St. Louis Rams

dweebe · PostSep 09, 2013#12512013-09-09T15:44+00:00

debaliviere wrote:I, too, was a little surprised that the dome wasn't full, but there was still a fairly large crowd there yesterday. Considering that the Cards were playing as well - I know a few people who had tickets for both games and went to the Cards game first, then walked to the dome - I guess maybe that's to be expected.

The Rams game was a blast, and the crowd brought lots of energy. Hopefully starting off the season 1-0 for the first time since 2006 will help generate some additional buzz and ticket sales for the next game.

I was at the game.

It wasn't as bad as some people made it out to be attendance-wise. I was sitting in the lower bowl in the end zone and that was full. It was the upper deck that was 80% full my guess. Was it a true sell-out? No. But with a playoff importance Cardinal game going on down the street and other things like LouFest, ArtFair going on it wasn't a surprise. One 7-8-1 season is not going to fill the Dome back up for every game. (Plus you're not going to get many Arizona Cardinal fans travelling here.)

But I will say that it had to have been one of the loudest games I've heard in a number of years.

goat314 · PostSep 09, 2013#12522013-09-09T16:45+00:00

To be honest, I've been to NFL games in a few cities (Tampa, Jacksonville, Miami, and Atlanta) and I've never seen one be completely sold out unless it was a playoff game.

gary kreie · PostSep 09, 2013#12532013-09-09T17:44+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:Anyone attend the game yestereday? I was not there,but I heard there were several thousand empty seats. I am not sure why this was not a full house sellout. The excitement is greater than it has been in years. I heard there were thousands of empty seats. I wonder if ownership took notice. I hope not! This does not make the case for Stan keeping the team in STL. I do not know have much owners care about attendance, if the tix are purchased. Anyone have the tickets sold figure, versus ACTUAL attendance? I know the money is not at the gate for owners, but who really knows what makes Stan tick. Does he care that the attendance was 55K (according to AM 920). I know it ended up being a nice day, Cards game at the same time, Loufest, on top of the Dome's poor dark atmosphere and lack of tailgating, but come on, 10K empty seats on opening day! Not good STL!

I just hope that ownership sees this as a challenge to improve the on-the-field product and push to get the Rams into an outdoor facility IN ST. LOUIS!!!

Uh, the reason it wasn't full is because you didn't come to the game.

I was there, and it was a very good game and a fun time. You can find cheap tickets on Stubhub, and there are only 8 regular games per year. The team is ranked at 12 of 32 or better in many rankings -- better than many traditionally good teams, such as Dallas, where they drew 90,000 yesterday.

I guess the lure of a comfy chair at home where you can switch quickly between multiple HDTV games during all the play stoppages is too attractive to St. Louisans. Would an open stadium have been more attractive yesterday? During stadium negotiations, the Rams did terrific job of convincing the fan base that the dome is just a horrible horrible place to have to watch football. Now they are wondering why nobody shows up.

dweebe · PostSep 09, 2013#12542013-09-09T18:11+00:00

gary kreie wrote:The team is ranked at 12 of 32 or better in many rankings -- better than many traditionally good teams, such as Dallas, where they drew 90,000 yesterday.

Rankings don't mean anything. The main reason the Dome wasn't full yesterday?
2012: 7-8-1
2011: 2-14
2010: 7-9
2009: 1-15
2008: 2-14
2007: 3-13
Plus the Rams hadn't won a home opener since like 2005 or 2006.

gary kreie wrote: Would an open stadium have been more attractive yesterday?

To be honest I usually skip a number of the September/October games at the Dome because I hate being inside on a nice day. I work in a windowless office 50+ hours a week and the last thing I want to do is be stuck in a gloomy dome for 3 1/2 hours during the afternoon on a nice weekend. Once the weather gets worse in November that's when I always go to home games. So at least for me an outside stadium would ensure better attendance.

gary kreie wrote: During stadium negotiations, the Rams did terrific job of convincing the fan base that the dome is just a horrible horrible place to have to watch football. Now they are wondering why nobody shows up.

