urbanSTL

^^^ Correct, I dont think St. Louis is underserved at all. The only thing we are underserved in are international flights as well as direct flights which slowly by surely, it seems like Southwest is adding them.

Also, as far as consolidation. Detroit would be our biggest competitor. They have a brand new beautiful terminal that actually serves the most international flight DESTINATIONS under one carrier (Delta) Remember, i am talking about a single carrier operating internationally at a single airport. There is no way STL will take that away.

You know what, scratch that above. It would be beneficial for Delta IMO to move that HUB to St. Louis. I will gladly take ALL that international traffic. Yes, it sucks for Detroit, especially with that new terminal, but same thing occurred here with that brand new runaway... and ironically it ranaway all our flights.

Sorry, but this seems awfully thin. Airports and airlines talk constantly about this stuff. Doesn't mean it happens. And what else is Slay supposed to say? Of course they'll "keep talking."
As for the the two major "hurdles" described in the piece? Landing fees? They're quite negotiable. And terminal space. Really? I'd figure Delta could set up shop wherever they wanted if they add a few more flights.
The real hurdle is one simple question: Does Delta think they'll make more money hubbing in St. Louis than in, in Delta's case, Memphis/Cincy . Maybe they would. Maybe they think Detroit, Cincy, Memphis and Atlanta are too close they'd would rather have something further west, to more easily connect flyers to Texas and California. Could be. But please let's not get carried away.

I don't think anyone is getting "carried away".

It has been "rumored" since spring that Delta execs and officials are interested in expanding service to STL. (hint: look back in this thread for months here)It all started with columnist Jerry Berger way back. What we do know (and I say "we" because I am actively involved with this industry and thus the mod. for Transportation):

Delta is interested. (fact) STL Officials and Airport Officials are working with Delta to make it happen. (fact)

Delta is indeed interested in increasing service. Mayor Slay is NOT going to sit down and interview on a story that has no weight or credibility. (fact) Delta Officials spent the first week of June in St. Louis (fact) As for Cincy, the hub has been greatly downsized, unfortunately for them, and STL may gain much of that service (fact).

Delta is now the world's largest airline and is moving into cities strongly (worldwide). St. Louis happens to be on that radar. (fact)

As for Airlines/Airports talking about this type of stuff all the time... NOPE... Not about adding major service and volume.

Whether or not Delta will make STL a "hub" is a question to see - I do know that Delta is interested in more flights and more service to our city. I doubt Delta will make STL a hub overnight - but new flights from STL to new cities or existing cities is probable in the new future. WI think it will be a short matter of time and we will see these increases - connecting traffic may not be Delta's idea here - from what I understand most of Delta's increases will be beneficial for St. Louisans as point to point destinations. With that some connecting flights may happen. We will have to wait and see!

If you are trying to discredit or use phrases like "carried away" ... move on.

A St. Louis hub for Delta?

By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY

That's what St. Louis TV station KMOV reported earlier today, but Delta was quick to downplay that report to Today in the Sky. The St. Louis TV station had reported "Delta would like to bring a hub to St. Louis with up to 80 flights a day."

But that's not the case, according to Delta spokesman Trebor Banstetter. "We don't see any sort of large immediate expansion like this report suggests" for St. Louis, he told me this afternoon.

While Banstetter acknowledged Delta does see some growth opportunities in St. Louis, he said any expansion there by the nation's largest carrier would come incrementally and would target origin-and-destination traffic -- not connecting traffic.

Banstetter noted that Delta already has added some new capacity in St. Louis. Examples of that include a new route to New York LaGuardia and larger planes on Delta's existing flights to its Salt Lake City hub.

Today's KMOV report comes about a little less than a year after American Airlines essentially de-hubbed its St. Louis operation. A move by any of the so-called "legacy carriers" to establish a new hub at St. Louis would probably catch most industry observers by surprise.

Despite the airport's healthy capacity and desirable geographic location, most industry experts believe the city lacks the population and corporate base to support a large connecting hub.

KMOV notes in its report that Memphis is able to support a hub, even though that metro area has about half the population of St. Louis.

