AA in name only since it was US Airways that bought them and took the AA name due to brand recognition.

Yes the Brexit issue is something that is a factor, the other issue too is a slump in tourism to the US due to current politics. This is a thing since a friend of mine is very uncomfortable about visiting here due to this. Though that might not hurt the case here so much as demand to/from Europe from here is overwhelmingly from this end but may be something to watch when BA starts up New Orleans this month since its a lot more split on which side traffic originates. But also note there may be more people here going to the UK since one consequence of Brexit is a much weaker Pound making visiting significantly cheaper, and i'll likely be visiting a friend there again soon. Note: I also remember seeing somewhere that BA does get a few more 787-8 by next spring so that's something to watch for.

One note with Lufthansa, is could recent corporate acquisitions of local companies by German companies be a factor? Since it could result in increase in business traffic and also could create cargo needs that a flight could also fulfill, since cargo can be something that tips the scales in viability.

RDU has a revenue guarantee in place through the Research Triangle Partnership. There is also a very small (~50 F/A) base at RDU, but the cockpit lines are out of DFW/MIA/ORD depending on the bid month.

AA HDQ has completely been turned upside down, most LAA people have either left, been let go, or are actively looking to leave. Certain departments still have a good number of LAA leadership like cargo and revenue management but on lower levels it's more LUS and cheap new hires since 2014. AA invested and tried to recruit MBAs from top b-schools and other than a few with a soft spot and interest in the airlines they didn't get many takers from the HBS, Sloan, and Whartons of the world. Now instead of getting people from the likes of SMU they would sooner have 2-3 undergrads from state schools they can get excited about non-rev travel and churn through. So yes, for the most part AA exists in name only.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Mar 19, 2017

^ also helps is that they are in 757 range lowering risk and any hubs not in the NE corridor is a backtrack.


One note with Lufthansa, is could recent corporate acquisitions of local companies by German companies be a factor? Since it could result in increase in business traffic and also could create cargo needs that a flight could also fulfill, since cargo can be something that tips the scales in viability.

This exactly. I will say, even though my uncle was on board and it wasn't here for a good reason, it looked good having a Condor 763 on the tarmac. I wonder what incentives PIT pitched to get Condor.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 19, 2017

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Mar 19, 2017

^ also helps is that they are in 757 range lowering risk and any hubs not in the NE corridor is a backtrack.


One note with Lufthansa, is could recent corporate acquisitions of local companies by German companies be a factor? Since it could result in increase in business traffic and also could create cargo needs that a flight could also fulfill, since cargo can be something that tips the scales in viability.

This exactly. I will say, even though my uncle was on board and it wasn't here for a good reason, it looked good having a Condor 763 on the tarmac. I wonder what incentives PIT pitched to get Condor.

I know PIT paid WOW 800k over 2 years for their route. I imagine Condor would be higher. I can't find their number though.