Unsure if you are arguing against my point. It's not clear. However, the American population shift to the south and west is an indisputable fact. Southern and western states continue to see a higher rate of population growth. weather, man. weather.RuskiSTL wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018NYC, Phila, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Denver...warm weather is nice but let's be real.soulardx wrote: ↑Apr 18, 2018Alternatively, the biggest St. Louis villain is the weather. I truly believe that majority of the region's slow growth issues are weather related. Americans do not like the cold. The fact that the south and the west continue to see the largest population gains proves it without a doubt.
I'll grant you that weather is a significant part of it, but I think the real reasoning is a bit deeper. Tocqueville gave us this gem,soulardx wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018Unsure if you are arguing against my point. It's not clear. However, the American population shift to the south and west is an indisputable fact. Southern and western states continue to see a higher rate of population growth. weather, man. weather.RuskiSTL wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018NYC, Phila, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Denver...warm weather is nice but let's be real.soulardx wrote: ↑Apr 18, 2018Alternatively, the biggest St. Louis villain is the weather. I truly believe that majority of the region's slow growth issues are weather related. Americans do not like the cold. The fact that the south and the west continue to see the largest population gains proves it without a doubt.
"I think that in no country in the civilized world is less attention paid to philosophy than in the United States. The Americans have no philosophical school of their own; ... Nevertheless it is easy to perceive that almost all the inhabitants of the United States conduct their understanding in the same manner, and govern it by the same rules; ... To evade the bondage of system and habit, of family maxims, class opinions, and, in some degree, of national prejudices; to accept tradition only as a means of information, and existing facts only as a lesson used in doing otherwise, and doing better; to seek the reason of things for one’s self, and in one’s self alone; to tend to results without being bound to means, and to aim at the substance through the form; – such are the principal characteristics of what I shall call the philosophical method of the Americans."
There's a reason for the population shift toward the South and the West, the reason is that as a country we don't value history, we don't like upkeep, we don't respect patience. America is a country of sprinters rather than marathon runners. Building something new in an undeveloped land is easier, cleaner, faster than maintaining something already built. The politics that come with history make life hard, we like easy. It's the same reason St. Charles and the exurbs exist. Fundamentally Americans don't handle nuance very well.
Getting back to the original post here are some more villains I found from a 2009 article:
The city of St. Louis isn’t known for making smart business deals with out-of-towners. Those of us ancient enough to date back professionally to the 1980s and ’90s are acutely aware of this.
In that era: A fellow from New York named Harold Glasser convinced the city government that handing $300,000 to his Miss Universe Pageant would put us on the world map. It didn’t.
A fellow from Pittsburgh named John Connelly bought and sold us our treasured Admiral riverboat at least twice. That didn’t work out so well, either.
A fellow from Beverly Hills named Harry Ornest bought and sold us back our beloved Arena and the Blues hockey franchise, netting something like a $20 million profit in a handful of years. At least the team is still here.
A fellow from New Jersey named Ralph Ingersoll Jr. convinced the civic elite and some big advertisers that his dynamic new daily St. Louis Sun would make us a rocking two-newspaper town again. It lasted just a matter of months. Now we’re barely a one-newspaper town.
Indeed, St. Louis’ most colorful corporate-desertion story involves Linebarger’s own hometown of San Antonio. In 1992, Southwestern Bell CEO Ed Whitacre uprooted the company headquarters from its long-standing St. Louis home and moved it to San Antonio.
This was a devastating blow to St. Louis—the forerunner of many it would suffer—but what made it legendary was the widely held belief that a significant factor in the decision to move was Whitacre having been snubbed for St. Louis Country Club membership.
The city of St. Louis isn’t known for making smart business deals with out-of-towners. Those of us ancient enough to date back professionally to the 1980s and ’90s are acutely aware of this.
In that era: A fellow from New York named Harold Glasser convinced the city government that handing $300,000 to his Miss Universe Pageant would put us on the world map. It didn’t.
A fellow from Pittsburgh named John Connelly bought and sold us our treasured Admiral riverboat at least twice. That didn’t work out so well, either.
A fellow from Beverly Hills named Harry Ornest bought and sold us back our beloved Arena and the Blues hockey franchise, netting something like a $20 million profit in a handful of years. At least the team is still here.
A fellow from New Jersey named Ralph Ingersoll Jr. convinced the civic elite and some big advertisers that his dynamic new daily St. Louis Sun would make us a rocking two-newspaper town again. It lasted just a matter of months. Now we’re barely a one-newspaper town.
Indeed, St. Louis’ most colorful corporate-desertion story involves Linebarger’s own hometown of San Antonio. In 1992, Southwestern Bell CEO Ed Whitacre uprooted the company headquarters from its long-standing St. Louis home and moved it to San Antonio.
