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PostOct 09, 2007#351

JCity wrote:
St. Louis and the state of Missouri does more international business than any other country.


whoops! meant to say in terms of St. Louis' international business relations, we do more with England than any other country.


Yeah, Raleigh-Durham has a London flight with AA. RDU had this flight for over 10 years. I don't know how they can sustain a flight filling up either a B777 or B767 with just GlaxoSmithKline, there has to be other companies in that research triangle that helps keep this LGW flight going. Is it because its subsidized by the cities of Raleigh-Durham? They don't offer connecting flights and don't have an major hubs, and its roughly the same size as Lambert. Anyone know is this is 2-3 times weekly or daily flights to LGW from RDU?



STL has many companies that do business abroad such as Anheuser-Busch, Energizer, Monsanto, Nestle Purina, Boeing, etc. I can see we have least a couple flights weekly to LGW, but not daily with these companies located/have presence here.



The same goes with PDX (Portland). They have a Lufthansa Portland-Frankfurt flight. Who even flies to Portland other than for Nike and no sales tax? How is Lufthansa able to have this flight to PDX? It would be nice to see a Lufthansa A340 or B747 in STL flying non-stop to Germany! Hopefully, the open skies agreement will allow this! :)



Even my friend in Germany says people there don't think of places like Denver or Portland, but they know of St. Louis. The latter two cities have Lufthansa flights...but DEN is probably because of United's hub and connecting service.
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PostOct 09, 2007#352

denver also has a BA flight to london. as well as two flights to germany now on Lufthansa, frankfort and munich. i can see this working in the winter, because i never have heard anyone speaking german on the streets here. and if i'm not mistaken, isn't BA partnered with AA, not united? that is indeed the case, as i just looked at AA's website.



as i read in the paper here a few weeks ago, the way they got the german flights and i suppose the england flight is there is a similar incentive program here as there is at lambert. maybe they went with them because of a bright shinny new airport that might as well be in kansas. either way, they did something right because i can't see 150 or so people, or how ever many people it is takes to fill a 777 everyday, connecting on american at that airport considering they have two gates at dia.
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PostOct 09, 2007#353

Denver is a huge UA hub, which is a Star Alliance Partner with Lufthansa. Would imagine that they get a lot of codeshare feed from that...
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PostOct 09, 2007#354

stlterp wrote:Denver is a huge UA hub, which is a Star Alliance Partner with Lufthansa. Would imagine that they get a lot of codeshare feed from that...


but isn't BA a Oneworld partner with AA? Wouldn't you think an alliance like that would at least give STL a transatlantic flight again? Why doesn't Lambert subsidize one like Air France (Skyteam) or BA, I know thats not good to use subsidies to lure carriers, but at least a 3 times weekly flight to LGW would be nice to have here.



IMO AA just will continue to hose us here in STL.....hopefully people will get tired of connecting at DFW or O'****.



But how is PDX (Portland) able to have Lufthansa fly there? NWA has a Tokyo-Narita flight that flies from PDX. NWA is a Skyteam member, while Lufthansa is a Star Alliance. How is PDX able to fill a A340 or B747 to Germany. NWA's B747 to Narita I know is able to be filled, but not 100%, since NWA has quite an extensive network in the Orient. Once at Narita you can take connecting NWA flights to Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok, and Taipei, but Portland also has a large asian population there....unlike STL.
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PostOct 09, 2007#355

The 787 order from BA may be good news for us and possibly Minneapolis, according to some of the bloggers on one of my other forums. I know they are really competing with AA up at ORD and at JFK on their LHR routes. BA coming to STL should not be ruled out, however I firmly believe it will be 2010 at the earliest. For several reasons a) they won't receive their 787 orders until then, b) It will take at least a year for them to gain route authority, c) they will need to allocate a slot at LHR/LGW for STL d) AA is in negotiations with their unions now, and they are in dire need of a pay increase. Even a 10% pay increase would wipe out their entire profit this year.