KMOV also points out the St. Louis airport's landing fees are much higher than those at Memphis, though the station acknowledges that "cargo flights help to offset the costs in Memphis, [which is] the home of Federal Express."



Posted Jun 10 2010 5:38PM

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post ... a-/96356/1

ChesterfieldKid03 wrote:
While Banstetter acknowledged Delta does see some growth opportunities in St. Louis, he said any expansion there by the nation's largest carrier would come incrementally and would target origin-and-destination traffic -- not connecting traffic.

Any expansion by Delta would be great, but what the Delta spokesman is suggesting is a significantly different thing than 80 new flights and international service and STL essentially taking Cincy's place in Delta's hub network, which was what was being discussed here when I mentioned people getting "carried away."
My apologies, MatGuy, if I think we occasionally get ahead of ourselves around here.

I have to chime in and say that for a moderator, Matguy jumped the gun a bit responding to Stlwriterman's comment. Telling folks to "move on," when their comments are simply attempting to bring a bit of levity does not encourage productive discussion.
Every few comments, someone needs to come in and reign in the "dreaming." If a moderator isn't going to do it, then let Stlwriterman do it.

OK, pure speculation on my part. Lets start with the premise of current Delta hubs over serving a market. Delta doesn't need true domestic hubs between Minneapolis, Detriot, Cincy, Altanta and Memphis. So it is a matter of time before Delta does to Cincy and Memphis what AA did to St. Louis. Second, would Delta entertain a Southwest Model on some of its domestic routing, it further reduces the need for all those regional jets.

If so, it makes sense for Delta to take a hard look at STL for a new route system while dehubbing Cincy and Memphis. I'm not seeing a hub of RJ's serving small markets, but a route model similiar to Southwest giving Delta a nice niche to avoid Atlanta congestion as well as supporting an international flight or two. As someone noted, we are the largest Metro area without an European flght and we definitely offer up a larger Corporate market then either Cincy and Memphis. Who knows maybe Delta has been listening to a few InBev or Montsano execs.

Ideally, love to see Southwest team up or establish alliance network. Once again, some opportunity to support International Flights.

captainjackass wrote:I have to chime in and say that for a moderator, Matguy jumped the gun a bit responding to Stlwriterman's comment. Telling folks to "move on," when their comments are simply attempting to bring a bit of levity does not encourage productive discussion.
Every few comments, someone needs to come in and reign in the "dreaming." If a moderator isn't going to do it, then let Stlwriterman do it.

Agreed. Mods should not be imposing on discussions for any reason other than what's listed in the Forum Rules & Tolerances.

Alex Ihnen wrote:Mods participate in the discussion just like anyone else. Overstepping bounds, deleting, editing or blocking posts and issuing warnings is another thing and clearly should follow the forum rules.

Right, but a mod warning forum members to "move on" if they disagree with the mod's opinion is excessive and should be discouraged. Anyway, back to the topic...

The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday that AMR, the parent company of American Airlines, is once again considering spinning-off its regional carrier American Eagle. While it'd probably be a longshot to try to lure American Eagle away from the Dallas/Fort Worth area, where AMR is headquartered, it'd be good to see MO/STL leaders throw St. Louis's hat in the ring. Obviously it would probably take 747 sized cargo-load of tax incentives to even have a chance, but it'd be great to see an airline HQ back in town.

KMOX gets some answers now:

Delta Hub in St. Louis? Maybe.
KMOX NewsRadio 1120
Monday, June 14, 2010

ST. LOUIS (KMOX) -- Delta Airlines is downplaying reports that it'd like to build a hub at Lambert Field.

After the prospect was floated as a possibility on local television and in USA Today, KMOX News went to a Delta spokesman in Atlanta, Trebor Banstetter, for answers.

He said the company's merger with Northwest pushed Delta into St. Louis in a way it hadn't been before. The deal, however, also increased the combined airline's number of hubs.

"We already have a number of hubs in our system, so our focus when it comes to a city like St. Louis is really to just serve our customers that are there," Banstetter said.