This was a devastating blow to St. Louis—the forerunner of many it would suffer—but what made it legendary was the widely held belief that a significant factor in the decision to move was Whitacre having been snubbed for St. Louis Country Club membership.
The “greater outcome” was Cross County. The guy who oversaw the only significant expansion of Metrolink on the Missouri side since its inception? On the spectrum I’d put him closer to hero than villain.bprop wrote:He may be on a different plane than some already mentioned, but Larry Salci. He caused particularly major distrust of Metro. The lawsuit he brought on the Cross County Collaborative ushered in the era of bus stop signs with bags placed over them because the organization ran out of money. If this was for some greater outcome, it might be forgivable, but he wasn't even good at what he was supposedly there to do.
Oddly enough, the son of local villain Bill Bidwill is turning out to be something of a minor hero. Michael Bidwill has been financing the local high school football dinner. He actually got a standing ovation last November while receiving the Musial Award.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... a4102.html
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... a4102.html
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In much the same way as a teenager gets handed the keys to a car that's already running, and then "oversees" it as he crashes it into a tree.wabash wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018The “greater outcome” was Cross County. The guy who oversaw the only significant expansion of Metrolink on the Missouri side since its inception? On the spectrum I’d put him closer to hero than villain.bprop wrote:He may be on a different plane than some already mentioned, but Larry Salci. He caused particularly major distrust of Metro. The lawsuit he brought on the Cross County Collaborative ushered in the era of bus stop signs with bags placed over them because the organization ran out of money. If this was for some greater outcome, it might be forgivable, but he wasn't even good at what he was supposedly there to do.
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^ STL seems to have a problem with ineptitude in addition to villainy. Maybe Salci falls closer to the inept end of the spectrum--Cross County has not been a particularly successful line.
^ I don't necessarily blame him for any shortcomings of the CC route, as the plans were in motion well before he arrived. One could argue that the reputation of Metrolink took a major hit after it opened, due to his disastrous lawsuit, and that turned off potential passengers and any hope of a true cross-county extension.
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Agreed. STL's history is full of a bunch of asses, including dumb-, fat-, and stupid-. But, that doesn't make them villains, only fallible.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Apr 20, 2018^ STL seems to have a problem with ineptitude in addition to villainy.
I posit that, while there are many asses, there's only one true -hole: Stank Kroenke. He lied, deceived, and took what he said he wouldn't, and in the process actively defamed the entire region (then had the gall to request a TIF in Maryland Heights for another strip mall). He's the classic definition of a villain in the modern age, and I'm so very much looking forward to him, and the NFL, being held accountable for their actions in a STL courtroom.
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^Stan, as bad as he hurt our pride, pales in comparison to Carl Icahn. Iachn, I think, did much more real and lasting harm to the region. And like any good villain he did so fully consciously and well appraised of the possible damages entirely for his own personal gain. (Which he got and kept, I believe.) The Rams are a football team. Meh. So what? TWA was one of the first dominoes down in a terrible chain of corporate relocations that has not yet ended; a blow to both our prestige and to our very profitability, to our connection with the rest of the world. We will, I believe, recover. But it's been a very very long fight. Icahn is a straight up old-school villain. A bond villain trading in the lives and livelihoods of thousands. Kroenke is a cartoon villain tying a rocket to his back to catch a Hollywood illusion. So far they've both gotten away with it. But there is a difference.
Nextstl - Harland Bartholomew: Destroyer of the Urban Fabric of St. Louis
https://nextstl.com/2021/04/harland-bar ... -st-louis/
https://nextstl.com/2021/04/harland-bar ... -st-louis/
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I was thinking Whitacre also. When he moved SW Bell (now AT&T) to San Antonio, he said,
″This move will put us closer to more of our major growth markets and customers,″ Whitacre said. ″Another consideration is our work with Telmex, the Mexican telephone company. That’s an important market for us, and San Antonio serves as the gateway to Mexico.″
So now that SW Bell is AT&T and a national company, St. Louis is now closer to the center of it's customers than Texas. On the other hand, AT&T stock price performance has been dismal, especially compared to other tech and comm stocks. You have have to wonder if the tower downtown would be empty now even if SW Bell had stayed. Poor management.
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If you think about it our economy heavily relies on companies that the world at large would consider villains. Off the top of my head we've got Bayer (Monsanto), Peabody Coal, Wells Fargo, Mallinckrodt, DuPont, and AB (at least in the beer world.) I'm sure there are more.
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Don't forget the Cardinals, and the vocal minority here that loathe St. Louis City SC.
