2,190
Life MemberLife Member
2,190

PostApr 19, 2007#26

God, but I love irony.


In 2005, Dave wrote:LET'S STOP THE hand-wringing over the loss of corporate headquarters.


And that's the last time I can find him writing about the subject.



Now, let me spin ThreeOneFour's post another way. I'm kinda unique around the P-D, 'cause I actually have a list of current Civic Progress members. (We as a newspaper haven't published such a list for almost a decade -- a subject for a rant for another day.)



Current list includes Macy's Midwest, U.S. Bancorp Midwest, Nestle, Bank of America Missouri and Boeing. So despite all the actual corporate-HQ power moving away, those folks kept their seats on Civic Progress. Meanwhile, best I can tell, only Centene and Express Scripts are among the true large corporations that have been added to the list because of their own growth. (There's also a name on there that defies any logic save that he went to the right high school and belongs to the right country clubs.)



So I'll ask the same question I've been asking for most of my adult life: Why does Civic Progress even exist anymore? Further, if smaller businesses are, demonstrably, the true driver of job growth, why does St. Louis have a demarcation between Civic Progress and the Regional Business Council?



I submit that this topic has clear tie-ins to everything from why we don't have a Mississippi River Bridge to why "Wheredya go to high school?" is a symptom of the underachieving nature of the region.

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostApr 19, 2007#27

bonwich wrote:God, but I love irony.

In 2005, Dave wrote:LET'S STOP THE hand-wringing over the loss of corporate headquarters.


Irony indeed. I guess David sees the glass as half-full sometimes after all. :wink:


Now, let me spin ThreeOneFour's post another way. I'm kinda unique around the P-D, 'cause I actually have a list of current Civic Progress members. (We as a newspaper haven't published such a list for almost a decade -- a subject for a rant for another day.)


Seriously- and I mean this as a compliment- I'd like to see you set your food critic hat aside just for a day and write an opinion piece and/or series of articles about Civic Progress. We hear that their relevance has decreased and their reach has diminished. Yet, after several corporate headquarters have left the area, these same players are still around. And they're nowhere to be found on the local media radar- period. Like you, the first question I feel compelled to ask is "Why?".



The impasse over the new Mississippi River Bridge is a prime example of our region's lack of willingness to work together to find common solutions. If members of Civic Progress were less interested in their country clubs and the high school question, perhaps they could provide some real leadership on such an important issue. And, maybe we wouldn't have to shut down Highway 40, because we would've had a workable plan to upgrade the outdated stretches of the road many years ago. And, maybe we'd actually call it Interstate 64, since we wouldn't be so hung up on the past, but now I digress. :wink:

4,489
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
4,489

PostOct 15, 2007#28

It appears that Olin might be falling off the biggest companies list.



Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:34 PM CDT

Olin to sell metals business for $400M

St. Louis Business Journal



Olin Corp. said Monday it signed an agreement to sell its metals business for $400 million in cash to a subsidiary of Global Brass and Copper Holdings Inc., an affiliate of New York City-based KPS Capital Partners LP.



The sale, which is expected to close in the fourth quarter of 2007, is for all of the company's metals operations, including manufacturing facilities in East Alton, Ill.; Cuba, Mo.; Montpelier and Bryan, Ohio; and Waterbury, Conn., as well as its A. J. Oster metals service centers.



The metals business has 2,900 employees and generated $2.1 billion in 2006 revenue and $58 million in profits. That represents approximately half of Olin's employees and two-thirds of its annual revenue.



In 2006, Olin Corp. reported revenue of $3.2 billion and net income of $150 million and had 6,000 employees.



Clayton, Mo.-based Olin Corp. (NYSE: OLN) manufactures metals, chemical products and ammunition products under the Winchester brand.



Source

359
Full MemberFull Member
359

PostApr 21, 2008#29

St. Louis ranks #5 in the nation when it comes to Fortune 500 Companies:



1. New York 43

2. Houston 25

3. Dallas 12

Chicago 12

4. Atlanta 9

5. St. Louis 8

6. Charlotte 7

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostApr 21, 2008#30

Um, yeah. Let's not play this game.

