Enjoyed an evening in CWE today and I must say, the Euclid corridor sure is hopping on a Tuesday night. With Citizen Park finished, the Euclid rising and One Hundred to begin soon, I can and can't imagine how dense this neighborhood will become more than it already is. What do you think the future of this area looks like, more dense or slowed growth?
^ CWE is definitely dense by St. Louis standards, but it's average urban density for many large coastal cities. So I would say the CWE can get more dense and will definitely get more dense. There is still a significant amount of vacant lots in the CWE and throughout the central corridor.
Here are photos showing the density of the area and how urban it really looks.goat314 wrote: ↑May 31, 2017^ CWE is definitely dense by St. Louis standards, but it's average urban density for many large coastal cities. So I would say the CWE can get more dense and will definitely get more dense. There is still a significant amount of vacant lots in the CWE and throughout the central corridor.
The next one is a great street wall.
^ & ^^^ Starting a topic and then immediately posting something completely off topic to self-promote one's own site. Nice.
Not trying too. I had this Forum idea for some time. It's all supposed to tie in. If anyone else can find stories similar to mine or not about density in St. Louis, I welcome that. Not trying to promote my website at all, just trying to share my pictures of the neighborhood without having to go through the "coding" process on Google Chromewabash wrote:^ & ^^^ Starting a topic and then immediately posting something completely off topic to self-promote one's own site. Nice.
In other words, I'll remove the story and post the photos using my phone.
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The Central West End's density (population wise) is much more impressive when you consider the fact that roughly 1/3 of the land is occupied by BJC/Cortex/Ikea. That means the residential section density is probably over 10k/sq mi.
A reminder of just how much has been (and is being) added since circa Fall 2004:
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More shocking is just how little multi-family had been added for a long time before then. This blurb in a construction trade website noting the opening of the Metrolofts at Forest Park Ave. & Euclid starts starts with: "The first new apartment community in St. Louis’ Central West End neighborhood in nearly 30 years opened its doors recently."
More shocking is just how little multi-family had been added for a long time before then. This blurb in a construction trade website noting the opening of the Metrolofts at Forest Park Ave. & Euclid starts starts with: "The first new apartment community in St. Louis’ Central West End neighborhood in nearly 30 years opened its doors recently."
Cool photo. It really shows what a difference 14 years makes. I wonder what vacant lot will be next for a proposal (besides the already known BJC Ambulatory care center at Taylor and Forest Park). My bets are split between Kingshighway and Lindell or Euclid and Lindell. I wish that cool building at Taylor and Lindell was still standing. Great Mid Century modern design but sadly, a parking lot for Rosati Kain is there now (as everyone knows)
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I get about 1.3 sq. miles for CWE north of Forest Park Ave. so 11,000+ ppl./sq. mile in the residential sector. Of course there's the residential work going on at the old Shriner's. so that will add a few more souls south of FPA.... and if Cortex ever makes their long-sought mixed-use aspirations a reality.cardinalstl wrote: ↑Jun 07, 2017The Central West End's density (population wise) is much more impressive when you consider the fact that roughly 1/3 of the land is occupied by BJC/Cortex/Ikea. That means the residential section density is probably over 10k/sq mi.
I truly miss the old orange medical building that stood at the NE corner of Euclid & West Pine (where the Orion/Whole Foods now stands). It wasn’t sexy or upscale, but it was urban and functional, and was tall enough to make an impact on the CWE skyline (as evident in that aerial pic posted above). I remember when Subway was located Euclid-facing retail space of that building. I miss the Round Building even more. Damn, that one was a big loss for our urban skyline, and the driveway-centric, inward-facing townhouse development that replaced it is the epitome of 1990s faddishness. They are the shoulder pads of urban architecture (which means they will probably eventually become hipster pads if they stick around long enough!), lol.
I hate when people use "poor urban design" as an excuse when tearing down modernist buildings. These buildings can easily be adapted or they just need to be used properly. And ultimately they're not being torn down for their poor relation with the street, they're being torn down because people find them outdated and aren't creative enough to value their historic value.
A restaurant pavilion structure could have been built at Euclid and West Pine and the round tower could have been high end residential. And despite the name of this thread, there's still plenty of parking lots in the CWE to build on.
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I pretty much agree with goat's comment...
