In our research about StL, my husband and I have been haunting the internet real estate pages. After Living here in South Florida with so much greenery, one of my requirement was that we live across the street from a park, or some other green space.

So...we came across this real estate listing for a house in the Riverside area that overlooks the river. It flunks my other requirement of being within walking distance of restaurants and shopping, but the view appears to be incredible!

It does seem that Riverside is quite different from the rest of the city. It also seems cut off from much of the revitalization that's going on in ST.L.

Can anyone tell me more about Riverside? I'm also interested in the current opinions about the north side of the city. Are there any plans in the works or is it going to be years before it's reclaimed?

Are you referring to the "Riverview" neighborhood on the north side (#75 on the map below)?







If so, I can tell you that I've ridden the North Riverfront bike trail through the neighborhood along the Mississippi River. It does have some incredible views. If you could find a home overlooking the river in this neighborhood, I doubt you'd encounter much trouble crime-wise. It's fairly stable, to my knowledge. Every time I've been up that far north, it actually seems quaint and peaceful.



If you're worried about race issues (i.e., if you're white and are worried about moving into a nearly all-black neighborhood, or vice versa), the Riverview neighborhood is somewhat sparsely populated for its size, with all residential units to the west of Riverview Boulevard. It had a 2000 population of 237 (125 whites, 102 blacks, 9 Asians). Sorry if it offends anyone that I brought up race. Some people really do consider that before a move.



I can't comment much on the rest of the north side, as I do not visit any portion of it with much regularity (which, I admit, is a total shame--some excellent architecture exists there that rivals any other part of the city in its uniqueness and quality). As far as north side developments--there are plenty. In fact, some of the largest increases in housing permits in the city are on the north side. For further information, I'd direct you to the two north side boards we have on the forum--one for Residential Developments and the other for Projects/Construction.

Yep, I did mean Riverview.

As far as race goes, we live in a very diverse neighborhood here, and have had no problems. Here in South Florida, if you're a WASP, you're in a minority. one of the things I find interesting about the perception of race: everyone thinks only of Cubans when they think of latins or hispanics in So Fla. In reality Cubans are a minority within that segment of the population. The black community is segmented as well, with people from the various Caribbean nations making up a significant percentage. Consequently, the issues here are different that they are in the rest of the South or even the North. No one here can really claim to be part of some monolithic group, who all share the same background.

Frankly, if you can be nice to me, I can be nice to you. I may choose not to hang with you, but that won't have anything to do with your skin tone. I probably just don't like you!

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on a tangent.

I know that the north side of St. L. was traditionally African American, and has been decimated. My concern is more like how far I would have to drive from a house in Riverview to a grocery store? Or a gas station?

Here is a map and the list of the closest "department stores" to the 63137 ZIP (which actually primarily includes suburban north St. Louis County, but also the Riverview neighborhood of North City)...



Map



Department Stores



Schnucks

(314) 741-0282

1589 Sierra Vista Plz

St Louis, MO

1.43

miles



Dillard's Department Store

(314) 355-8600

400 Jamestown Mall

Florissant, MO

4.54

miles



Glik's Department Store

(314) 355-7002

123 Jamestown Mall

Florissant, MO

4.66

miles



Family Dollar Store

(314) 867-7702

10035 Bellefontaine Rd

St Louis, MO

0.19

miles



Schnucks

(314) 383-3727

8319 Jennings Station Rd

St Louis, MO

3.17

miles



Schnucks

(314) 869-6700

10148 W Florissant Ave

St Louis, MO

3.67

miles



Wal-Mart

(314) 521-3422

10741 W Florissant Ave

St Louis, MO

3.85

miles



Tj Maxx

(314) 831-2842

11228 W Florissant Ave

Florissant, MO

3.92

miles



Kmart

(314) 921-8011

2855 Dunn Rd

Florissant, MO

3.85

miles



* Gfs Limited

(314) 653-2181

St Louis, MO

2.42

miles



---

Most of these, being in North County, would require a car or a dangerous bike ride (at least to my knowledge--I'll be honest, I'm not well traveled in those parts).

Also check out Mount Pleasant neighborhood. Parts of this South City neighborhood east of I-55 overlook the Mississippi River on its high bluffs.



And Mount Pleasant is amongst the many diverse, dense and active neighborhoods of South City, unlike the more quiet and secluded Riverview. Mount Pleasant also has better highway (I-55) and transit (Broadway bus) access to downtown and other employment than Riverview. But like Riverview, Mount Pleasant only has a limited number of homes actually with river views.

Thanks Matt! Riverview isn't quite as isolated as I imagined from looking at my map. While in STL, we bought a Wunnenberg's Street Guide for the city, county and metro west. It can only tell you so much.



Thanks for the tip on Mount Pleasant, Southslider. We just checked out real estate in that area after reading your post. Unfortunately there's nothing currently available overlooking the river, but we'll keep watching.



We really haven't settled on a particular neighborhood yet. We're still just exploring and learning about the city, so any information is greatly appreciated.

southslider wrote:Also check out Mount Pleasant neighborhood. Parts of this South City neighborhood east of I-55 overlook the Mississippi River on its high bluffs.