I don't think that made 5000-7500 people go "You know what. We got told the Edward Jones Dome is a dump: let's not go to the Rams game."

DogtownBnR · PostSep 09, 2013#12552013-09-09T18:50+00:00

I wish I could have gone. Taking a baby, 2 other kids and a cousin's kid would have been a nightmare! I have tix for future games.

I'd have to agree that the HD experience has hurt NFL attendance. The picture is SO good on some TVs and the Sunday Ticket deal (along with people watching multiple games following fantasy teams) can't help. In the end, I agree with Dweebe. Its all about winning and building a winner. The Rams have failed miserably in that regard. I hope that changes. That record over the past several seasons, speaks for itself!

I think more people would show if we had GOOD tailgating. That is a HUGE part of the NFL experience. An outdoor stadium, with a grass surface is big too. In the end, its all about winning in STL, as evidenced by the Greatest Show days.

midcoaststl · PostSep 09, 2013#12562013-09-09T20:36+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:I wish I could have gone. Taking a baby, 2 other kids and a cousin's kid would have been a nightmare! I have tix for future games.

I'd have to agree that the HD experience has hurt NFL attendance. The picture is SO good on some TVs and the Sunday Ticket deal (along with people watching multiple games following fantasy teams) can't help. In the end, I agree with Dweebe. Its all about winning and building a winner. The Rams have failed miserably in that regard. I hope that changes. That record over the past several seasons, speaks for itself!

I think more people would show if we had GOOD tailgating. That is a HUGE part of the NFL experience. An outdoor stadium, with a grass surface is big too. In the end, its all about winning in STL, as evidenced by the Greatest Show days.

It has always boggled my mind on the whole STL has bad tailgating.. I have had season tickets since I moved back to STL in 2006. We tailgate every game in the 9th and convention lot. I get it that one giant lot would be cool, but why? Do people plan on trying to hang out with everyone in the lot? The two lots on convention are plenty big and full of tailgaters, as are several others around the dome. Throw in the fact that you can stop by a bar or two on your way in and I think tailgating for the Rams games are plenty fun...

With that being said, I was embarrassed by our attendance yesterday.

jstriebel · PostSep 10, 2013#12572013-09-10T03:18+00:00

The Rams have built up an enormous amount of good will with their actions in the community and the uptick in the product. But capacity crowds aren't going to happen over night.

It will probably take a playoff berth for the city to fully believe the Rams have a quality product again. Don't confuse that with meaning they have to make the playoffs every year to have good attendance. But until they do, it's way too easy to dismiss the Rams as still not very good.

They have the fanbase excited now. Make the playoffs, and they'll lock a lot of people in. Fortunately, I think this is the year for that.

Also, worth noting that they came dangerously close to squandering a lot of the excitement they had built up. Mistakes happen in football games, of course, but that win was crucial well beyond the standings. You can recover from 0-1 in the standings, but so many people would have shaken their heads and decided the hype was just hype and that these are the "same old Rams" (even though they clearly aren't, whether they had won or lost).

So that win was super important. It wasn't pretty. It wasn't even fully satisfying. But it was gosh darn important.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 10, 2013#12582013-09-10T12:55+00:00

Midcoaststl, you are right. You can have fun tailgating Downtown, in the various lots, but I'm sorry, it is not the same as a huge lot full of people partying. It is like saying, going to a festival with 100 people, would give you the same experience as going to a festival with 10K people. Its not the same. I attending games at Busch Stadium, Mizzou, Arrowhead and others. Its not the same here! Then you have to march into a dark dome, when it is 75-80 degrees out and sunny. Football is meant to be played outside, around a large stadium with plenty of tailtgating in ONE big place, for the most part. The tailgating at Busch Stadium II was amazing. Huge crowds in one place. That is what it was all about. That was cool and it wasn't even as big as most lots, like Arrowhead. How awesome would it be to have a huge stadium with a huge lot, along the riverfront, just north of the Landing or south of Downtown! That is what I'm hoping for!

