I keep hearing that the Maplewood district is trending upward, starting with the grade schools - I'd expect the jr. highs and high schools to improve once the current grade school kids get older. Apparently the superintendent and principals in Maplewood are great.rdohrman wrote:I wonder if the Mid-County area of town is going to gain a lot of population (i.e. Maplewood, Richmond Heights, Brentwood, and even Webster) since it provides people with a close-to-the-city location and good schools. We currently live in Maplewood-Richmond Heights and I've heard a lot of great things about the school here. We are currently selling our house (because we want a different house) and will be looking at Webster Groves, Maplewood/Richmond Heights and the DeMun/Moorlands areas of Clayton for our next house. I've researched all three of these districts a lot and I see a lot of pros and cons to each of them. It just strikes me that the mid-county areas may stand to be the big winner in the anti-suburbia plus concern about city schools discourse.
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Two additional pennies here...I can understand some hesitation for a non-Catholic to put their kids in Catholic schools...Especially if Nicki Minaj or Lady Gaga are the most "Catholic" experiences one encounters day to day...I would suggest that ruling these schools out (or any parochial school) prior to investigating test scores, curriculum, class size, others' experiences might be a bit short-sighted for some...
The Church has a rich social justice tradition, an amazing record of academic achievment being built from the ground up and is anything but "unscientific"...The sterotype held by some that faith is opposed to reason stems from extremes within different camps on the issue imo...It can argued quite strongly that in fact modern science arose within Europe because of Christian philosophy and culture and not despite it.....
But who really cares about all that here...I'm sure cost is the driving force for most if not all, especially if one ends up paying for school twice through taxes and private tuition...
The Church has a rich social justice tradition, an amazing record of academic achievment being built from the ground up and is anything but "unscientific"...The sterotype held by some that faith is opposed to reason stems from extremes within different camps on the issue imo...It can argued quite strongly that in fact modern science arose within Europe because of Christian philosophy and culture and not despite it.....
But who really cares about all that here...I'm sure cost is the driving force for most if not all, especially if one ends up paying for school twice through taxes and private tuition...
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Well, first there were racist policies that allowed white people with means to leave the city and basically kept all blacks in the city. The white flight decimated the financial an social structure of the city. Then, eventually, black people with means were able to flee as well. If what we're seeing now is black family flight from the city, it's the result of our past.RobbyD wrote:...what the city is currently facing is black family flight, I think...how does racism explain this trend?
Well, my wife and I did the math and have decided to stay in the City for the foreseeable future. For now, we will probably go the private route via a Catholic or Christian school. Beyond finances, I also STRONGLY believe that there will continue to be an influx of young professionals who grew up in the County (like myself) to the City. On my street alone we have at least 3 young families who all grew up in the County. In order to keep people like this around, the City is going to have to provide more options when it comes to schools. And they are. 5 years ago there were almost no magnet/gifted schools in the city whereas today there are quite a few. 10 years from now I bet the options are MUCH better.
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GREAT to hear! And I think you're right.iowa09 wrote:Well, my wife and I did the math and have decided to stay in the City for the foreseeable future. For now, we will probably go the private route via a Catholic or Christian school. Beyond finances, I also STRONGLY believe that there will continue to be an influx of young professionals who grew up in the County (like myself) to the City. On my street alone we have at least 3 young families who all grew up in the County. In order to keep people like this around, the City is going to have to provide more options when it comes to schools. And they are. 5 years ago there were almost no magnet/gifted schools in the city whereas today there are quite a few. 10 years from now I bet the options are MUCH better.
Very well put. As an aside, some of the anti-religious/Catholic comments I have heard (not saying here) are almost as bad as racists comments. Its a shame people are so disrespectful and hateful... especially if it is the difference between their children getting a good education or a poor one.RobbyD wrote:Two additional pennies here...I can understand some hesitation for a non-Catholic to put their kids in Catholic schools...Especially if Nicki Minaj or Lady Gaga are the most "Catholic" experiences one encounters day to day...I would suggest that ruling these schools out (or any parochial school) prior to investigating test scores, curriculum, class size, others' experiences might be a bit short-sighted for some...
