DT offers few retail or dining destinations I can't find anywhere else. Also, most of them are far too expensive. As far as entertainment goes, I've done most of it. I don't care about football, either. I'll check out C+A+R and the Blues Museum when they open and other museums like the STL Sports Hall of Fame. I would go to a Ripley's! and stuff like that sometimes. Rotating exhibits are important, though. Don't wanna see the same stuff twice. I guess I go down there sometimes with County or out of state friends for Lumiere, though.
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If you wouldn't mind, please explain why you and your circle of friends have no desire to spend and desire downtown? What do those areas have that downtown doesn't?
I am curious because I have an opposite kind of mindset. I love it downtown for a plethora of reasons and really would have a hard time live in the areas you mentioned over downtown.
I am curious because I have an opposite kind of mindset. I love it downtown for a plethora of reasons and really would have a hard time live in the areas you mentioned over downtown.
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I think it's because they aren't very different that makes DT unnecessary to travel to. DT main draw is sports.
Grassdowntown2007 wrote:If you wouldn't mind, please explain why you and your circle of friends have no desire to spend and desire downtown? What do those areas have that downtown doesn't?
I am curious because I have an opposite kind of mindset. I love it downtown for a plethora of reasons and really would have a hard time live in the areas you mentioned over downtown.
I have a 140 lbs dog, bought a house with the biggest yard I could find in SoHA. Neighborhood feel...
Wash Ave and BPV has too many west county "bros"
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I think downtown suffers from a severe perception problem. Many don't understand the social, economic, and time efficient benefits people have by living downtown.
It may not offer a restaurant that they can't find somewhere else (which I think is debatable) but they can find a solid mixture of establishments that are condensed and within walking distance anywhere else? Can one visit the city museum, have eat at a Japanese restaurant, and visit a microbrew on the same block? Can one go to happy hour at a sports bar after work, have a margarita across the street, and then a martini at a swank lounge in the next storefront. Can one workout at the gym and stop by the grocery store on the way home. And this is all without getting into the car. It's an experience that one cannot find anywhere else in St Louis except maybe the CWE.
In addition if one lives downtown they are instantly neighbors with 200 other people that live in the same building. 200 other people that work in many different industries and have different backgrounds. Major social and networking benefits.
I don't condone anyone for not living or spending time downtown. But I do think they have a misunderstanding about what downtown is and all it has to offer. It's even more discouraging to hear it from people that live in the city that I would view as more tolerable and adventurous. I had the same misunderstandings before moving down here and fortunately have changed them and realized tangible benefits from it.
It may not offer a restaurant that they can't find somewhere else (which I think is debatable) but they can find a solid mixture of establishments that are condensed and within walking distance anywhere else? Can one visit the city museum, have eat at a Japanese restaurant, and visit a microbrew on the same block? Can one go to happy hour at a sports bar after work, have a margarita across the street, and then a martini at a swank lounge in the next storefront. Can one workout at the gym and stop by the grocery store on the way home. And this is all without getting into the car. It's an experience that one cannot find anywhere else in St Louis except maybe the CWE.
In addition if one lives downtown they are instantly neighbors with 200 other people that live in the same building. 200 other people that work in many different industries and have different backgrounds. Major social and networking benefits.
I don't condone anyone for not living or spending time downtown. But I do think they have a misunderstanding about what downtown is and all it has to offer. It's even more discouraging to hear it from people that live in the city that I would view as more tolerable and adventurous. I had the same misunderstandings before moving down here and fortunately have changed them and realized tangible benefits from it.
Last Thursday I walked to Hampton village for a dentist appointment, got new glasses at my eye doctor, got a haircut, ate Chinese, went to the gym, got few groceries and walked home, went to the bar for day drinking at the Mack while I left my back door open and the dog was playing in the backyarddowntown2007 wrote:
It may not offer a restaurant that they can't find somewhere else (which I think is debatable) but they can find a solid mixture of establishments that are condensed and within walking distance anywhere else? Can one visit the city museum, have eat at a Japanese restaurant, and visit a microbrew on the same block? Can one go to happy hour at a sports bar after work, have a margarita across the street, and then a martini at a swank lounge in the next storefront. Can one workout at the gym and stop by the grocery store on the way home. And this is all without getting into the car. It's an experience that one cannot find anywhere else in St Louis except maybe the CWE.
( other things I could have gotten at Hampton village; meds at walgreens, things at target, clothes at JC Penney, sub at firehouse, clothes at other stores there, mcdonalds, Bank of America, commerce bank, Lindell bank ect)
TGS, s grand has all kinds of food options, drinking options, shopping, tower grove park, banking, hair salons, kinkos/fedex, work places ect and the neighborhood feel
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Downtown doesn't have a neighborhood vibe? I see people I know walking down the street, see kids playing in the park, see people chatting while walking dogs, see neighbors at dinner or having drinks at a bar. A cluster of turn of the century warehouses can feel like a neighborhood as well. The neighborly thing isn't exclusive to a block of single family homes.