dweebe · PostSep 10, 2013#12592013-09-10T16:06+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:Midcoaststl, you are right. You can have fun tailgating Downtown, in the various lots, but I'm sorry, it is not the same as a huge lot full of people partying. It is like saying, going to a festival with 100 people, would give you the same experience as going to a festival with 10K people. Its not the same. I attending games at Busch Stadium, Mizzou, Arrowhead and others. Its not the same here! Then you have to march into a dark dome, when it is 75-80 degrees out and sunny. Football is meant to be played outside, around a large stadium with plenty of tailtgating in ONE big place, for the most part. The tailgating at Busch Stadium II was amazing. Huge crowds in one place. That is what it was all about. That was cool and it wasn't even as big as most lots, like Arrowhead.

Every year I "road trip" to at least one Rams away game. I've been to NFL stadiums like Tennessee, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Miami etc. Here are my thoughts.

I don't think the tailgating situation is as bad as some people make it out to be. It's still a good time with lots of fun going on. But the disjointed and spread out nature of all the smaller lots certainly diminishes the larger crowd effect like you get at a place like Arrowhead.

Plus I think the smaller/more spread out lots contributes to the "bad fan" wrap we get. Almost all Rams crowds seem to arrive late with the stadium seemingly half full at kickoff. At stadiums with large lots, one hour before kickoff you see people breaking their tailgates down in preparation of heading towards the stadium. By 30 minutes to kickoff you're either heading in or busting your hump to get going as waves of people pass you.

Also, a majority of the lots around the Edward Jones Dome are not paved. So like this last Sunday when it rained in the morning, half of the lots were a muddy mess. Just look at lots like the McGwire one or the lots north of the Landing: almost all are grass, dirt or gravel. It just makes tailgating not as easy. It would be damned nice in my opinion if everything around a new Rams stadium was paved. We're even thinking about maybe using the Ballparking Village Lot for the 49ers Thursday night game later this month.

Lastly: I think the poor design of the entrances to the Edward Jones dome are a hindrance.
-the Edward Jones Dome has 4 main entrances for 65000 fans. And they're a 3 stage process with security>>>doors>>>ticket takers. That is why it takes to long to get in.
- of the top of my head I think Busch Stadium has 7 or 8 general fan entrances.
- I swear it seems like LP Field in Nashville has a dozen ways to get in
- Tampa Bay's stadium has like 8 entrance points
- AT&T Stadium in the Dallas area is kind of a cluster with 4 main entrances I think. But the plazas at the ends are huge and wide and there are a number of VIP/box/suite holder only entrances.

DogtownBnR wrote:How awesome would it be to have a huge stadium with a huge lot, along the riverfront, just north of the Landing or south of Downtown! That is what I'm hoping for!

We're on the same page.

jstriebel · PostSep 10, 2013#12602013-09-10T16:11+00:00

Not to pick on you Dogtown, but I can't stand when people say things like "football is meant to be played..."

No. Football is meant to be played on a field marked with the proper boundaries with a regulation ball. The other stuff is all up for debate and experimenting and preference. It's not meant to be played outdoors vs indoors. Not meant to be played in the cold vs the heat. Not meant to be played in the rain or the snow vs. beautiful weather. And it's sure as heck not dependent on whether massive parking lots surround the stadium or a downtown cityscape.

This is St. Louis, and we should create the best stadium and football environment that suits us and the organization that wants to call our region home. Just because a lot of fanbases tailgate in swaths of parking doesn't mean we have to.

For what it's worth, I'm not a huge tailgating fan. It's fine. But it doesn't get me crazed up. There's any number of other suitable and similar alternatives that work just fine for me. And I'd hate to give up having the Rams downtown in favor of moving them to the county just for the sake of tailgating.

EDIT: I see you suggest they stay pretty close to downtown just putting the parking there. I think there could be some sort of compromise. I'd like to see development surround the stadium and not just parking. But I'm sure you could do a good chunk of surface parking and development. Compromise the urban environment and the tailgating experience.

I do prefer an open-air stadium, by the way. I just call hogwash on the idea that football in one environment is more purely football than football in another. The game is the game in all of those places.

dweebe · PostSep 10, 2013#12612013-09-10T16:34+00:00

jstriebel wrote:Not to pick on you Dogtown, but I can't stand when people say things like "football is meant to be played..."