The Church has a rich social justice tradition, an amazing record of academic achievment being built from the ground up and is anything but "unscientific"...The sterotype held by some that faith is opposed to reason stems from extremes within different camps on the issue imo...It can argued quite strongly that in fact modern science arose within Europe because of Christian philosophy and culture and not despite it.....
But who really cares about all that here...I'm sure cost is the driving force for most if not all, especially if one ends up paying for school twice through taxes and private tuition...
Glad to see you were able to stay! I can't agree more that the City needs to provide a growing number of quality options and yes, it has gotten a bit better over the years. Lets hope that trend continues!iowa09 wrote:Well, my wife and I did the math and have decided to stay in the City for the foreseeable future. For now, we will probably go the private route via a Catholic or Christian school. Beyond finances, I also STRONGLY believe that there will continue to be an influx of young professionals who grew up in the County (like myself) to the City. On my street alone we have at least 3 young families who all grew up in the County. In order to keep people like this around, the City is going to have to provide more options when it comes to schools. And they are. 5 years ago there were almost no magnet/gifted schools in the city whereas today there are quite a few. 10 years from now I bet the options are MUCH better.
General question for the native St. Louisans or transplants with kids, is it common for non-Catholic families to send their children to Catholic schools here? I'm a non-Catholic who grew up in a pretty Catholic part of Louisiana, and it wasn't unusual for non-Catholic kids to go to the local Catholic schools (as I did for high school, go Falcons). On the other hand, there weren't many private non-Catholic schools around, and the ones that existed were much more expensive than their Catholic counterparts. Just curious if things are similar here.
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http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... 0f31a.html
Could this unwittingly be the solution that ends the City school problem?
Quote from article:
In total, Jones said there could be as many as 15,000 city students transferring into county schools under the law. It would effectively bankrupt St. Louis Public Schools, which would be responsible for paying costs of tuition and transportation totalling $263.8 million to $283.8 million." end quote
It would rid the City of the financial and social burden that is St. Louis Public Schools and open the door for a fresh start with charter and private schools leading the way and hopefully giving families with a priority on education a real reason to move back to the city.
I'm all for giving the these unfixable problems to the County, they deserve it. Could this be an unintended consequence that works in STLs favor for a change?
Could this unwittingly be the solution that ends the City school problem?
Quote from article:
In total, Jones said there could be as many as 15,000 city students transferring into county schools under the law. It would effectively bankrupt St. Louis Public Schools, which would be responsible for paying costs of tuition and transportation totalling $263.8 million to $283.8 million." end quote
It would rid the City of the financial and social burden that is St. Louis Public Schools and open the door for a fresh start with charter and private schools leading the way and hopefully giving families with a priority on education a real reason to move back to the city.
I'm all for giving the these unfixable problems to the County, they deserve it. Could this be an unintended consequence that works in STLs favor for a change?
I should add that this could only be a positive for the kids in the failing STL public schools as well.
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For those of us in suburban districts, this is not a positive.leeharveyawesome wrote:I should add that this could only be a positive for the kids in the failing STL public schools as well.
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This is a by product of 50 years of neglect that the region turned a blind eye to.
Agree as parent who has a kid in both public and private.downtown2007 wrote:This is a by product of 50 years of neglect that the region turned a blind eye to.
SLPS took a big step forward with stable leadership under state control along with and a willingness by its residents to approve a bond measure that the leadership put forward for once. Different then when I first moved to the area and SLPS school board that was a three ring circus. In the same breath, I don't think the suburban schools in St. Louis County from my own experience as parent are really that great after my families latest move out of state. Yes, they might be a notch above SLPS but I think their is very few that compete on a nationwide basis.