And Mount Pleasant is amongst the many diverse, dense and active neighborhoods of South City, unlike the more quiet and secluded Riverview. Mount Pleasant also has better highway (I-55) and transit (Broadway bus) access to downtown and other employment than Riverview. But like Riverview, Mount Pleasant only has a limited number of homes actually with river views.

It's good that you pointed this neighborhood out. Bellerive Park has a great view of the river also, but you really can't live in a park, I suppose. Still, if you lived near it, you'd have free access to river views whenever you wanted.

Miles, I guess it takes an out of towner to find an off the beaten track neighborhood like Riverview. Despite being one of the great river cities, St. Louis doesn't have many riverside neighborhoods. There is an opportunity in that for the future. Thanks to you, I checked real estate listings in Riverview and found one house in particular that is a real knockout with a view. I will bet you have already found it. Don't worry, I won't buy it out from under you, we are not in a position to move right now . In the meantime, I think most people in St. Louis City think of city parks (not river views) when they think of being near green. Houses that are near city parks seemed to be valued. I mean parks like Forest Park, Lafayette Park, Benton Park, Tower Grove Park, and many others, including Bellerive Park that does double duty, it is a city park, but also has a riverview. Houses with views of parks or near the city parks are popular. Often the houses facing the parks are a little fancier, too. In my opinion, "location, location, location" in St. Louis means being near a city park, near good transit, and walking distance to shops/restaurants. Maybe someday, St. Louis will also discover its riverfront neighborhoods.



Have you checked out Clifton Heights? It is an intown neighborhoods with beautiful old houses surrounding a small lake. It has a more bucolic setting than the typical St. Louis City neighborhood - not on the normal urban grid.



Have you discovered http://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods

It is an excellent tool for us out of towners trying to glean information about neigborhoods.

That's o.k....Chances are that house will be gone by the time we're ready to go as well. It's such a great view, and the house seems pretty nice for the price.

It's actually been on the market for about 3 months now. I'm surprised it's been up that long. Does the market there move that slowly?

I agree that homes adjacent to parks seem to fare better. Hey, people like trees. I know that if we move there from Florida, I'm definitely going to need some green visuals.

I checked out Clifton Heights. The homes on the park that are for sale are beautiful, but way out of our price range. but Thanks For the tip! It was worth learning about that little area!

Jeff wrote:Wasn't a condo development with river views proposed for South City recently?

I think you are referring to:



Good Samaritan Home - 5200 South Broadway

http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=556

That sounds great!

Some of the homes on Riverview do have wonderful river views

and proximity to the bike trail and Chain of Rocks bridge

(a real St Louis treasure); however, take into consideration

the heavy truck traffic (Riverview is used heavily by the

trucking firms on Hall St to access I-270) and motorists

regularly driving 10-15 mph over the posted 40mph speed

limit. I ride through this area weekly. Good luck!

danstlou wrote:motorists

regularly driving 10-15 mph over the posted 40mph speed

limit. Good luck!

Very true.

Trust me. Traffic there is nothing like driving here in So. Fla.! When we visited back in June my husband couldn't get over the fact that y'all use TURN SIGNALS! Our current house backs up to a busy highway. I left for fifteen minutes one day, and when I got home there was a car in our back yard! But heck, our fence needed replacing anyway, so at least we didn't have to pay for it.

I do appreciate the information, though. It sound like something we may not immediately notice when we visit the area.

miles9797 wrote:Trust me. Traffic there is nothing like driving here in So. Fla.! When we visited back in June my husband couldn't get over the fact that y'all use TURN SIGNALS! Our current house backs up to a busy highway. I left for fifteen minutes one day, and when I got home there was a car in our back yard! But heck, our fence needed replacing anyway, so at least we didn't have to pay for it.

I do appreciate the information, though. It sound like something we may not immediately notice when we visit the area.

Well, St. Louis isn't exactly known for its drivers' use of turn signals. Quite the opposite actually.



But I use them 99% of the time. So that makes one.

Driving in St. Louis is such a pleasure after living in DC. People are unbelievably considerate. For people that are in STL everyday it may not be apparent, but it really is nice trafficwise. The fact that traffic speeds down Riverview Blvd is a plus to me. The problem in DC/Balto is gridlock. There is so much traffic, it is always jammed. It takes hours to get anywhere. I would love a fast moving highway! I think most of the houses in Riverview are up and away from the highway anyway. I didn't think of it before, but with the riverfront bicycle trails and the new emphasis on linking riverfront parks, etc., (what is this initiative called?) Riverview is in a desirable spot because of its views and access to the beautiful Chain of Rocks area. It really is a jewel in the scheme of things.

I hate to be mean and really support anyone who wants to move to St. Louis, however from what you said in your inital post, Riverview is not the area for you. It does offer great river views from some nice homes up on the bluffs. The parks in the area are nice as well. However, as that area has changed over the past decade, it has not been positive. The nearby baden area can be pretty rough and would provide the closest shopping in walking distance. Farther away near the border between bellfountaine neighbors and Spanish lake, the shopping center with a Schnuks is fairly nice, though a bit of a walk from where you would be living. The area is not designed well for people looking to walk and bike and the areas closest to you are somewhat unsafe. Truth be told, there is some revliatization comming to that area, on the northland site and the old ammunition plant site, however those are farther away from where you would be living.