No. Football is meant to be played on a field marked with the proper boundaries with a regulation ball. The other stuff is all up for debate and experimenting and preference. It's not meant to be played outdoors vs indoors. Not meant to be played in the cold vs the heat. Not meant to be played in the rain or the snow vs. beautiful weather. And it's sure as heck not dependent on whether massive parking lots surround the stadium or a downtown cityscape.

I do prefer an open-air stadium, by the way. I just call hogwash on the idea that football in one environment is more purely football than football in another. The game is the game in all of those places.

I respectfully disagree. Football should be played on God's green grass and under His blue sky: not indoors on plastic.

Please reference George Carlin's "Baseball and Football" bit.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml

midcoaststl · PostSep 10, 2013#12622013-09-10T17:01+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:Midcoaststl, you are right. You can have fun tailgating Downtown, in the various lots, but I'm sorry, it is not the same as a huge lot full of people partying. It is like saying, going to a festival with 100 people, would give you the same experience as going to a festival with 10K people. Its not the same. I attending games at Busch Stadium, Mizzou, Arrowhead and others. Its not the same here! Then you have to march into a dark dome, when it is 75-80 degrees out and sunny. Football is meant to be played outside, around a large stadium with plenty of tailtgating in ONE big place, for the most part. The tailgating at Busch Stadium II was amazing. Huge crowds in one place. That is what it was all about. That was cool and it wasn't even as big as most lots, like Arrowhead. How awesome would it be to have a huge stadium with a huge lot, along the riverfront, just north of the Landing or south of Downtown! That is what I'm hoping for!

I understand your point and I agree that our current situation is not "perfect" but the people who complain about our tailgating is a little overblown imo. We share the same dream: I want a outdoor or at least a retractable roof stadium on the North Riverfront. (Perhaps with the end zone up against the new bridge and an open end zone or large window showing the STL skyline... The outer concourses would have river views and Stan could put paved and secure parking around the stadium with some retail and other development closer to the landing and Lumiere Place!)

And yes, even though I have a great time, grilling, drinking, throwing the football outside, no one wants to walk into the dark dome on a nice day, but when they win it is all worth it.

dweebe · PostSep 10, 2013#12632013-09-10T17:09+00:00

midcoaststl wrote:And yes, even though I have a great time, grilling, drinking, throwing the football outside, no one wants to walk into the dark dome on a nice day, but when they win it is all worth it.

There is nothing worse than walking into the Dome on a beautiful, crisp fall afternoon when it's like 65 degrees and there's not a cloud in the sky. Especially in previous years when it would be late October, with nice weather, it's halfway through the season and the Rams have yet to win a game.

debaliviere · PostSep 10, 2013#12642013-09-10T17:36+00:00

There is nothing worse than walking into the Dome on a beautiful, crisp fall afternoon when it's like 65 degrees and there's not a cloud in the sky.

It felt pretty damn nice on Sunday, however.

dweebe · PostSep 10, 2013#12652013-09-10T17:42+00:00

debaliviere wrote:
There is nothing worse than walking into the Dome on a beautiful, crisp fall afternoon when it's like 65 degrees and there's not a cloud in the sky.
It felt pretty damn nice on Sunday, however.

True. The same can be said for a late December game when it's cloudy, windy and like 25 degrees.

innov8ion · PostSep 10, 2013#12662013-09-10T17:46+00:00

dweebe wrote:
debaliviere wrote:
There is nothing worse than walking into the Dome on a beautiful, crisp fall afternoon when it's like 65 degrees and there's not a cloud in the sky.
It felt pretty damn nice on Sunday, however.
True. The same can be said for a late December game when it's cloudy, windy and like 25 degrees.

Which is the beauty of convertible roofs.

gary kreie · PostSep 10, 2013#12672013-09-10T19:06+00:00

So how big is the patch of blue out the hole in the top of the Dallas stadium. What if we Velcro 20,000 iPads to the inside of the Dome ceiling with all of them running Skype to a camera of the sky above Dallas. (cost = $10 million.) Is it really worth cutting a hole just so we can call it playing outdoors?