Simply put, I don't think sending kids or encouraging kids to move to other school districts solves anything. It comes down to having good administrations engaging parents and being able to teach kids in safe, secure, and well disciplined school. For Better or Worse, Having SLSP taken over by the state has been one of the better moves that has happened for the area recently and the better school districts in the area will fair much better if they find ways to help SLSP.
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Agree. Work together not against.
Urban issues always catch up to people that run and hide from them.
Urban issues always catch up to people that run and hide from them.
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If only it were that easy. Charter schools haven't exactly proven to be any better than the public schools (not saying there can't be good charter schools, but there are plenty that have performed worse then the public schools they were replacing) and the enrollment study that SLPS referenced suggests that the prospect of "free" tuition at County public schools would cost City private schools several thousand students, which would likely mean some private schools would close and City families would have fewer "city" options for education.leeharveyawesome wrote:http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... 0f31a.html
Could this unwittingly be the solution that ends the City school problem?
Quote from article:
In total, Jones said there could be as many as 15,000 city students transferring into county schools under the law. It would effectively bankrupt St. Louis Public Schools, which would be responsible for paying costs of tuition and transportation totalling $263.8 million to $283.8 million." end quote
It would rid the City of the financial and social burden that is St. Louis Public Schools and open the door for a fresh start with charter and private schools leading the way and hopefully giving families with a priority on education a real reason to move back to the city.
I'm all for giving the these unfixable problems to the County, they deserve it. Could this be an unintended consequence that works in STLs favor for a change?
A new charter school for downtown and Lafayette Square called Lafayette Preparatory Academy is holding a fundraiser at SqWires, tomorrow (Thursday, March 15) from 5:30-8PM. If you want to help make this initiative successful you might want to attend.
INFO
INFO
Judge rejects school transfer law for students in unaccredited districts
St. Louis County school districts do not have to accept students from the city of St. Louis because the law calling for such transfers violates the Hancock amendment to the Missouri Constitution by mandating action without providing money to pay for it, a judge ruled Tuesday.
The schools are insanely frustrating and the local attitudes about public education are insane. Private schools, any way you cut it, are in my view an affront to egalitarian society. When more or less all the middle class families leave the public school system, it's no mystery that any serious fix is an uphill battle. I think the only way STL public schools will truly improve is when the middle class families start to invest in them. There is a gigantic difference between being invested in the public schools and paying taxes. Uninvested taxpayers (e.g. not using the schools) are just as much at fault for ruining the school system as trashy "parents." Basically, I can't live in the city limits until attitudes shift such that I don't get blank, pitying stares when I suggest that the public schools can very easily be a viable option for the middle class IF ONLY THEY WOULD JUST USE THEM. A novel thought, I know. But it is clearly heresy in bizarro world.
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You're right, but aren't those your vilifying saying and doing the exact same thing as you?
"Basically, I can't live in the city limits until attitudes shift such that I don't get blank, pitying stares when I suggest that the public schools can very easily be a viable option for the middle class IF ONLY THEY WOULD JUST USE THEM."
"Basically, I can't live in the city limits until attitudes shift such that I don't get blank, pitying stares when I suggest that the public schools can very easily be a viable option for the middle class IF ONLY THEY WOULD JUST USE THEM."
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Exactly. Someone has to start the process. Not saying I would necessarily, but for those saying this is the fix (which I agree with), there has to be a starting point.
Maybe there would be a way to do it on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis? Get meetings going with the intent to "inject" a larger amount of middle-class students into a specific school at the same time to "soften the blow" so to speak?
No easy fix. That is the crux of the issue. It doesn't help when the local politicians do not utilize the system at all. Removes a lot of their incentive to actually address the issues surrounding the school system.
Maybe there would be a way to do it on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis? Get meetings going with the intent to "inject" a larger amount of middle-class students into a specific school at the same time to "soften the blow" so to speak?
No easy fix. That is the crux of the issue. It doesn't help when the local politicians do not utilize the system at all. Removes a lot of their incentive to actually address the issues surrounding the school system.
