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Roberts Brothers - Demolitions and the future of St. Louis

Roberts Brothers - Demolitions and the future of St. Louis

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PostJan 31, 2008#1

Over at Curious Feet St. Louis, there is news of the impending demolition of a Roberts Brothers owned commercial building at the corner of Page and Kingshighway.



Picture is courtesy of Curious Feet:







With the this news and the threat of demolition of the commercial building at Page and Union, there is a very disturbing continuance of the very trend that continues to rob north St. Louis of its ability to improve and shed its negative reputation. Vacant lots and destroyed history cannot be the path of development in north St. Louis--or anywhere in the city. Certainly, it is economically feasible for the Roberts Brothers to stabilize this handsome building and in doing so keep a modicum of urbanity on a dreary stretch of Kingshighway. We have let too much go in too many parts of the city to where now it is uncertain whether some neighborhoods will ever recover.



It's hard for me to believe our city and its entrepreneurs allow demolition by neglect of our astounding architectural heritage. The news that two Ittner buildings in the BJC complex will likely be demolished for the "campus" expansion seems to just further the point that St. Louis is a city too weak to even declare an identity.



It cannot decide if it will steadfastly protect its history and heritage, its only true assets when it comes down to it, and promote preservation as economic development. Note that St. Louis's shining examples of success, the Loft District and the nascent movement to restore and redevelop Old North St. Louis as a whole derive from two positive, yet highly site specific preservation successes.



In the Loft District, positioned near to the CBD and the commercial core of the city, a determined and concerned group of business and civic leaders noticed an attractive, urban streetscape that had been simply too grand in scale to demolish wholesale. And so Wash Ave. remains and shines. There was nothing too fancy involved in this redevelopment plan. Yes, streetscape improvements and a one-way to two-way street conversion. But in reality, the historicity of the buildings and their worth in an urban context spoke for themselves.



In ONSL, the opposite is true. Much of the urban fabric has in fact been lost. And yet, enough has remained to instill passion in some of St. Louis's most ardent and valued preservation and neighborhood activists. Working with much less than the Loft District, the people and allies of ONSL are nevertheless lobbying to reinstate everything that made the neighborhood so livable and attractive--walkability, accessibility to jobs, safety, etc.



Is either redevelopment perfect? No. The Loft District isn't quite attracting a retail boom downtown and ONSL, in the name of history, has allowed some passable but kind of blase infill. Regardless, these two scenarios involve a common element that is essential to the future of our city. They both celebrate that St. Louis is actually a city, an urban environment and both attend to the needs of that urbanity. As a result, both are becoming increasingly livable neighborhoods with snowballing activity.



But much of the depressed parts of St. Louis, of which there are too many, there is little drive to recognize that St. Louis is a city worth saving, or that it is a city at all. Parking lots and strip centers do not a city make.



But back to the identity crisis in St. Louis: With its stagnant economy also comes a toxic inability to demand anything other than mediocrity, which comes at a lower cost. And so neither a strengthened past nor a brightened future seems set for St. Louis. This is an important point. Many cities across the country have failed to preserve their history, but their economies and job opportunities kept them afloat long enough to reestablish themselves. And, of course, many cities have accomplished both forging a new identity and salvaging that which once made them great (Pittsburgh comes to mind as a poster child).



My whole point is that a large, powerful company like Roberts and its two business/civic leaders should not so nonchalantly allow the demolition of this corner structure. It is but one building, true. But St. Louis's piecemeal destruction, except in the days of renewal, has always been that way. And it continues unabated for areas not within local historic district designation.



What road will St. Louis take? Salvage our past? Forge a new future? Or both?



Oh, and, by the way, anyone have an email or phone number for the Roberts Brothers?

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PostJan 31, 2008#2





"We're gonna knock down a building!!!!!"

710
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710

PostJan 31, 2008#3

Ive actually referred to this very building in discussing the potential of this area of north saint louis. it reminds me of presence and scale of the furniture stores on milwaukee ave in chicago.



It seems to be apparent now that we can only hope to rebuild and concentrate on small areas of North Saint Louis like ONSL, lest we be left with a piecemeal built envrionment too damaged by demolition and autocentric architecture to have any semblence of history and desirable urban ambiance.



This is an important and defined urban intsersection with a clear sense of history and place...It seems strange to me though that the Roberts Brothers would want to continue to degrade an area of North City with so much urban potential being so close to the Central West End?

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PostJan 31, 2008#4

Exactly. Well said. ^

1,364
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PostJan 31, 2008#5

It's a handsome building. Hopefully something can be done to save it.

3,785
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PostFeb 01, 2008#6

I took these photos with Claire Nowak-Boyd.



It will not be saved.