359
Full MemberFull Member
359

PostApr 21, 2008#31

Huh? i thought positive news was good? :)

1,391
Veteran MemberVeteran Member
1,391

PostApr 21, 2008#32

outstanding

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostApr 21, 2008#33

The prevailing "wisdom" around here is that polls are meaningless. :roll:

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostApr 21, 2008#34

Because context matters and this table is taken out context.



Fortune Magazine listed their Fortune 500 list for 2008 on their websitetoday.



The following is the listing of F500 companies located in "St. Louis."



1 Emerson Electric

2 Express Scripts

3 Anheuser-Busch

4 Monsanto

5 Ameren

6 Charter Communications

7 Peabody Energy

8 Graybar Electric



The list Mizzou cited is based on counting up the number of HQ's that list their HQ location as a given city.



As we all know, many of those companies do not have their HQ in St. Louis City, but simply in the Metro area. It is good to see such companies identify themselves with the City even if they are not located within it.



That said, to make rank-ordered list of "Cities" with the greatest number of Fortune 500 HQ's when many of the HQ's are not even within the City limits is foolish and ignorant. Consider the case of Minneapolis:



1 UnitedHealth Group- Minnetonka

2 Target 31- Minneapolis

3 Supervalu- Eden Prairie

4 Best Buy- Richfield

5 Travelers Cos.- St. Paul

6 3M - St. Paul

7 U.S. Bancorp- Minneapolis

8 CHS- Inver Grove Heights

9 Northwest Airlines- Eagan

10 General Mills- Minneapolis

11 Medtronic- Minneapolis

12 Xcel Energy- Minneapolis

13 Land O'Lakes- Arden Hills

14 Ameriprise Financial- Minneapolis

15 C.H. Robinson Worldwide- Eden Prairie

16 Hormel Foods- Austin

17 Thrivent Financial for Lutherans- Minneapolis

18 Mosaic- Plymouth

19 EcolabSt. Paul



All of the companies above, except for Hormel, are located within the Twin Cities metro area. Yet, they do not score well on Mizzou's list because only seven of the above companies list their HQ as "Minneapolis." If two or three companies simply did what companies like Emerson have done in St. Louis, Minneapolis would shoot up to 4th on Mizzou's list.



The list posted by Mizzou is misleading at best and blatantly wrong at worst.


The prevailing "wisdom" around here is that polls are meaningless. Rolling Eyes


And Central, I thought you were big on critical thinking. Guess not.

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostApr 21, 2008#35

JMedwick wrote:And Central, I thought you were big on critical thinking. Guess not.


I am. So I guess you're wrong.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostApr 21, 2008#36

^ Yup. Nothing says critical thinking like readily accepting a list based on false information. :lol:

2,929
Life MemberLife Member
2,929

PostApr 21, 2008#37

JMedwick wrote:series of posts


Serious Questions:

1. Why would Fortune choose to treat StL different than other cities?

2. If a company's website lists their HQ as StL, although the address is in Creve Coeur, does the list immediately become discredited?

3. Do you have another list for comparison?

4. How do we rank for Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area consideration?

5. Aren't we working into a fuss over something that is really a positive? Shouldn't we be hoping for more signs of a unified StL?

2,831
Life MemberLife Member
2,831

PostApr 21, 2008#38

Oh, give it a rest already.



Fortune has been listing the top Fortune 500 Company cities for years.



Whether it be in the "city" limit or proper or in the metro area - I could care less. If the corporation(s) draw most of it's employees from the metropolitan statistical area and serve the area as a whole... then be it.



Overall, factual infomormation, St. Louis has always rated favorably and high with many Fortune 500 giants. Which is great news on the business and financial front.



Period.

2,190
Life MemberLife Member
2,190

PostApr 21, 2008#39

matguy70 wrote:Overall, factual infomormation, St. Louis has always rated favorably and high with many Fortune 500 giants. Which is great news on the business and financial front.



