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PostSep 07, 2009#876

Hmmm...

Maybe if United wasn't double the cost of AA or SWA to Chicago they could fill their 737 flight. Also AA and SWA practically have one flight every hour to Chicago on big planes.



Again, United priced themselves out of full planes.

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PostSep 08, 2009#877

Have to agree, I haven't seen a reasonable price out of UA for a long time. Lately, Delta seems to have some reasonably/competitive prices with SWA ever since they took over NWA

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PostSep 13, 2009#878

Tomorrow, Frontier is going to announce that they're bringing back their STL-Cancun service. Not a new market since it's served now by USA3000 but new (or resumed) international service is never a bad thing.

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PostSep 13, 2009#879

I wonder if Frontier or even JetBlue see more opportunities in STL's central location. Not holding my breath. However, it would be interesting to hear their take.

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PostSep 14, 2009#880

The idea that Frontier would have a more east central hub may someday come to fruition considering one month ago today Republic Airways Holding bought Frontier Airlines at Frontiers Bankruptcy Auction.



Based in Indy, Republic Airways Holdings (an airline investment group) owns six airlines operating in the United States: Chautauqua Airlines, Midwest Airlines, Republic Airlines, Shuttle America, Frontier Airlines, and Lynx Aviation.



However, I can see Midwest and Frontier merging sometime in the future under the Frontier name. As for further growth and/or hubs... anyone's guess... but if STL whoo's them with great incentives - a great concourse and cheaper fees - anything is possible.

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PostSep 15, 2009#881

Looks like Frontier's flights to Cancun will only be 1x weekly...



Frontier returns service from St. Louis to Cancún



Holiday travelers now have another option to Mexico. Frontier Airlines has announced it is returning air service between St. Louis and Cancún, beginning December 2009. The flights will depart every Saturday at 9:35 a.m. with returning flights arriving Saturday afternoons at 4:40 p.m.



Tickets are available for purchase now at FrontierAirlines.com.

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PostSep 16, 2009#882

Matguy, I forgot already that Republic Airlines now owns both Frontier and Midwest. With that in mind, unfortunately, I would think that Republic Airlines would favor Milwaukee over Indy over STL any day. Milwaukee taps into the huge North Chicago market/populace that would favor another direct flight market willing to avoid ORD. However, Republic Airways corporate HQ is located in Indy and they built a brand spanking new terminal (I think a link about the new terminal is posted somewhere in this thread).

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PostSep 17, 2009#883

Midwest Airlines Announces Launch of Nonstop Milwaukee-St. Louis Service



The airline will return to Lambert International.



Midwest Airlines today announced it will launch nonstop service between

Milwaukee and St. Louis beginning March 1, 2010.



The service, which will include three daily roundtrip flights

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PostSep 17, 2009#884

AA announced some schedule changes today, designed to beef up JFK, ORD, DFW, LAX and MIA. A lot of the cutting comes from STL...46 American/American Eagle flights a day cut, which eliminates 20 destinations. As a small consolation, it does look like STL-JFK service will be restored. After the cuts, there will be only 36 departures to 9 destinations...not sure of the destinations, but one can surmise five of them (ORD, DFW, JFK, MIA, LAX) which are the "hubs" plus maybe SFO, DCA, LGA and BOS or something like that.

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PostSep 17, 2009#885

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised that AA closes its maintenance facility in short order. If it is even operating or handling planes at the moment.



I also think it is time to do some serious downsizing and bulldozing at the airport including Concourse D, Air National Guard hangers, and AA maintenance facility. We have dated facilities that will not be used in the foreseeable future.



The other part, for which I don't have much confidence in Gov Nixon, is do whatever it takes to get an Air China Cargo hub started. Our best bet is with the Chinese. At some point, they are going to start a package service comparable to Fedex/UPS and will need a North American hub. Domestic air travel rebound is a long way off or even limited if HSR can materialize. Southwest's business plan doesn't favor a major hub nor regional carrier like American Eagle that hubs feed off even if they do add flights to STL.

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PostSep 17, 2009#886

By summer 2010, American will cut St. Louis service to these 20 cities: Atlanta; Austin; Des Moines; Indianapolis; Jacksonville, Fla.; Madison, Wisc.; Milwaukee; Minneapolis; Nashville; Newark, N.J.; New Orleans; Norfolk, Va.; Oklahoma City; Orlando; Raleigh-Durham, N.C.; Richmond, Va.; San Francisco; San Antonio; Washington, D.C., and Wichita, Kan.



American said it was already in the process of eliminating St. Louis service to the following 10 cities by the end of 2009: Charlotte, N.C.; Cedar Rapids, Iowa; Dayton, Ohio; Fayetteville, Ark.; Hartford, Conn.; Las Vegas; Philadelphia; San Diego; Springfield, Mo.; and Tulsa, Okla.



Isn't it odd that AA is cutting non-stop service to cities like Minneapolis and Milwaukee at the same time SW Airlines and Midwest Airlines are adding non-stops to those cities respectively from St. Louis? Looks like AA is conceding that they can't compete.

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PostSep 17, 2009#887

Wow, am I happy I quit my 80% travel job a few months ago, because I was spending enough time in O'Hare and DFW as it was.



Funny enough, this is on the front page of Southwest's website today... clearly they haven't given up on this city like AA has.