Their information:



1408 N Kingshighway Blvd

St Louis, MO 63113

(314) 367-4600



Apparently the building was hit by a driver after they bought it. The column, which supported the front of the building, was then stolen as the Roberts Brothers didn't bring it inside. Thus they are demolishing the building even though it was once occupied with businesses and they have the finances to fix it.



West of Kingshighway there is the Mt. Cabanne/Raymond Place National Register District, thus a demolition of this type would require the approval of the Preservation Board. Yet the Eastern side is not in a historic district, not even Preservation Review. This shows the lack of continuity in our planning process in that owners, due to negligence, are able to demolish their historic properties even if the property is 20 feet outside a district. This shouldn't be allowed because it is a Merit structure and the owner clearly has the resources for rehabilitation.



Personally I believe these major intersections should be under review as their urban and historic form are essential to the fabric of our City. This is an egregious offense and example of how simply having wealth does not coincide with responsibility. Sadly, due to negligence, this beautiful building, at the beginning of the historic Fountain Park Neighborhood, will be wrecked. The two buildings on Page to the east will go as well. A strip mall will probably replace it, if anything at all.



Lets congratulate the Roberts Brothers for destroying this wonderful intersection. And lets weep because the North Side is rapidly being dismantled not only by insidious phantoms like Paul McKee, but by our own business elite. Unfortunately our Aldermen lack the political fortitude to take a stand. Obviously campaign finance, coupled with a fundamental deficiency regarding planning, explains their inaction!
































2,430
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PostFeb 01, 2008#7

West of Kingshighway there is the Mt. Cabanne/Raymond Place National Register District, thus a demolition of this type would require the approval of the Preservation Board. Yet the Eastern side is not in a historic district, not even Preservation Review.


One of the most basic things you learn in planning school (or rather should learn) is that when doing any type of local plan (be it historic, redevelopment, etc) you should take both sides of a street. The center of major streets always seems like a good place to divide neighborhoods and redevelopment areas, but it is a horrible idea from a planning perspective because you end up with situations like the above.

2,821
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PostFeb 01, 2008#8

No reason that damage can't be fixed and it wouldn't cost much. Yeah the Roberts Brothers are great people... :roll:

3,762
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PostFeb 03, 2008#9

has this been scheduled for demo? already under demo? except for the corner directly above the lost column this building looks perfectly sound, and easily fixable. it's pretty obvious they were just waiting for an excuse to clear it ... is there a walgreen's anywhere near this intersection? by near i mean within a block. if not, there will be now.

3,311
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PostFeb 05, 2008#10

just look at the ROBERTS VILLAGE or whatever that hideous strip mall is called on North Kingshighway. I can't believe they are allowed to build STRIP MALLS in the city... Why are these allowed? why are they allowed in Soulard?! who's in charge here?

5,433
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PostFeb 05, 2008#11

jlblues wrote:No reason that damage can't be fixed and it wouldn't cost much. Yeah the Roberts Brothers are great people... :roll:


Yeah, and to think that Mayor Slay and Rollin Stanley have been recognized for, among other things, historic preservation. What a joke! We have so many success stories in this city, yet we have blithely squandered so much of what makes our city unique and special relative to other metro areas- its built environment. And it seems like the powers that be, whether we're talking about elected officials or developers, are never going to get it. :roll: :hell:


JMedwick wrote:One of the most basic things you learn in planning school (or rather should learn) is that when doing any type of local plan (be it historic, redevelopment, etc) you should take both sides of a street. The center of major streets always seems like a good place to divide neighborhoods and redevelopment areas, but it is a horrible idea from a planning perspective because you end up with situations like the above.


And it's painfully evident that no one in charge in the City of Saint Louis was awake during Urban Planning 101, nor were they awake on their last trip to Chicago or Boston- or even Pittsburgh or Cleveland for that matter. We should strive to make the best Saint Louis possible by building on our unique strengths and not parroting what other cities do, but that doesn't mean we should completely ignore the best practices used in other places. Between the senseless demolitions like this one, the tacky strip malls touted as some sign of progress, and the predilection with half-arsed and unrealized plans like the 34 Gateway Mall proposals, it seems increasingly difficult to find anyone in charge that actually has a clue.

3,549
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PostFeb 05, 2008#12

I just wonder how much of St. Louis built environment are they going to destroy before St. Louis is no longer known for historic architecture but instead backwards politics and sh*tty projects. Planning that takes place in the sunbelt should never mix in with rust belt politics. SCREW STRIP MALLS. St. Louisans constantly piss me off, we could easily market St. Louis's urban architecture and I'm sure numerous out of town yuppies would buy up these old gems and redevelop them. Thats what cities like Boston do..... its all about civic pride and this city has ZERO!