I've always thought they could make the place cheerier just by adding a lot more ceiling lights, which tricks our brains into thinking it is not constantly overcast and depressing Seattle. Currently, it is as if we have mass Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) all year long.

The NFL’s retractable roof stadiums stay closed for 66 percent of all games. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html If we hold one pre-season game in Busch Stadium, and two regular season games in Busch Stadium, and the rest in the EJDome, it will be just like having a retractable roof.

dweebe · PostSep 10, 2013#12682013-09-10T19:13+00:00

gary kreie wrote:The NFL’s retractable roof stadiums stay closed for 66 percent of all games. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html If we hold one pre-season game in Busch Stadium, and two regular season games in Busch Stadium, and the rest in the EJDome, it will be just like having a retractable roof.

When I was in Dallas two years ago they had the roof closed on an 85 degree day with like a 20% chance of rain forecast. In fact AFTER the game they opened the roof and left the stadium lit up for the Cardinal/Rangers World Series game a few blocks away.

I've said it before: I'd love it if the Rams copy Seattle's stadium or the the soccer stadiums of Europe. Open air but a majority of the seats are covered. Retractable roofs on football stadiums are an expensive fad IMHO.

jstriebel · PostSep 10, 2013#12692013-09-10T21:32+00:00

dweebe wrote:
jstriebel wrote:Not to pick on you Dogtown, but I can't stand when people say things like "football is meant to be played..."

No. Football is meant to be played on a field marked with the proper boundaries with a regulation ball. The other stuff is all up for debate and experimenting and preference. It's not meant to be played outdoors vs indoors. Not meant to be played in the cold vs the heat. Not meant to be played in the rain or the snow vs. beautiful weather. And it's sure as heck not dependent on whether massive parking lots surround the stadium or a downtown cityscape.

I do prefer an open-air stadium, by the way. I just call hogwash on the idea that football in one environment is more purely football than football in another. The game is the game in all of those places.
I respectfully disagree. Football should be played on God's green grass and under His blue sky: not indoors on plastic.

Please reference George Carlin's "Baseball and Football" bit.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml

Familiar with the bit. Carlin was great.

But I just disagree. The game is the game is the game.

I'd in fact say there is a strong case to be made that a football game in a climate controlled venue on a perfect field (whether that's authentic or artificial turf) is the MOST pure example of the game. Afterall, then the players can just play to their full abilities with out outside impacts on their performance and the results.

I wouldn't make that case because the game can be played anywhere and it adjusts to its environment.

But if I had to make a choice about what pure football really was, I probably wouldn't pick the version that is most likely to limit players abilities.

And again, all of that said, I'd still like to see the Rams playing in St. Louis in an outdoor stadium. But it's not because I believe that's how the game is supposed to be.

gary kreie · PostSep 11, 2013#12702013-09-11T17:58+00:00

One way teams sell out games is with fans from the AWAY team showing up in droves. It could be people who moved to your town but still support their hometown team, or it could be people who travel from the AWAY town.

This year, many of the AWAY teams for Rams home games are very very far away, and their fans won't show up. The NFL penalized St. Louis as part of the agreement to allow the move from LA by pairing them with Seattle, SF, and Arizona during re-alignment. So St. Louis will always have at least 3 games where we cannot expect AWAY fans to drive here or to have moved here. And this year, we add Jacksonville and Tampa Bay which are too far away for driving and likely have very few fans living in St. Louis. The Chicago and Tennessee games, however, will sell-out. And probably New Orleans also, since it is close enough and good enough to bring their own fans.

Home games against Midwest towns like KC, Indy, Chicago, Minnesota, Detroit, Tennessee, Cincinnati, and even Dallas typically bring tons of fans who moved here or are willing to make the reasonable drive here to see their teams. (And Rams fans reciprocate in their towns.)