I don't know. I have never lived in the city limits. I think there are many reasons to live in STL proper, but the fact that so many St. Louisans wouldn't use the public schools even if they were the best in the world is kind of a deal killer for me. Furthermore, since private/parochial/charter schools are not options, I could live in the city, but I would still basically be forced to move once my kid is of age to attend school, unless there is a massive influx of public school-oriented middle class families into the city. I think the prospects would be a lot more appealing if the city would break up the district into neighborhood-controlled sub-districts serving the specific needs of the local student populations. The fact is there are a lot of kids from crushingly poor backgrounds in STL, especially on the north side, and those kids probably need more resources to succeed than the middle and upper class kids in the central corridor and south city - more one on one attention, more time in school, more days in school, more emotional support, more nutritional support - basically the stuff they may not be getting at home. Unfortunately because these differences largely fall along racial lines (the result of decades of segregation), it's easy to label this as "separate but equal"-ism, but it needs to be done to both give north side kids a way out and to make the district appear viable and attractive to newcomers and the middle class families that don't want their kids surrounded by a monoculture of very poor black kids. I get the impression there is almost zero meaningful diversity in the current student body. Same reason I wouldn't want to send my kid to a school comprised of nothing but rich white kids. Are there any neighborhood groups working seriously on making SLPS attractive to the middle class?
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I wanted to chime in and share a couple of observations...
After missing out on Kennard for pre-school, my son ended up going to St. Margaret of Scotland, and we couldn't have been more pleased. We are not religious and it spurred interesting questions from my son and funny moments along the way, but we never felt uncomfortable. We were quoted a stat that about 60% of students at the school are Catholic. We were pleased to the point of almost not reapplying to Kennard, but we did with the understanding that we were not going to take extraordinary measures to get him in.
Good news is he got in through the lottery, and the financial considerations made it a no brainer to make the change. Then I had an interesting conversation with a neighbor. She is a gifted resources teacher in the Ladue District, and I mentioned we had considered moving into my grandfather's old house in the district. And she said "oh no, you don't want to do that, Kennard will provide your son with much better education than you would get at a Ladue elementary." So that made me feel happy with our choice.
After missing out on Kennard for pre-school, my son ended up going to St. Margaret of Scotland, and we couldn't have been more pleased. We are not religious and it spurred interesting questions from my son and funny moments along the way, but we never felt uncomfortable. We were quoted a stat that about 60% of students at the school are Catholic. We were pleased to the point of almost not reapplying to Kennard, but we did with the understanding that we were not going to take extraordinary measures to get him in.
Good news is he got in through the lottery, and the financial considerations made it a no brainer to make the change. Then I had an interesting conversation with a neighbor. She is a gifted resources teacher in the Ladue District, and I mentioned we had considered moving into my grandfather's old house in the district. And she said "oh no, you don't want to do that, Kennard will provide your son with much better education than you would get at a Ladue elementary." So that made me feel happy with our choice.
- 11K
"the fact that so many St. Louisans wouldn't use the public schools even if they were the best in the world"
That's not a fact.
That's not a fact.
What? I'm a city homeowner and childfree by choice. Therefore, I'm paying taxes and not using the schools. Please explain to me how I'm ruining the public school system. I'm terribly curious.onecity wrote: Uninvested taxpayers (e.g. not using the schools) are just as much at fault for ruining the school system as trashy "parents."
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I understand where you're coming from and agree that any chance of creating a successful school involves a critical mass of solid, invested families...but the pessimist in me just sees people shouting segregation, gentrification and racism when you go try to tell the current families using the school that the school will only get better when there are "better" people using the school.newstl2020 wrote:Exactly. Someone has to start the process. Not saying I would necessarily, but for those saying this is the fix (which I agree with), there has to be a starting point.
Maybe there would be a way to do it on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis? Get meetings going with the intent to "inject" a larger amount of middle-class students into a specific school at the same time to "soften the blow" so to speak?
No easy fix. That is the crux of the issue. It doesn't help when the local politicians do not utilize the system at all. Removes a lot of their incentive to actually address the issues surrounding the school system.