Period.


With all due respect, no. St. Louis has far too long focused its business-development efforts on megaprojects and megacorporations at the expense of the true engine of economic growth, small business. The sheer number of Fortune 500 companies in a given geographic area is a data point -- no more, no less. It's "good" only to the extent that those big companies represent existing jobs; it can be very, very bad if the concentration of civic power lies within the hands of a very small number of businesses who, even aggregated, represent a tiny fraction of the overall business community.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostApr 21, 2008#40

Gone Corporate wrote:
JMedwick wrote:series of posts


Serious Questions:

1. Why would Fortune choose to treat StL different than other cities?

2. If a company's website lists their HQ as StL, although the address is in Creve Coeur, does the list immediately become discredited?

3. Do you have another list for comparison?

4. How do we rank for Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area consideration?

5. Aren't we working into a fuss over something that is really a positive? Shouldn't we be hoping for more signs of a unified StL?


Serious Answers:



1. Fortune is not treating St. Louis differently. In the Minneapolis example I used above, General Mills' HQ is not in Minneapolis, but in a western suburb.



2. If the purpose of the list is to identify the cities with the greatest number of HQ's, then an accurate listing of where the HQ's are located is important. If where the HQ's are located is wrong, then the list tells us nothing.



It would be the same as constructing a list of US cities by population (i.e. listing by only population within the legal entity defined as a city, not the whole metro area), but ranking some cities by solely the number of people within the municipal boundary, but including the population of surrounding municipalities for other cities. With such a haphazard method, such a list would have no value.



3. I have not taken the time to complete a full comparison list.



4. There is no way to do so given just the information on Fortune's website (though it could be done with additional resources).



5. I am not "working into a fuss" over anything. I think there is value to be found in the Fortune listings and rankings. The Fortune list confirms:



A. That St. Louis is an important (if not the most important) economic engine in the State of Missouri;

B. Many publicly held St. Louis companies continue to increase in size;

C. Many smaller public companies like Centene, Ralcorp, and Energizer are growing and may one day join the ranks of the 500.



With such positives to be found in the Fortune rankings, I see no value (and no need) in glad-handing each other over a list based on inaccurate information.



There is defiantly positive and negative information to be gleaned from Fortune's annual rankings, just not a listing of which cities have the most HQ's.

10K
AdministratorAdministrator
10K

PostApr 21, 2008#41

bonwich wrote:With all due respect, no. St. Louis has far too long focused its business-development efforts on megaprojects and megacorporations at the expense of the true engine of economic growth, small business. The sheer number of Fortune 500 companies in a given geographic area is a data point -- no more, no less. It's "good" only to the extent that those big companies represent existing jobs; it can be very, very bad if the concentration of civic power lies within the hands of a very small number of businesses who, even aggregated, represent a tiny fraction of the overall business community.


And the cities that are behind us on the list - Seattle, San Francisco, Charlotte, L.A., Philly, etc. just go to show that the number of Fortune 500s don't mean everything. And from a real estate perspective, it certainly hasn't helped our CBD much.

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostApr 21, 2008#42

JMedwick wrote:^ Yup. Nothing says critical thinking like readily accepting a list based on false information. :lol:


The information is not false.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostApr 21, 2008#43


The information is not false.


In which city is Emerson Electric's HQ located?

284
Full MemberFull Member
284

PostApr 21, 2008#44

One might get a better picture here. They still conflate StL City and its suburbs, but they list every state, and if you know the basics of a metro area you can figure out what's where pretty easily. For instance, throw in its suburbs and Chicago has more like 30 than 12.