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Going down this path is inherently dangerous...GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021If you think about it our economy heavily relies on companies that the world at large would consider villains. Off the top of my head we've got Bayer (Monsanto), Peabody Coal, Wells Fargo, Mallinckrodt, DuPont, and AB (at least in the beer world.) I'm sure there are more.
10. Alcohol
9. Auto Pollution
8. Firearms
7. Wall Street
6. Nuclear Materials
5. Legal Heroin & Cocaine Manufacturing
4. Genetically Modified Organisms
3. Corporate Healthcare
2. Fossil Fuels
1. Military Industrial Complex
We have significance in all these industry clusters which, if you think about it long enough, will make a lot people cry. All those laser guided bombs being dropped by MDS on the Yemeni rebels? Many of our friends and neighbors literally make those... as well as the warplanes they are dropped from. They also make the machines that allow us to visit our families across the country at reasonable prices, as well as being fundamental to NASA & Space Exploration, and provide the backbone to our nation's defense. You've got to take the good with the bad here.
Kroenke is still human garbage.
I think Gary nails it on last two words in his comments. My two cents on ATT, talk about company that has made some real bad acquisitions and truly behind the curve on most of them. Now they find themselves in position of trying to invest just enough 5G but not enough because of their debt load while at some time passing things off with marketing tricks and poor customer service.gary kreie wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021I was thinking Whitacre also. When he moved SW Bell (now AT&T) to San Antonio, he said,
″This move will put us closer to more of our major growth markets and customers,″ Whitacre said. ″Another consideration is our work with Telmex, the Mexican telephone company. That’s an important market for us, and San Antonio serves as the gateway to Mexico.″
So now that SW Bell is AT&T and a national company, St. Louis is now closer to the center of it's customers than Texas. On the other hand, AT&T stock price performance has been dismal, especially compared to other tech and comm stocks. You have have to wonder if the tower downtown would be empty now even if SW Bell had stayed. Poor management.
I also think ATT would have made the leap to Dallas and or Atlanta even if SW Bell didn't move to San Antonio in first place. In addition, ATT truly went through a office diet and incorporated shared workspace well before Covid so 909 Chestnut most likely be empty at end of day. From business perspective, reducing their real estate footprint it is probably one of their smarter decisions as of late.
I'm guess he gets some credit for plowing highways through St. Louis
https://themetropole.blog/2021/04/05/th ... -highways/One of these men was Rex Whitton. As Missouri’s chief engineer, Whitton was among the leadership cadre of both AASHO and the Highway Research Board throughout the 1950s. He participated in the Sagamore Conference and was an appointed member of the committee behind Woodbury’s Framework report. At the Board’s executive committee meeting in 1960, Whitton voiced his frustration at the slow pace of urban research, pointing out that they were locating the expressways in cities now. In 1961 President Kennedy would appoint Whitton federal highway administrator. He would be a champion of the new “3C” planning process—continuing, comprehensive, and cooperative—adopted for urban areas in the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1962. This planning law should be understood as an attempt to put the force of federal law and funding behind the vision, ethic, and methods promoted in the Guide and at the Sagamore Conference.[28]
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I think GoHarv was trying to say more or less the same thing. I honestly think Monsanto get an unduly bad rep. While I won't pretend mistakes haven't been made, I genuinely believe they've made life better for more people and the mistakes were mostly honest. Better living through chemistry.gone corporate wrote: ↑Apr 13, 2021Going down this path is inherently dangerous...
We have significance in all these industry clusters which, if you think about it long enough, will make a lot people cry. All those laser guided bombs being dropped by MDS on the Yemeni rebels? Many of our friends and neighbors literally make those... as well as the warplanes they are dropped from. They also make the machines that allow us to visit our families across the country at reasonable prices, as well as being fundamental to NASA & Space Exploration, and provide the backbone to our nation's defense. You've got to take the good with the bad here.
Kroenke is still human garbage.
But yes, Kroenke is still horrible. May his (football) fields be forever barren and empty.
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Ugh. Lotta gross comments on NextSTL. I've really gotta stop reading them.quincunx wrote: ↑Apr 12, 2021Nextstl - Harland Bartholomew: Destroyer of the Urban Fabric of St. Louis
https://nextstl.com/2021/04/harland-bar ... -st-louis/
I find it ironic that people who oppose GMOs tend to be more liberal, and otherwise pro-science, while those who generally accept them tend to be more conservative, and more skeptical of science. It's kind of like the playbook has been flipped on this one (keep in mind, scientists have been assuring us for decades that GMOs are perfectly safe for human consumption).
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The GMO debate blows my mind, so many otherwise reasonable people avoid them like the plague. I blame the advertising industry that feels the need to slap "GMO Free" on everything, normalizing the aversion to it.