I think it is disapointing that if CVG (DL daily 763), CLE (CO seasonal 757), RDU (AA daily 777), DEN (BA daily 777), and MSP (NW daily 343) that we can't sustain service. I believe that if AA wanted to run this route, they could make it profitable and give us a feed from smaller markets in the midwest and some western markets. From what a friend at AA toldme, she believes that corporate doesn't want to have evidence that STL can sustain such a route, when they can have higher yields for O&D up at ORD, making the flight more profitable. In conclusion, I don't think it is a question of if, but when St. Louis will see London service on BA/AA.







Here's a link to several discussions that may help.



http://www.airliners.net/discussions/ge ... #ID3647048
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PostOct 09, 2007#356

Part of the problem of BA is that American AAdvantage members can't earn miles on BA flights to/from the US. You can earn miles within Europe, Europe-Asia or even Canada-UK, just not to/from the US. Believe it has to do with anti-trust regulations. The same goes for redeeming AAdvantage miles on BA - can't do it across the pond.



Don't believe there is the same issue with UA-LH, DL-AF, NW-KLM, or even AA with Aer Lingus, Finair, etc...
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PostOct 10, 2007#357

stlterp wrote:Part of the problem of BA is that American AAdvantage members can't earn miles on BA flights to/from the US. You can earn miles within Europe, Europe-Asia or even Canada-UK, just not to/from the US. Believe it has to do with anti-trust regulations. The same goes for redeeming AAdvantage miles on BA - can't do it across the pond.



Don't believe there is the same issue with UA-LH, DL-AF, NW-KLM, or even AA with Aer Lingus, Finair, etc...


Very true-Skyteam, OneWorld, and Star Alliance can't earn miles on certain routes. However, I don't see this a barrier to St. Louis gaining London service.
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PostOct 10, 2007#358

I miss those days of London to St. Louis direct. It was nice to sometimes have 4 seats to stretch out and sleep in the back of the plane. Other times it was full. Maybe the best hope for future transatlantic flights is with the Ryan Air or other discount flights.
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PostOct 11, 2007#359

STL has no transatlantic service.


STL has several charter transatlantic flights... but only charter flights.



This spring we flew Ryan Air from STL to London direct - non-stop on the way there.
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PostOct 11, 2007#360

How does one book a flight on Ryan Air charters from STL? There's nothing on their website-do they sell through specific travel agencies, or what? And they and the Irish Ryan Air are separate companies, correct?



http://www.flyryan.com/
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PostOct 11, 2007#361

STLMO314 wrote:How does one book a flight on Ryan Air charters from STL? There's nothing on their website-do they sell through specific travel agencies, or what? And they and the Irish Ryan Air are separate companies, correct?



http://www.flyryan.com/


AFAIK, they do vacation charters through Worry Free Vacations, Funjet and Apple Vacations (??). I've occasionally seen the FunJet livery at Lambert, which is operated by Ryan Air. From the looks of the FunJet site, this winter they will serve Cancun, Puerto Vallarta and Montego Bay from STL. Normally you can't book air-only, however if they have extra seats available they will let you, although you have to book within a few days of departure.



It is a separate company from the Irish Ryanair. This airline is technically Ryan International Airlines.
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PostOct 17, 2007#362

Looks like we can't expect any new AA service in the near future:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/business- ... s-for-now/
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PostOct 18, 2007#363

On the Marketplace report on NPR this morning, it was reported that British Airways is considering a collaboration, or possibly even a merger with American Airlines in order to defend their home turf of Heathrow airport against increased competition. Still looking for a link on their website...



EDIT - This is supposed to be an audio link to the radio broadcast, but it's being blocked by my work filters so I can't confirm:







-RBB
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PostOct 23, 2007#364

Has anyone visited the A concourse security line lately? Sometimes I think A is longer than C/D, and B has certainly gotten longer as more people realize that it is a good alternative. Anyway, I was at A Friday morning and I waited 30 minutes from the time I entered the line. I know the TSA is recruiting new security agents at STL, but the airport could do more to make the lines move better.