We can easily reach 20,000 people in CWE (from the 14,400 in 2010 Census and likely another 1,000+ added since) through infill in the neighborhood. I think once we reach a population level closing in on 50,000 between a seamless Downtown-Downtown West-Midtown/Grand Center-CWE corridor we'll have reached a solid density for the area that will make one feel they really are in a thriving urban environment. That's roughly 10,000 people per sq. mile and will require a lot of infill work to accomplish, especially between 14th Street and Grand. But the land is there for sure.goat314 wrote: ↑May 31, 2017^ CWE is definitely dense by St. Louis standards, but it's average urban density for many large coastal cities. So I would say the CWE can get more dense and will definitely get more dense. There is still a significant amount of vacant lots in the CWE and throughout the central corridor.
Restore the street grid, enhance bus service, build a single dedicated bicycle highway from downtown to CWE. If the Chouteau Greenway feeds into the CWE south of Forest Park Ave, it'll be great for Barnes employees living downtown but it won't help residents living north of Forest Park Ave get to downtown. Sorry for getting off topic here but this would be my ideal CWE to Downtown greenway trail. And yes, going through Wells Fargo like that would actually be possible. (also, I did this in photoshop 3 years ago so the Google Earth image is very outdated)STLrainbow wrote: ↑Apr 04, 2018I think once we reach a population level closing in on 50,000 between a seamless Downtown-Downtown West-Midtown/Grand Center-CWE corridor we'll have reached a solid density for the area that will make one feel they really are in a thriving urban environment.
Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 1.02.21 PM by Alex Price, on Flickr
Looks like that sign has been there for almost 4 years. Guess I was too busy looking out for jaydrivers to notice. I fixed it.
The construction of Citizen Park, The Orion, The Euclid and One Hundred Above the Park, as well as the AC Hotel going up on York, has really accentuated the availability and viability of the large vacant lots at Lindell & Euclid and Lindell & Kingshighway. The contrast between One Hundred and the parking lot between the St. Regis and Kingshighway is particularly stark.
Hopefully those two are developed whenever the next economic expansion gets on its feet.
Hopefully those two are developed whenever the next economic expansion gets on its feet.
If 100 is successful, I could see Mac Properties buying the Lindell and Kingshighway lot from the Koplar Family or co-develop something with them.wabash wrote:The construction of Citizen Park, The Orion, The Euclid and One Hundred Above the Park, as well as the AC Hotel going up on York, has really accentuated the availability and viability of the large vacant lots at Lindell & Euclid and Lindell & Kingshighway. The contrast between One Hundred and the parking lot between the St. Regis and Kingshighway is particularly stark.
Hopefully those two are developed whenever the next economic expansion gets on its feet.
I could also see them buy the parking lot directly East of 100 and build a small apartment building there.
Couple of random shots of some of the newish buildings in the CWE. I walked Sarah between the Cortex station and Lindell today and it's a really, really nice looking corridor. Few more holes that need to be filled in...especially south of FPA, but it's looking good.
This one looks really great, I think:
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Couple from Euclid:
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This one looks really great, I think:
Couple from Euclid:
Sarah and Laclede has become my favorite intersection in the CWE
The neighborhood will get denser with another project should be announced very soon. Stay tuned!
So between that, Optimist, 41Lindell, Bridge at Delmar and Euclid, and 490 Kingshighway, there's a lot to come in the next few years. Looking back over the past few, the area got a lot with 100, Citizen Park, Orion, Euclid, AC Hotel, Marlowe (4545 Laclede), West Village Townhomes, 4101 Laclede, and Artizen (4101 West Pine).
So between that, Optimist, 41Lindell, Bridge at Delmar and Euclid, and 490 Kingshighway, there's a lot to come in the next few years. Looking back over the past few, the area got a lot with 100, Citizen Park, Orion, Euclid, AC Hotel, Marlowe (4545 Laclede), West Village Townhomes, 4101 Laclede, and Artizen (4101 West Pine).
Very exciting. Curious to see/hear more about 490 Kingshighway - that's a great location for something significant.chriss752 wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2021The neighborhood will get denser with another project should be announced very soon. Stay tuned!
So between that, Optimist, 41Lindell, Bridge at Delmar and Euclid, and 490 Kingshighway, there's a lot to come in the next few years. Looking back over the past few, the area got a lot with 100, Citizen Park, Orion, Euclid, AC Hotel, Marlowe (4545 Laclede), West Village Townhomes, 4101 Laclede, and Artizen (4101 West Pine).
Also, the Cortex K apartments seem to be solidly in the CWE pipeline, even if the Cortex Duncan apartments aren't.