Bunch of kids swimming at the City Garden water fountain isn't really kids playing in the park...does downtown have a playground?downtown2007 wrote:Downtown doesn't have a neighborhood vibe? I see people I know walking down the street, see kids playing in the park, see people chatting while walking dogs, see neighbors at dinner or having drinks at a bar. A cluster of turn of the century warehouses can feel like a neighborhood as well. The neighborly thing isn't exclusive to a block of single family homes.
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That's the perception and lack of knowledge I am talking about.Knowitall wrote:Bunch of kids swimming at the City Garden water fountain isn't really kids playing in the park...does downtown have a playground?downtown2007 wrote:Downtown doesn't have a neighborhood vibe? I see people I know walking down the street, see kids playing in the park, see people chatting while walking dogs, see neighbors at dinner or having drinks at a bar. A cluster of turn of the century warehouses can feel like a neighborhood as well. The neighborly thing isn't exclusive to a block of single family homes.
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yeah right where someone was stabbed to death yesterday.Gateway City wrote:Yes, by the SHELL building.
10 year resident. No downtown does not have a nieborhood vibe. An ok place to live yes.
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Were those two guys homeless dudes hanging out there because of the Salvation Army building?
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The park is utilized plenty by toddlers and dog walkers.
Oh yeah, It wasn't there before 2012, that's the one where a dt resident applied for a grant for a playground. Never seen a single kid there when I worked dt in 2012 and first 3 months of 2013. Did see a lot of homeless hanging around but that was during the day. Probably not the same scene after 5Gateway City wrote:Yes, by the SHELL building.
I love downtown. If I was single, I'd probably live downtown. A Walgreens would benefit it. A Target (or something similar) would be fantastic. It would easily be the most vibrant, walkable neighborhood in the city with those two things, in my opinion.
That said, it's not yet a vibrant "downtown." It's a fine neighborhood, but downtown should be more, and there's a ways to go for it to get there. I'm optimistic it will happen eventually, but I don't see a lot of things happening soon unfortunately. Slow and steady it is. Hopefully some major company is willing to take the leap at some point and start a trend. When jobs come in mass, then it will be where it needs to be.
That said, it's not yet a vibrant "downtown." It's a fine neighborhood, but downtown should be more, and there's a ways to go for it to get there. I'm optimistic it will happen eventually, but I don't see a lot of things happening soon unfortunately. Slow and steady it is. Hopefully some major company is willing to take the leap at some point and start a trend. When jobs come in mass, then it will be where it needs to be.
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It wasn't opened. It was being renovated. Looks fantastic now.Knowitall wrote:Oh yeah, It wasn't there before 2012, that's the one where a dt resident applied for a grant for a playground. Never seen a single kid there when I worked dt in 2012 and first 3 months of 2013. Did see a lot of homeless hanging around but that was during the day. Probably not the same scene after 5Gateway City wrote:Yes, by the SHELL building.
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+1 upvote agreejstriebel wrote: A Walgreens would benefit it. A Target (or something similar) would be fantastic. It would easily be the most vibrant, walkable neighborhood in the city with those two things, in my opinion.
That said, it's not yet a vibrant "downtown." It's a fine neighborhood, but downtown should be more, and there's a ways to go for it to get there. I'm optimistic it will happen eventually, but I don't see a lot of things happening soon unfortunately. Slow and steady it is. Hopefully some major company is willing to take the leap at some point and start a trend. When jobs come in mass, then it will be where it needs to be.
jobs jobs jobs. And i just dont see them coming to downtown anytime soon.
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Take Mayor Slay up to the top of the ATT One Center Building and grab onto his ankles holding him upside down until he gets a major company to commit jobs to downtown?tech840 wrote:I guess I understand the pessimism but I am wondering what people on this board are doing to try to change the dynamics besides providing negatives energy? Did you support RallySTL initiatives? Are you supporting Arch Grants? Do you attend downtown events other than sporting events. Any other ideas how we should be doing more?
Who cares if it doesn't have swings? It is one of the great joymakers for children in the entire state. Also, why don't you suggest to your friends you all go out to downtown for a change of pace? There has to be someplace you've been meaning to go to for dinner/drinks but haven't made it yet.Knowitall wrote:Bunch of kids swimming at the City Garden water fountain isn't really kids playing in the park...does downtown have a playground?downtown2007 wrote:Downtown doesn't have a neighborhood vibe? I see people I know walking down the street, see kids playing in the park, see people chatting while walking dogs, see neighbors at dinner or having drinks at a bar. A cluster of turn of the century warehouses can feel like a neighborhood as well. The neighborly thing isn't exclusive to a block of single family homes.
One thing I am really looking forward to downtown btw is the new entrance to the Arch and expanded Museum.... I think it is the best thing about the project and if the execution is anywhere near the renderings, it will be an amazing spot. As a whole, I would have loved to have seen a Grand Boulevard, but overall it will still be a big step up from what we have presently.
In a little over a year, we'll have the Blues Museum and most of the Arch project completed as well as work well underway on the Arcade-Wright and Chemical Buildings and possibly phase II of the Union Station project and who knows what else. Certainly from an entertainment/tourism/residential perspective, downtown is becoming more vibrant; its just the poor performance on the key jobs role a CBD is supposed to have that is a bummer.