Moving some of the carriers from A really wouldn't help as C/D and B are already very busy.



Has anyone else had a ridiculously long wait at the A concourse recently?
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PostOct 23, 2007#365

Last year, I caught a flight on United on, like, December 21. To make matters worse, I was RUNNING LATE! I checked my bag and ran down expecting a long line even though the new security lanes had opened.



To my surprise, I was able to breeze right through in less than 2 minutes making it to the end of the A gates in time to find out that... :shock: my flight was DELAYED :!:
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PostOct 23, 2007#366

Believe that TSA is now checking IDs/Boarding Passes for fakes, etc...lines around the country are longer. I feel much safer knowing that no terrorist could possibly have a legit drivers license, and that while TSA fiddles with stuff like this, water & shoes, their screeners still can't detect bomb components the vast majority of the time.
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PostOct 23, 2007#367

I flew out on a Monday morning recently at about 6:30 AM expecting no line at A concourse. Line prob lasted about 30 mins that time, almost missed my flight.
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PostOct 24, 2007#368

I believe TSA has most of its employees show up after 6:00am. So those early morning flights are painful through security. I'll keep my comments to myself when it comes to TSA since they do such a good job of getting me to take off my shoes. Fortunately, I can plan most of my business trips around mid-morning after the morning crush on TSA and Metrolink. This morning at 11:00 am was a breeze at East Terminal.
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PostOct 24, 2007#369

I flew to Minneapolis last week on AA. They are working on the runways at Minneapolis, so only 1 runway was open there. And there was weather. We had to wait 2 hours to board in St. Louis, and another hour on the tarmac in St. Louis before we could leave. Then we had to circle for 1/2 hour over Minneapolis to arrive more than 3 hours late. All the other people who flew in for our meeting from other cities took Northwest and reported no problems getting into Minneapolis on time. So I assume MSP is giving their local hub airline NW priority over AA.



Coming back Thursday evening, we checked in in at the AA desk in Minneapolis. The agent said we would never make our connection in Chicago. He booked us on a Northwest flight non-stop to St. Louis and we arrived with no problems, except for an aborted landing due to wind sheer.



AA is giving St. Louis business away to other airlines. Flying back, I thought someone needs to setup a phantom airline in St. Louis that acts as a phantom hub -- and offers only the non-stop flights from all the airlines in St. Louis and issues its own frequent flyer miles for doing business with them. There must be a business model here somewhere that would attract the frequent travelers.
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PostOct 24, 2007#370

Gary Kreie wrote:
Coming back Thursday evening, we checked in in at the AA desk in Minneapolis. The agent said we would never make our connection in Chicago. He booked us on a Northwest flight non-stop to St. Louis and we arrived with no problems, except for an aborted landing due to wind sheer.



AA is giving St. Louis business away to other airlines. Flying back, I thought someone needs to setup a phantom airline in St. Louis that acts as a phantom hub -- and offers only the non-stop flights from all the airlines in St. Louis and issues its own frequent flyer miles for doing business with them. There must be a business model here somewhere that would attract the frequent travelers.


I hate connecting for a flight at O'*** and AA likes to send us there or DFW. They like loading up a MD-80 or B757 to full capacity and sending us there to connect to our final destination. I think AA is giving away their business in STL, they don't seem care, but when an airline like AirTran comes to town they act like babies.....not liking the new kid in town. Seriously, if AA wants to be serious here they need to give the people flights and destinations they want, not continue to hose us with these connections. Don't force people here to jam into a B757 and fly to O'**** or DFW. I am hoping for an airline that can setup a hub here, and push AA out. Don't know when that will happen. :(
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PostOct 24, 2007#371