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PostSep 17, 2009#888

Ugh.. This is terrible news for Saint Louis. Our industry in the city has no chance coming back without a major airline present. :(

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PostSep 18, 2009#889

adam99420 wrote:Ugh.. This is terrible news for Saint Louis. Our industry in the city has no chance coming back without a major airline present. :(


I disagree. The airline model of the legacy carriers is to fortify more and more in the hubs and transfer people to those hubs. Pretty soon we'll be a country with



AA: DFW, ORD, MIA

UA: SFO, DEN, ORD, IAD

DL/NW: DTW, ATL, MSP? ... looks like MSP may be due for some of this soon, SLC is a shell of what it once was...

CO: IAH, EWR



STL is in the boat of lots of other cities like SEA, PDX, AUS, MSY, TPA, etc. We don't have a fortress air carrier hub, so we rely on point to point carriers like midwest, southwest, etc., and hub traffic from the legacy carriers.

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PostSep 18, 2009#890

Ugh.. This is terrible news for Saint Louis. Our industry in the city has no chance coming back without a major airline present.


I disagree too and completely agree with JMStokes.



This country's airline business is in the gutter thanks to the mergers and takeovers that are/were approved and done.



TWA, PANAM, EASTERN, NORTHWEST, AMERICAN WEST, PIEDMONT, ON AND ON have left the very few like JMstokes said (with hubs).



STL STILL has 70 NONSTOP destinations. More than many of our counterpart / comparable cities. With AA's dropped direct destinations - we will go from 82 to 70. When TWA was Lambert's big one - STL still only had 102 (at the highest period) of nonstop destinations.



STL got spoiled with TWA... and still has a great number of flights to utilize from many carriers and the prices couldn't be better. I am in NYC now - flew at 69.00 one way on a full flight AA MD80.



This articvle really sums it up:


Big cutbacks on flights in a few cities. Cutting back on certain "hub" airports that handle a lot of connecting flights is a major source of savings the airlines are going after. Delta CEO Richard Anderson has said the new Delta won't slash flights at its half-dozen or so major hubs. Believe the boss at your own risk: When Anderson, the former CEO of Northwest, took the Delta job last summer, he also denied he was seeking a merger with his former employer. Of course, there's always a "change in circumstance" that justifies an about-face.



With soaring fuel prices, both Delta and Northwest are strapped for cash, with cutbacks likely anywhere possible. And overlapping hubs are an easy target. For the new carrier, the most likely cuts would be at Delta's operation in Cincinnati, since many flights connecting there could be handled at Northwest's Detroit or Minneapolis hubs instead. To a lesser extent, Detroit and Minneapolis could take over some of the connections going through Delta's hub in Salt Lake City. Northwest's Memphis hub would also become redundant in the shadow of Delta's huge Atlanta hub.



If United and Continental merge, Continental's connections at Cleveland would probably be slashed dramatically, since United's hub at O'Hare could handle much of that traffic. For connecting passengers, it makes little difference which city they travel through, but people who live in the affected hub cities would have far fewer nonstop flights available.


http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowc ... elers.html

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PostSep 18, 2009#891

I posted this in June and got pilloried for posting "rumor". Too bad it was almost 100% exactly correct...



This was posted over at the CA forum on stltoday. (Take it for it's worth) OUCH



"From the horses mouth:



With rising costs of fuel and American undergoing capacity reductions, the remainder of the American hub in St. Louis is likely to close in October when fall/winter cuts are implemented.



From potentially 228 flights a day in 2006 to what I would guess as 30 in 2010. What a shame.



Chicago will also take a substantial hit as well."



http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=634859

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PostSep 18, 2009#892

Chicago is actually gaining 47 flights a day. I wish it was the other way around.



SirShankalot, you were (unfortunately) largely right. Now, don't do that again!

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PostSep 24, 2009#893

Lambert may soon have Iberia and British Airways flights to Madrid, Spaine and London, UK within 6-10 months according to KMOX. I did find this information on KTVI's website.



http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-lambert-air ... 2008.story

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PostSep 24, 2009#894

:shock:

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PostSep 24, 2009#895

Currently I would think all European travel from St. Louis has to connect in Chicago or Atlanta. So I would love to see this.



Is there a way to get the number of travelers to Europe that originated in St. Louis the in 06, 07, 08.

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PostSep 24, 2009#896

I heard a rumor that Virgin Air is also looking for a new hub in the midwest. Lambert would be a great choice for the expanding airline. :D

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PostSep 25, 2009#897

What business ties exist between St. Louis and Spain to make an Iberia flight viable.



I can see the British Airways flight working if the subsidy is heavy enough.

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PostSep 25, 2009#898

Good point about Iberia, my preference would be for BA for the simple fact that Heathrow would allow significant connections throughout Europe, Middle East, etc.



Is it viable thought to think that a international carrier would see Southwest as a feeder airline to support an international route vis STL? STL would be a low cost entry with some reasonable business locally, maybe a tie to a future Midwest HSR network, and Southwest's domestic traffic.

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PostSep 25, 2009#899

Good point about Iberia, my preference would be for BA for the simple fact that Heathrow would allow significant connections throughout Europe, Middle East, etc.


BA and Iberia are both members of the One World Alliance and code-sharing partners. Through Madrid you can connect to pretty much any major destination in Europe, South-America, Asia, the Middle East or Africa. It's actually an easier airport to connect through than Heathrow. It's the fourth largest airport in Europe with over 50 million passengers a year.

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PostSep 25, 2009#900

Stand corrected, I didn't realize the scope of Iberia's own hub. Kinda of surprised actually.

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