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Travel by Water

Travel by Water

712
Senior MemberSenior Member
712

PostSep 02, 2010#1

I recently put an overview of Hong Kong's Star Ferry on my blog and saw an article on the Goldenrod Showboat in the news today.

It seems like the active use of boats in the local imagination would have them moored in place and not going anywhere. If they move, then they're just tour boats. There's no option for actual travel, to the best of my knowledge, except maybe something limited like this,



There are many river cities around the world that make active use of boats as part of the pulic transit network. Hong Kong is a good example because their buses, trains, and boats all use the same payment system (a smart card system like what Metro will be getting). Bangkok is a great example because they have lots of owner-operated boats for hire picking up the slack where the big boats fail to go. In some cases, hiring a boat is way faster than taking a regular taxi or tuktuk because Bangkok's canal system is so extensive.

Most people in St. Louis recognize Alton as part of the St. Louis region, but few have actually been there. What if there was an express boat like the Goldenrod or the Admiral that ran back and forth from the arch to Alton? If there were a few boats and one came every hour or so, I'd happily spend a Saturday up there. I don't know how long it'd take to make the trip, but I'd be happy standing on an open deck admiring the scenery for an hour. Or if there are stops all along the way and I can board my bicycle, maybe I'd bike farther north than usual. Could people living in Alton commute to downtown by boat? Getting to work would be faster than getting back considering the current.

Other potential ferry destinations from the arch might be St. Charles, Chesterfield, Carondelet/Patch/Lemay, Kimmswick, Herculaneum, St. Gen (a bit far).

I don't know what kind of commute times would be possible or what the cost of operations would be like, but connecting far away historic mainstreets to downtown by riverboat would be a good thing for places like Kimmswick that bank on historic buildings, festivals, and walkability.

274
Full MemberFull Member
274

PostSep 02, 2010#2

I think that would be an awesome idea actually.

12
New MemberNew Member
12

PostSep 02, 2010#3

Me too. This is what St. Louis needs. A ferry transit system!! :D

5,720
Life MemberLife Member
5,720

PostSep 02, 2010#4

Personally, I think it would be a failure for a number of reasons. First, The employment density in downtown is still at a low mark so you have quite a few jobs away from the river/body of water versus other metro areas with succesfull ferry services such as San Fran, New York, Seattle, etc where their is a very heavy concentration of jobs near the waterfronts. Plus, those bodies of waters can make for a long commute to either avoid the water or limited in crossings. St Louis is not deprived of bridges. Second, their is no competing tolls. I had to move to San Fran area for work. I pay a toll to cross the San Rafael/Richmond bridge everday. No such competition. why pay a toll to use the ferry when you can cross the bridge for free? Third, Alton might be better served by rail which happens to be an Amtrak stop already and will get funds to upgrade its station in the near future as part of the HSR push. Plus Alton is on a rail corridor that stretches from Northeast to Southwest. Commuter rail will cover much more area and serve many more residents. Plus, commuter rail will have a very good connection to metrolink downtown, High speed rail to Chicago/KC, and a good connections via metrolink to Lambert/Scotts Air Force Base/and future Mid-America extension as well as any number of institutions. Simply put, can think of a lot reasons why ferry service is not a good fit for the region.

712
Senior MemberSenior Member
712

PostSep 03, 2010#5

Right, I had that commuter rail line in mind when I suggested Alton. I do not own a car, nor do I see a reason to. If I have to pay the same amount for a bus, train, or boat, then I'd choose the boat. If the train is faster, then maybe I'd take that. It'd depend on what I was setting out to do. If I wanted to bike around the confluence, the boat would be the best option.

I agree it'd be a commercial failure if a for-profit company tried it. That's why public transit is usually subsidized. Would it end up being a huge money pit for metro of whatever group operated it? Maybe not. It would have to be studied. Would it be good for tourism? Probably. Would tourism in turn help the tax base? Sure.

My main issue here is that I'd like to see what is right about Jefferson County trump what is wrong with it. The small river towns, with 150+ year-old street grids need to be better connected to each other and to the city. Metro's one bus stop south of the Meramec just dumps people in a parking lot next to the highway, not on a walkable historic main street.

Likewise, I've heard that St. Charles has a nice historic area that's actually quite nice, near the river. If downtown St. Charles had a boat connection to downtown St. Louis tourists would probably wash up in St. Charles more often. Investment would be made in the part of the county actually worth visiting.

None of these places are major employment centers (except downtown), but all of them have recreation and tourism potential. Transit that doesn't serve every day commuters isn't that useful, it depends on the size of our leisure crowd.

Singapore runs a number of ferries to small islands that contain no jobs at all. Service runs non-stop on the weekends, and only intermittantly if at all during the week. Perhaps a weekend-only service is possible in St. Louis.


Metro has two boats. How do you guys feel about the way Metro uses them? Would you like to see them stop somewhere besides downtown?

PostSep 03, 2010#6

Regarding the MetroLink connection, Eads Bridge has stations at both ends. A ferry that stopped at Laclede's Landing would provide a transfer to the MetroLink easily enough.

The Alton Amtrak station, like the Jeffco Bus, doesn't drop people off in an ideal location. If you stepped off a boat in 'downtown' Alton, it'd be a lot easier to walk around and spend money.

Obviously the Amtrak station should be the main multi-modal hub for downtown and for Alton, and if anyone here had to choose between a train and a boat for the region's next big project, we'd all choose commuter rail. However, one is certainly cheaper than the other though, and a boat could actually get me to the part of Alton I'd like to see. I don't see why we couldn't have both.

5,720
Life MemberLife Member
5,720

PostSep 03, 2010#7

Daron, I will have to do some digging. Ferry boats are declared passenger vessels just as thre President Casino did and thus fall under some very heavy regulation. Working with commerical work boats as a career, its not cheap to run these vessels just as any other mode of transit.

2,938
Life MemberLife Member
2,938

PostSep 03, 2010#8

However, before getting to Alton, the ferry boat would first come into contact with a lock & dam, and that can mess with traffic. Last night, I caught part of a show on National Geographic on a group disassembling, moving, and reassembling a steam boat into central IL, with the ship being pieced out along the Mississippi River banks in Alton. Taking the river up, they ran into the river's first lock & dam just before making it to Alton, and it almost couldn't fit into the lock. Watching that, it makes me wonder how feasible a StL-Alton ferry system could be if passengers have to put up with the time spent switching depths.

Still, if it can be done, then rock on. I bet the Alton Chamber and Fast Eddie's would be quick to throw their weight on anything that can bring day trippers into town.

237
Junior MemberJunior Member
237

PostSep 17, 2010#9

Lock? We don't need no stink in' lock...


597
Senior MemberSenior Member
597

PostSep 17, 2010#10

^funny I was thinking something more along these lines



cherubini classic 20 foot speedboat, wooden finish, seats five, tops out at 60MPH....cruising down the river wind in your face charlie parker in your ear.

I definitely agree with this post/blog we need more riverfront destinations, marinas,docks , waterways etc. I can't forget how cool it was in Michael Mann's miami vice when Colin Farrel and Li Gong ( :mrgreen: ) jetted over to cuba for mojitos and dancing. Just gotta get a boat and Li Gong.



from an old thread: East St. Louis Riverfront Plans
http://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14

237
Junior MemberJunior Member
237

PostSep 20, 2010#11

Nice, but good luck trying to get by the chain of rocks in that.