I hate connecting for a flight at O'*** and AA likes to send us there or DFW. They like loading up a MD-80 or B757 to full capacity and sending us there to connect to our final destination. I think AA is giving away their business in STL, they don't seem care, but when an airline like AirTran comes to town they act like babies.....not liking the new kid in town. Seriously, if AA wants to be serious here they need to give the people flights and destinations they want, not continue to hose us with these connections. Don't force people here to jam into a B757 and fly to O'**** or DFW. I am hoping for an airline that can setup a hub here, and push AA out. Don't know when that will happen. :(


That's simply the logistics of the beast. St. Louis cannot support enough O/D traffic to offer a multitude of nonstops. Some complain of full 757's, other's complain about full regional jets. They can't win and make everyone happy. AA has been adamant in keeping STL where it is. They are notoriously slow to expand, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
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PostOct 24, 2007#372

"That's simply the logistics of the beast. St. Louis cannot support enough O/D traffic to offer a multitude of nonstops."



Why is this true? How can St. Louis, with a metroplitan area population of 2.8 million people and, despite all the recent mergers, still have a disproportionate share of corporate headquarters (or a large regional headquarters a la AT&T and Boeing) and not be able to support enough O/D traffic for a hub? How can Charlotte, Salt Lake City, Cincinnati and Cleveland, all cities with equal or less population, support a hub and St. Louis can't?
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PostOct 24, 2007#373

steveinphila wrote:"That's simply the logistics of the beast. St. Louis cannot support enough O/D traffic to offer a multitude of nonstops."



Why is this true? How can St. Louis, with a metroplitan area population of 2.8 million people and, despite all the recent mergers, still have a disproportionate share of corporate headquarters (or a large regional headquarters a la AT&T and Boeing) and not be able to support enough O/D traffic for a hub? How can Charlotte, Salt Lake City, Cincinnati and Cleveland, all cities with equal or less population, support a hub and St. Louis can't?


St. Louis is too close to ORD (250 miles away) and DFW (550 miles away) to make it a viable hub.



Charlotte has US Airways, next closest hub being PHL

Salt Lake has Delta with LA being next closet

Cincinnati has Delta with New York or Atlanta

Cleveland has Continental with Houston/Newark as their next closest hubs.





All of those hub cities are far enough in relation to one another to spread the traffic, or if their hubs are fairly close, they're located in very densely populated areas (New York). They're simply doing to other people what AA is doing to St. Louis by making us connect in ORD/DFW, all of these other people have to connect (for the most part) in CLT/SLC, etc.



There are O/D numbers listed on a federal website somewhere. I'll try to dig them up.
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PostOct 24, 2007#374

^ That is only a problem because the Feds are willing to toss away millions spent on improvements at airports around the country (including STL and PIT) when thrown the prospect of expanding ORD at the cost of billions. Given the existing airline infrastructure in the US, spending so much money on O'Hare is foolish when you have excess capacity throughout the rest of the system. The FAA should be enforcing hard flight caps on O'Hare rather than aiding and abetting such reckless spending habits.
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PostOct 24, 2007#375

Billkn wrote:

I hate connecting for a flight at O'*** and AA likes to send us there or DFW. They like loading up a MD-80 or B757 to full capacity and sending us there to connect to our final destination. I think AA is giving away their business in STL, they don't seem care, but when an airline like AirTran comes to town they act like babies.....not liking the new kid in town. Seriously, if AA wants to be serious here they need to give the people flights and destinations they want, not continue to hose us with these connections. Don't force people here to jam into a B757 and fly to O'**** or DFW. I am hoping for an airline that can setup a hub here, and push AA out. Don't know when that will happen. :(


That's simply the logistics of the beast. St. Louis cannot support enough O/D traffic to offer a multitude of nonstops. Some complain of full 757's, other's complain about full regional jets. They can't win and make everyone happy. AA has been adamant in keeping STL where it is. They are notoriously slow to expand, so I wouldn't hold your breath.


I'm not buying it. How is Denver a major hub, then, since it is about the same size city. And Memphis. And Cincinatti? AA was pretty quick to contract, weren't they. They still blame St. Louis for 911.
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