But that isn't an option. Maybe if the MetroLink let people off there, and not just across the parking lot.
I too think alot of these thing sound pretty gimmiky. A ferris wheel? City museums is better. Attractions like these attract one time and occasional visitors which are not going to support the station long term. The station needs a continual flux of people to support the retail there. I do like the ice rink proposal though.
I keep dreaming that we'll out grow the gateway transit center and they'll build something like this under I64 just south of the station. That way visitors via amtrak will be greeted by one of the cities oldest and most iconic structures.
No matter what though job and residential density will be the only thing that can support retail at union station in the long term. So the redevelopment of 22nd street is critical no matter what.
^ Heck, would be just happy to see the current metrolink station on the east side of Union Station moved under the shed. Open up the tunnel, and have the new metrolink station anchor the development of the train shed itself as well as new 22nd interchange. You can have select train tracks go over the new open under the shed metrolink station with bridges. At this point, wish I could actually create a rendering - open metrolink station with a railroad bridge or two over it (show a metrolink train at the station with a steam train above it) and light streaming through the shed roof.
Get a chance to drive by the Transbay center construction once and a while. Construction is going gang busters. What is going to be really impressive is that they broke ground on the new tower going next to it, it will be either the tallest or second tallest tower on the West Coast. What is even more impressive is the vision to not only run the caltrain/high speed tracks to transbay but extend under a new tunnel to the East Bay. As far as the Missouri state house yahoo's who think giving lawyers tax break is business development is in denial of the thousand jobs that Salesforce is going to put in that tower and the infrastructure beyond a highway that businesses need.
Back to Union Station, My impression is that LHM sees the parking under the shed as under utilization of space and therefore its a bottom line and understands the reality that it will be a long time for the immediate area to support retail let alone a mall setting. That is a very good thing IMO.
The Ferris Wheel idea, think it is cheesy also and much rather see a bigger one on Laclede's Landing with a water park if Drury is going to be serious about investing in the landing. As far as Station, It will be in fine if McKee get the 22nd interchange rebuilt, get the street grid back and an influx business development to happen for West Downtown. To me McKee's success is what LHM bet is about in the long run. It is close enough to Scottrade/Peabody and Busch Stadium to sustain but will do really well if McKee is successful.
Visited Union Station for Train Day and I have to say I like a lot of what they've done with the place. The train exhibits on the tracks were really fun (My understanding is they are temporary but they would be a great attraction if permanent). The projections in the Grand Hall are amazing.
I agree with the posters above that the separation of the metrolink from the union station is disappointing and confusing for a lot of people. While I was visiting the station, I saw several people from either a megabus or the hotel wandering around trying to find the metrolink or and several people in the parking lot from metrolink trying to find the hotel. There has got to be a better way here.
The plan for a ferris wheel, while unorigional, would certainly add a lot and fill in the gap in "activity" of the parking lot.
Also agree with above that the ONLY thing that will make the commercial aspect of union station viable in the long term is additional residential and commercial development in the area. When I visited London, large urban rail stations like St. Pancras even had full scale grocery stores, pharmacies, and electronics stores that the local residents would go to. The station doubled as a commercial and transportation center for the neighborhood that it is in.
I for one like the ferris wheel but i would prefer it somewhere along the riverfront.. As far as the station goes i think it be great if the station was not only the train station but an all around complete transit station for bi state metro link mega bus grey hound and am trak all in one together. A few mid rise residential buildings would help out a lot as well ... Denver has so many great things going for it St.Louis should really take heed what Denver is doing and we can accomplish a lot if not more even if we're not the state capitol ..
STLEnginerd wrote:
I too think alot of these thing sound pretty gimmiky. A ferris wheel? City museums is better. Attractions like these attract one time and occasional visitors which are not going to support the station long term. The station needs a continual flux of people to support the retail there. I do like the ice rink proposal though.