In a little over a year, we'll have the Blues Museum and most of the Arch project completed as well as work well underway on the Arcade-Wright and Chemical Buildings and possibly phase II of the Union Station project and who knows what else. Certainly from an entertainment/tourism/residential perspective, downtown is becoming more vibrant; its just the poor performance on the key jobs role a CBD is supposed to have that is a bummer.
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Kids have the City Museum and City Garden. Much better than Chuck E. Cheese or any regular park.
I want to move DT this or next year but I specifically want to move into the Arcade. Can't until it's done though. Also, I don't think DT will necessarily "achieve liftoff" for a few more years. After the currently proposed projects are done - rehabs, C+A+R+, some new construction, streetcar maybe, lots of new openings, more entertainment, etc. then DT will be a great neighborhood and destination. However, it does need more office jobs for sure. It will probably be 2020 before DT is always vibrant and has limited blight.
I want to move DT this or next year but I specifically want to move into the Arcade. Can't until it's done though. Also, I don't think DT will necessarily "achieve liftoff" for a few more years. After the currently proposed projects are done - rehabs, C+A+R+, some new construction, streetcar maybe, lots of new openings, more entertainment, etc. then DT will be a great neighborhood and destination. However, it does need more office jobs for sure. It will probably be 2020 before DT is always vibrant and has limited blight.
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Downtown needs to grown its job numbers but I don't see that happing for at least 5 years at least when the start ups start to grow up more. Downtown St Louis in not the only downtown losing jobs KC lost 16,000 jobs and experts think KC job loss would be about 20,000 buy the end of the decade. The Chicago loops lost about 30,000 jobs in the last 10 years. ( Chicago loss may had stopped) I think worst of all downtown Houston is about have 10,000 less employees due to Exxon Mobile moving there HQ to the exurban woodlands. ( Exxon CEO believes that downtown living is a fad and downtown residents would flock to the exurbs to have kids and to look for better jobs but I think he just wants to sell more gas for cars.) Also and Downtown LA and San Francisco are also losing jobs not sure the numbers. A lot of experts believe the downtown of tomorrow would look more like neighborhoods and less like business districts.
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It relieves me to see others failing just like us. Should I feel bad about that? Aw whatever, I don't care. If my cousin, me, and a multitude of my friends of various ages are all interested in moving DT despite none of us working there (some of them work way out in West County), then it will still become big and successful in time. We need to finish rehabbing our vacant buildings. Retail/dining/entertainment jobs will put a band-aid on our lack of office jobs.
Despite all this, a company bringing even just 500 jobs DT would be awesome. In the meantime, however, we should count more on colleges like SLU Law, Webster, and Lafayette Dental School to bring people DT in the daytime.
Despite all this, a company bringing even just 500 jobs DT would be awesome. In the meantime, however, we should count more on colleges like SLU Law, Webster, and Lafayette Dental School to bring people DT in the daytime.
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^^ sean,
do you have sources for those numbers? I'm familiar with the job sprawl report from Brookings for the prior decade, but am looking for some solid info for recent years/post Great Recession. The recession hit everyone hard but I think we've been lagging others since.
My sense is that while we've had a few companies that already have had a downtown presence grow more jobs -- either from new hires like Stifel or consolidation like Anders moving employees from a Brentwood acquisition and Polsinelli moving staff from the Clayton office (both less than a 100 employees) we've done very, very poorly with establishing new operations. I really can't think of more than the two "success stories" of 100+ employees since 2010 of the Unisys IT center at 555 Washington and Hudson Bay IT center at 500 N. Broadway.... those were announced to bring a total of 300 and 130 jobs, respectively, over a few years. I know they are both hiring so hopefully they reach their targets, but less than 500 downtown jobs is pretty woeful.
Surely I'm missing other notable newbies?
do you have sources for those numbers? I'm familiar with the job sprawl report from Brookings for the prior decade, but am looking for some solid info for recent years/post Great Recession. The recession hit everyone hard but I think we've been lagging others since.
My sense is that while we've had a few companies that already have had a downtown presence grow more jobs -- either from new hires like Stifel or consolidation like Anders moving employees from a Brentwood acquisition and Polsinelli moving staff from the Clayton office (both less than a 100 employees) we've done very, very poorly with establishing new operations. I really can't think of more than the two "success stories" of 100+ employees since 2010 of the Unisys IT center at 555 Washington and Hudson Bay IT center at 500 N. Broadway.... those were announced to bring a total of 300 and 130 jobs, respectively, over a few years. I know they are both hiring so hopefully they reach their targets, but less than 500 downtown jobs is pretty woeful.
Surely I'm missing other notable newbies?
And he'd still be screaming like Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House "All is well! All is well!"roger wyoming II wrote:Take Mayor Slay up to the top of the ATT One Center Building and grab onto his ankles holding him upside down until he gets a major company to commit jobs to downtown?tech840 wrote:I guess I understand the pessimism but I am wondering what people on this board are doing to try to change the dynamics besides providing negatives energy? Did you support RallySTL initiatives? Are you supporting Arch Grants? Do you attend downtown events other than sporting events. Any other ideas how we should be doing more?