He cited recent moves, like adding flights to the Salt Lake City hub and to LaGuardia in New York City.

Banstetter wouldn't rule out the possibility of a hub being moved to or created in St. Louis, but he called such a reorganization of the company's resources "unlikely" at this time, due to the economy.

He did say to expect more expansions of service in St. Louis by the airline.


---------------


So, again, Delta is not saying that these reports and sources are "wrong" in anyway. Delta's spokesperson even states that Delta wouldn't rule out a hub being created or moved to STL"... that statement alone confirms Delta's interest and/or "in the works". Leave it to KMOX to get to the details!

as always... Stay tuned...

I wonder if it's a "convenient and affordable option" for travel to Kirkwood only because of subsidy? Saying the fare is "under $100" is awfully misleading.

Cape Air’s contract is for two years with an annual subsidy of $1,422,110. The airline will operate three daily flights to and from St. Louis with a nine-seater Cessna 402. The fare is expected to be similar to Air Choice One’s at $49 one way.

Haynes said there would most likely be a daily morning, afternoon and evening round-trip flight.

The DOT decision was based on Cape Air’s track record of increasing ridership in rural communities and ability to meet the $200 per passenger subsidy cost cap.

Alaska Airlines introduces non-stop service STL-SEA starting September 27. Picking up after SWA ends their non-stop to Seattle. Should provide a good link to the Pacific NW as well, with Alaska owning Horizon as a subsidiary.

http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/promo/ ... 00617_SALE||

I fly DL all the time, as my miles are with them and I have to go to the southeast a lot. I really don't understand why they would more or less gut their CVG hub (in favor of NW's old hubs at DTW and MSP), it has turned out) only to turn around and basically reconstitute the Cincinnati hub here. We're only like 500 air miles from both DTW and MSP.

been away from the internet for a while, but I sure am glad to see this thread! my take on all of this?

We need something other than Southwest. Yes, they're cheaper. Yes, they're always bigger, more comfortable planes. But... they don't do codeshares, and they do nothing but point to point. This means no international flights from them, and it means no hub from them. They are totally unlike the traditional airline, and that's why they make a profit. However, if Southwest gains a stronghold in a city, it'd be pretty difficult for another carrier to take the market share back and make a real hub.

Delta is very interesting. I would have expected more from U.S. Airways or Jetblue since neither yet has a midwest hub, but Delta is huge for a reason that no one has pointed out yet. The execs say that Delta's not going to suddenly ramp up service to the old TWA levels, and for good reason: that's not how a hub is built. Remember that TWA didn't take us to Europe until they had "hubbed" us for a few years. If Delta gives us these initial 80 flights, I think they'll be quite pleasantly surprised by the number of people who want to connect through Lambert (even if they're main goal is point to point, there will still be some connections). I say this simply because Lambert is in the smack dab middle of the country and will most often be the shortest trip.

I hope no one doubts our ability to support a hub. TWA did not go under because of us, they went under because of Icahn's Karibu deal. American did not drop us because we weren't profitable, they dropped us because they wanted to streamline their business into fewer hubs. Until now, Lambert has always been a hub for at least SOMEONE, and I feel very confident that we will see a hub again. That's why I don't want to see Concourse D get torn down just yet.

the reason they might "reconstitute the CVG hub here" has already been stated. we're a bigger city. the reason they might want to move DTW and MEM to here? Again, we're bigger than MEM. We also have fewer weather problems than hubs like DTW and ORD, and someone might finally be realizing that the rest of the country would like to continue to live its life even if there's a huge snowstorm in Chicago or Detroit. Finally, they do have a LOT of midwestern hubs, and they're probably pretty eager to consolidate.

And NO, I'm not trying to be overly optimistic. I'm just saying, we've been a hub before, we can be a hub again.

To the post above claiming STL is bigger than Minneapolis:
MSP Metro Area: 3,502,891
STL Metro Area: 2,879,934
STL may be larger than CVG and MEM but thats about it. You might get some extra flights, Delta might even call it a hub but it sure is not going to be at the expense of DTW and MSP.