It all depends upon execution of course, but this could be a pretty awesome draw. I don't want to take away from the City Museum, but the experience of a climate-controlled, year-round 200' ferris wheel would be on an entirely different level.... it could also have a pretty cool LED lighting to spice up the night. They'd probably also have dinner and drinking excursions.
A 200' ferris wheel in Vienna, the historic Riesenrad, is one of the top tourist attractions in that world class city. And while it would only be a short sibling to the super talls that have opened in recent years across the globe (there is something akin to the "world's tallest skyscraper" and "world's tallest roller coaster" arms race going on, with the current title being held by the newly opened High Roller in Las Vegas at 550'), I think it could become a solid Saint Louis attraction that helps anchor a renewed vitality at Union Station. I agree with you that we need more residential and the 22nd Street district, but I think a 200' ferris wheel would be about the best attraction O'Loughlin could make for a relatively small $10 million investment.
Having said this, I think a better site from a visual perspective would be just west of the terminus of the Gateway Mall... the structure would be away from the 64/40 elevated infrastructure and the views would be even more spectacular -- the view from there down the Mall/Market towards the Arch is iconic, and the higher terrain there would add even more height to the eastern view. That would be a grand slam (but more difficult business case).
The Vienna wheel has as similar, albeit smaller, design to the original Chicago Exposition/St. Louis World's Fair Wheel. A replica would certainly be a crowd pleaser.
Is it just me or would a bit of landscaping in the front really brighten up that place...i dont know every time i drive by there it doesn't look inviting...break up some of that concrete with more trees and flowers, ect.
There are some slight differences between what was announced by LHM and from that forum thread and my Transitioning The Trainshed YASTLBlog post -- the location of the Ferris wheel, bumper cars instead of radio-controlled lagoon boats, but the spirit of the midway/boardwalk feel is definitely there.
This gives me renewed hope that even more of those suggestions/predictions will come true...live music/events, vintage trains, beer gardens, etc. And ESPECIALLY the outdoor skating rink!
Yes, after pretty convincingly being able to meld an ice rink into the Trainshed, I got lazy and MS Paint'd in some holiday "lights"...
Thanks, Bob (and LHM) for believing in a revived Union Station. Feel free to keep visiting UrbanSTL and use any or all of my other ideas...
And if you need someone to run Union Station's PR/Programming/Community Engagement...I'm the man for the job.
My mum and I went to the food court there for dinner last week, and I have to say it appears to have gone down hill quite a bit. My mum had been there over the previous summer during jury duty, and about half of the restaurants open then were closed now. Also, most of the employees were not even in company uniforms, which gave off a sort of unprofessional air.
Also, are all the Grand Hall improvements inside the hotel? Because all the entrances from the hotel to Union Station were blocked with signs saying that visitors were not welcome and that the entrances were for people staying at the hotel only.
Ebsy wrote:My mum and I went to the food court there for dinner last week, and I have to say it appears to have gone down hill quite a bit. My mum had been there over the previous summer during jury duty, and about half of the restaurants open then were closed now. Also, most of the employees were not even in company uniforms, which gave off a sort of unprofessional air.
Also, are all the Grand Hall improvements inside the hotel? Because all the entrances from the hotel to Union Station were blocked with signs saying that visitors were not welcome and that the entrances were for people staying at the hotel only.
You have to go around to the front entrance off of Market.
Ebsy wrote:My mum and I went to the food court there for dinner last week, and I have to say it appears to have gone down hill quite a bit. My mum had been there over the previous summer during jury duty, and about half of the restaurants open then were closed now. Also, most of the employees were not even in company uniforms, which gave off a sort of unprofessional air.
Also, are all the Grand Hall improvements inside the hotel? Because all the entrances from the hotel to Union Station were blocked with signs saying that visitors were not welcome and that the entrances were for people staying at the hotel only.
You have to go around to the front entrance off of Market.