I know i am gonna take a ton of heat for saying this, but i would look elsewhere.

I don't think people are going to give you heat, JMedwick. It's your opinion.



Personally, I was raised on the South Side and find myself more comfortable with it, both because of familiarity and because of race issues. Ideally, I want to live in a diverse area--not one that is 99% WASP or 99% urban poor. So, the central corridor is always appealing. It tends to have an upper income bent with strong pockets of affordability. There seems to be some social cohesion despite clear-cut class differences in the central corridor. So the North Side really isn't on my list of considerations for housing at this point (though I have strong faith in the Old North St. Louis neighborhood).



Baden is, statistically speaking, pretty rough. However, it has some great architecture and history in its corner, and the stretch of Broadway that runs through Baden could be prime real estate at some point. It seems to be a fairly active, even if significantly empty commercial area to this day. It's certainly got the urban look and feel of other City commercial districts.



So the Riverview neighborhood would not be high on my list of recommendations for city neighborhoods--even if your goal is quaint city living. It's too much blended into the more rural parts of North County to the immediate north of the city (near the confluence).



I'd recommend, as someone has already suggested, one of St. Louis's many scenic parkside neighborhoods, such as Clifton Heights, which is very pastoral for the City. Other more urban park-hugging neighborhoods that I'd choose over Riverview: Wydown-Skinker (for high-rises), Skinker-DeBaliviere and DeBaliviere Place (for mansions), Central West End (for high-rises or mansions), Shaw (next to the Missouri Botanical Garden and just north of Tower Grove Park, for large but varied homes), Tower Grove South (for historic and handsome single-family homes), Southwest Garden (for an interesting mix of modern, art-deco homes and TGS-like historic red brick houses), Benton Park and Lafayette Square (Second Empire town houses lushly painted, bordering beautiful parks, especially Lafayette Park), Carondelet, Holly Hills (large homes and mansions with high tree canopy), and St. Louis Hills (Francis Park--beautiful Tudor homes across the street from the park's west side).



All of the above neighborhoods that border City parks are stable or even prosperous. Plus, being right across the street from the park, you're bound to get a more pastoral vision of the City than you would if you were in the middle of the grid.



But, if you must absolutely have a view over a body of water, try Clifton Heights. It's the best alternative thrown out there so far.

Thanks, JMedwick. I actually do appreciate hearing everyone's opinion. Not having actually had the opportunity to get a good look for ourselves, yet, we're grateful for every scrap of information we can get.

Buying into the Riverview area is definitely trading convenience to shopping/dining/employment for the views. Our information regarding the neighborhoods is based on what's available at the STL CIN website. The fact that no one has any interest in updating & maintaining their neighborhoods page (like the one for Baden - no updates since 1999 - and it's described as "stable" then) raises a red flag.

According to my trusty map though, the area of Riverview that we're looking at is closer to Bellefontaine Neighbors than Baden, or is that just an illusion?

We're so pumped about this move at this point, we're trying to find time to come back before the end of the year, instead of waiting. Curiosity is getting the better of us!

In researching STL, and carefully reading the posts about the North side, we are aware that the recovery for anything on the North side is going to take years. The sheer scale of the area in need of attention can tell you that. Hmmm, maybe a "Queer Eye for the Straight City" episode......

The Riverview area does have excellent access for recreation trails. There is the Old Chain of Rocks bridge that connects to the trail system in Madison Co, Illinois as well as the north riverfront trail which connects the Old Chain of Rocks bridge to the Laclede's Landing Area. I imagine the houses have some great views, especially when the bald eagles come down in the winter.



I read that MoDOT is raising the speed limit to 45 effective Oct 3 so now people will be only going 10 over.

Miles, maybe Riverview is waiting for your touch.

Afterall, it is known universally that it is our job to discover and turn around neighborhoods .



To be honest, I am not that familiar with Northside nabes and don't have my ear to the ground, so I am really glad people like JMedwick and others have given frank opinions.

Miles9797,

My grandparents lived off of Bellfountain Rd. near east of Chambers, so that is how i am familier with the area. It is sad to see the way Baden has gone down. I can remember shopping for a new bike with my grandmother in the area, and her frequent trips to the pharmacy in the area. When my parents were cleaning out their house shortly after my grandmothers death, they did some shopping in a grocery store in downtown Baden and felt the area to be unsafe. The Bellfountian neighbors area is a bit nicer and has been fortunate that much of the bad activity that moved into baden over the past decade has not migrated as much. The corner shopping center at bellfountian and Chamber, the Riveriew Dairy is the name, is nice and has a really nice meat selection (nicer than the nearby schnucks) and one of the widest selections of Vess soda i have found anywhere. I have fond memories of the area and wish it nothing but the best. However, i have concerns over a falling population as the area has many aging residents and low property values, leading to the downard trend for the area.