PostFeb 05, 2008#13

By the way sprawly sunbelt towns would kill to have St. Louis architecture and they even preserve their "historic parts of town", the city of St. Louis itself is our historic part of the metro including many inner suburbs and we piss on her.

2,093
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PostFeb 05, 2008#14

^good point. When I was in Jacksonville a few years ago--which is about as sprawly a sunbelt city as you can get (aren't they like 8000 sq. miles??) they advertised "St. Louis style brick".

So why are we tearing it down again?

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PostFeb 05, 2008#15

southsidepride wrote:^good point. When I was in Jacksonville a few years ago--which is about as sprawly a sunbelt city as you can get (aren't they like 8000 sq. miles??) they advertised "St. Louis style brick".

So why are we tearing it down again?


Yeah Jacksonville is a sprawly hellhole and will probably cease to exist when gas becomes scarce, but I wouldnt be suprised if the Robert Brothers and other brick theives sold them it. There are St. Louis bricks in cities around America. There should be an ordinance that says you cant build in St. Louis unless the project is atleast 75% brick. St. Louis is known as brick city.

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PostFeb 05, 2008#16

^That ordiance would mean that there would be no Park East Lofts or no Art House, and I don't think that those knew BELT houses are brick either.

3,762
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PostFeb 05, 2008#17

so does anyone know WHEN this is supposed to be demolished? all i found was date of condemnation = 1/10/08. there is no way to contest this?

995
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PostFeb 05, 2008#18

Some options to stop a demolition that is not in a preservation review district or a local historic district:



(1) Buy the building

(2) Convince the owners not to demolish it

6,662
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PostFeb 05, 2008#19

Not some, that is all.

3,785
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PostFeb 05, 2008#20

The obvious long term solution is new political leadership.

508
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508

PostFeb 05, 2008#21

I just wonder how much of St. Louis built environment are they going to destroy before St. Louis is no longer known for historic architecture but instead backwards politics and sh*tty projects. Planning that takes place in the sunbelt should never mix in with rust belt politics. SCREW STRIP MALLS. St. Louisans constantly piss me off, we could easily market St. Louis's urban architecture and I'm sure numerous out of town yuppies would buy up these old gems and redevelop them. Thats what cities like Boston do..... its all about civic pride and this city has ZERO!




I wouldnt say ZERO..... more like .1% as in those of us on this forum.... Not to live in the past, but when you look at the big picture, and compare the stats of St. Louis today versus 100 years ago, we pretty much already are no longer known for historic architecture but instead backwards politics and sh*tty projects. (All due respect to the recent resurgence and the cool projects that have happened in the last 6 years)

5,433
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PostFeb 05, 2008#22

Doug wrote:The obvious long term solution is new political leadership.


Yep. The more I look around, the more I get the impression that the majority of people in power simply don't seem to care.

3,549
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PostFeb 05, 2008#23

Shimmy wrote:^That ordiance would mean that there would be no Park East Lofts or no Art House, and I don't think that those knew BELT houses are brick either.


of course I would let residential towers go beyond this ordinance but I would completely outlaw siding in the city

274
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PostFeb 05, 2008#24

That St. Louis brick is a shame, I see so many buildings dismantled to sell off our bricks but the buildings we put in their place are crap. I don't quite understand. I agree there should be no "75% brick" ordinance or anything, but just whatever is done as infill should use less tacky architecture styles.



As far as civic pride goes, I think there is a lot of it, but just not a lot of knowhow to really do something with it. It ultimately takes money to do something about it. As everything goes in this country, you must follow the money. If for some reason you can make a better short term profit by tearing down historic buildings then, without proper preservation laws, why wouldn't an opportunistic real estate developer take advantage? We desperately need some form of preservation rules here like so many other places have. When will this leadership across the board here wake up and see what we are losing. Tax credits aside, even more must be done, especially on our major thoroughfares and important intersections. I am a pretty young guy, so much of the city has looked pretty bad since I've been old enough to pay attention, but just even in my time I've seen Southtown Famous, the Century and so many others not even to mention the countless single-family and multi-family residential buildings throughout the city get destroyed. Such a shame.

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PostFeb 05, 2008#25

Any city/town with a fraction of the historic built environment that St. Louis has should have a comprehensive preservation ordinance. Period.

All preservation ordinances should have provisions for preventing demolition by neglect. Period.

The city's leadership has dropped the ball in this department.

Get used to it. Many of the people that we desperately need to be on board as far as urban planning and preservation goes are like buffalo hunters in the old west. They thought that the buffalo were so abundant that they could kill them with complete impunity. By the time they were done, an entire way of life, and almost an entire species, had been lost.

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