Which, is a mistake IMO, although they may well have a sound reason for doing it that way. When my girlfriend and I went to check out the Grand Hall, we almost couldn't find it. Fortunately, a hotel employee saved us the trouble and let us in from inside Union Station.
I went to the mall there for the first time in years recently because I needed to find somewhere to take a piss. Boy, it is dead in there. If the MLS stadium were built next to it as was proposed, that would sure help the mall a lot. Maybe they should shoot for something besides retail. In Fenton, an old retail space was just converted into an entertainment destination. It has rock climbing walls and all that type of stuff. It's a family destination.
Ebsy wrote:My mum and I went to the food court there for dinner last week, and I have to say it appears to have gone down hill quite a bit. My mum had been there over the previous summer during jury duty, and about half of the restaurants open then were closed now. Also, most of the employees were not even in company uniforms, which gave off a sort of unprofessional air.
Also, are all the Grand Hall improvements inside the hotel? Because all the entrances from the hotel to Union Station were blocked with signs saying that visitors were not welcome and that the entrances were for people staying at the hotel only.
You have to go around to the front entrance off of Market.
Which, is a mistake IMO, although they may well have a sound reason for doing it that way. When my girlfriend and I went to check out the Grand Hall, we almost couldn't find it. Fortunately, a hotel employee saved us the trouble and let us in from inside Union Station.
Security. Now they're down to one entrance that is manned 24/7. I'm not saying it's the right reason but explains all the closures.
I thought I would mention here that just this week the Megabus dropoff and pickup has been moved from S 21st just west of Union Station to S 14th on the east side of the street between Spruce and Clark across the street from the Metro transfer station and the Gateway Multimodal Transportation Center. Not a huge deal but good nonetheless.
As someone who uses Megabus often, the 21st Street drop-off is horrendous. Megabus gets a firmly-worded tweet (for all the good that does) every time I arrive/depart. And for someone who isn't from here...well, I can't imagine how confused/concerned/disoriented they would be getting dumped out there!
Glad to see they've moved it, but northbound 14th at Spruce will have it's own fair-share of issues. Mainly, the mess of cars trying to park (illegally) in the drop-off zone, in front of the bus vestibules and in the Transit Center turnaround.
As someone who uses Megabus often, the 21st Street drop-off is horrendous. Megabus gets a firmly-worded tweet (for all the good that does) every time I arrive/depart. And for someone who isn't from here...well, I can't imagine how confused/concerned/disoriented they would be getting dumped out there!
This will be a much better spot. Like you said I can't imagine what it was like for someone not from here getting dumped at that old 21st Street location: especially after dark.
Kevin B wrote:Glad to see they've moved it, but northbound 14th at Spruce will have it's own fair-share of issues. Mainly, the mess of cars trying to park (illegally) in the drop-off zone, in front of the bus vestibules and in the Transit Center turnaround.
I expect a fair amount of drama parking-wise. I can forsee lots of illegal parking around the Sheraton, Transit Center, the dropoff area and even Scottrade Center. Like what will happen when there's a concert or Blues game that coincides with a bus arrival or departure? And it will get even worse when the Transit Center expansion construction starts. This is going to make 14th and Clark even more challenging.
Ferris wheels often come cheaper than other major landmarks—around $15 million to $20 million, compared to say, an iconic skyscraper or a shiny new arts center, which can cost in the hundreds of millions. (There are exceptions: The New York Wheel, scheduled to open on Staten Island next summer, will cost a whopping $230 million.) And developers generally expect to make their money back within the first two years. The $15 million Capital Wheel at National Harbor, just outside of Washington, D.C., boasted 25,000 visitors in its opening weekend....
Then there’s the (relatively) instant gratification factor. Ferris wheels take about a year to build from start to finish—a lot quicker than some other attractions—and take up less of a footprint (think parking lot-sized), which means they can be dropped in among other tourism draws, like an outlet mall, convention center, museums, or piers