Imagine how it would be if the Rams were in a Midwest division. Chicago's gets to play nearby teams from Detroit, Green Bay, and Minnesota every year. And this year, they add Cincinnati, Dallas, and New Orleans. Their other two home games are NY Giants, and Baltimore Ravens. No Florida teams and no West Coast teams at all.

How many games would the Rams sell out if we had the Bears schedule?

dweebe · PostSep 11, 2013#12712013-09-11T18:58+00:00

gary kreie wrote:One way teams sell out games is with fans from the AWAY team showing up in droves. It could be people who moved to your town but still support their hometown team, or it could be people who travel from the AWAY town.

This year, many of the AWAY teams for Rams home games are very very far away, and their fans won't show up. The NFL penalized St. Louis as part of the agreement to allow the move from LA by pairing them with Seattle, SF, and Arizona during re-alignment. So St. Louis will always have at least 3 games where we cannot expect AWAY fans to drive here or to have moved here. And this year, we add Jacksonville and Tampa Bay which are too far away for driving and likely have very few fans living in St. Louis. The Chicago and Tennessee games, however, will sell-out. And probably New Orleans also, since it is close enough and good enough to bring their own fans.

Home games against Midwest towns like KC, Indy, Chicago, Minnesota, Detroit, Tennessee, Cincinnati, and even Dallas typically bring tons of fans who moved here or are willing to make the reasonable drive here to see their teams. (And Rams fans reciprocate in their towns.)

Imagine how it would be if the Rams were in a Midwest division. Chicago's gets to play nearby teams from Detroit, Green Bay, and Minnesota every year. And this year, they add Cincinnati, Dallas, and New Orleans. Their other two home games are NY Giants, and Baltimore Ravens. No Florida teams and no West Coast teams at all.

How many games would the Rams sell out if we had the Bears schedule?

Bingo. You just don't see many away fans here in St. Louis for division games. It's also tough for Rams fans to travel as every division game means flying. As I've stated before I've traveled to a number of Rams games. But you know where I haven't been? San Francisco, Seattle or Arizona.

Mark Groth · PostSep 12, 2013#12722013-09-12T13:47+00:00

I have a naive question. I have purchased my first ever Rams tickets for the Dec 15th game against the Saints. The group I'm with (Saints fans unfortunately) want to tailgate and I found a parking lot just east of the Shrine of St. Joseph in Columbus Square (Carr and 10th). Does that lot fill up fast for tailgating? How does this work? Is it first come first serve? Do these spots get reserved? How early do they let you in to the lot? Sorry for the rookie questions. Any info would be great. Go Rams!

debaliviere · PostSep 12, 2013#12732013-09-12T14:08+00:00

^
I believe that lot is a pretty popular tailgating spot. As far as I know, all the lots are first come, first served, but some lots sell season parking passes too. We have a season pass for our parking lot, but anyone can park there for $25, space permitting.

Since you'll be tailgating, you'll probably get there pretty early anyway, so I think you'll be ok.

dweebe · PostSep 12, 2013#12742013-09-12T14:42+00:00

Mark Groth wrote:I have a naive question. I have purchased my first ever Rams tickets for the Dec 15th game against the Saints. The group I'm with (Saints fans unfortunately) want to tailgate and I found a parking lot just east of the Shrine of St. Joseph in Columbus Square (Carr and 10th). Does that lot fill up fast for tailgating?

Yes, that lot is always full and fills up fast. It seems to be a lot of the same vehicles/tailgaters. I think those people like it because that lot is paved and not the rocky/muddy mess like the McGwire lot is.

Mark Groth wrote:Do these spots get reserved?

I don't believe so. The only lot I think that has reserved spots is the one behind that America's Best Inn motel. (But don't hold me to it.) IIRC they have numbered slots and certain ones are assigned to season parkers.

Mark Groth wrote: How early do they let you in to the lot?

Usually 7am for a noon game.

PostSep 12, 2013#12752013-09-12T14:43+00:00

debaliviere wrote:^
I believe that lot is a pretty popular tailgating spot. As far as I know, all the lots are first come, first served, but some lots sell season parking passes too. We have a season pass for our parking lot, but anyone can park there for $25, space permitting.

Which lot are you in that's $25?

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