There's also a big honkin' Google Map of every Fortune 500 hq in the country.



http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... es/MO.html

1,610
Totally AddictedTotally Addicted
1,610

PostApr 21, 2008#45

Kudos to my hometown, but I thought my new city had just one more Fortune 500 company:



1) Bank of America (#9)

2) Wachovia (#38 )

3) Lowe's (#48 )

4) Nucor Corp (#151)

5) Duke Energy (#204)

6) Sonic Automotive (#298)

7) Family Dollar Stores Inc (#358)

8 ) Goodrich Corp (#375)

9) SPX Corp (#466)



For comparison, only the mega-banks and utility-giant are downtown, the others in edge-city developments, though all but two still inside sprawling city limits. Thus, if technically by city limits, Charlotte has only seven Fortune 500 HQ.

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostApr 21, 2008#46

JMedwick wrote:

The information is not false.


In which city is Emerson Electric's HQ located?


According to Emerson Electric, St. Louis.

2,929
Life MemberLife Member
2,929

PostApr 21, 2008#47

Noting that the list isn't 100% factually inaccurate, in that Emerson Electric is in Jennings as opposed to StL City, I think that StL getting good press and having a reputation for corporate headquarters are good things that we should appreciate. How can we expect to increase the number of Fortune 500 businesses in the City if a contingency of our population proclaims "City, or Death!" to them while calling out Fortune magazine as inaccurate and noncredible after they give us a leg up? This is not realistic or helpfu.



Sure, my parents live in the County, write Saint Louis on their mail, and still get it delivered; does that mean they are hindering the entire region? Of course not. Such actions are actually signs of regional pride and should be recognized as a good thing.



We can continue to complain and work to kick the legs out of all our good things, but I'm tired of the perception of going nowhere or going backwards, especially when good things are going on.



JMedwick, my applause to your diligence, but I question your motives and intent.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostApr 21, 2008#48

Where is 8000 W. Florissant Ave. located?

PostApr 21, 2008#49

Gone Corporate wrote:Noting that the list isn't 100% factually inaccurate, in that Emerson Electric is in Jennings as opposed to StL City, I think that StL getting good press and having a reputation for corporate headquarters are good things that we should appreciate. How can we expect to increase the number of Fortune 500 businesses in the City if a contingency of our population proclaims "City, or Death!" to them while calling out Fortune magazine as inaccurate and non credible after they give us a leg up? This is not realistic or helpful.



Sure, my parents live in the County, write Saint Louis on their mail, and still get it delivered; does that mean they are hindering the entire region? Of course not. Such actions are actually signs of regional pride and should be recognized as a good thing.



We can continue to complain and work to kick the legs out of all our good things, but I'm tired of the perception of going nowhere or going backwards, especially when good things are going on.



JMedwick, my applause to your diligence, but I question your motives and intent.


GC, you are assuming much about my motives and intent. Those assumptions are wrong and are not based on my critiques of the list Mizzou posted.



I am not a "city or death" type. While it would be nice if all these HQ's were downtown, far better for them to be in the region than somewhere else. I don't hate these companies for listing their mailing address as St. Louis, when the building itself might be in Clayton or Jennings or Creve Coeur. In fact, I do see it as a positive sign. I would much rather take the regional approach to analyzing this list, looking at how the whole St. Louis metro stacks up to others rather than trying to narrowly define economic health based on city boundaries at a national level.



The reasoning for my critiques is a concern that when we twist the facts to ensure positive press we both open St. Louis up to further negative press when the truth eventually comes out and diminish its laudable accomplishments. Consider the twisting of downtown's population stats by the Downtown St. Louis Partnership. The resurgence downtown has been great, with many new residents. Yet the DSTLP feels the need to inflate the downtown population growth numbers by including neighborhoods north of Cole in the calculations. When the 2010 Census numbers come out and show a lower number than has been trumpeted in the press, downtown's primary booster organization is simply setting itself up for criticism and negative press. The facts or great, there is no need to embellish them for additional effect.



Finally, here is something to chew on in light of this quote:


I think that StL getting good press and having a reputation for corporate headquarters are good things that we should appreciate.


Do we need false information to gather such good press from the Fortune 500 listing? I would rather St. Louis get (and it can receive) good press regarding the number of regional, national, and international HQs without stretching the truth. Which is more beneficial to the region, stretching the truth to get good press or using the clear facts to get good press?

59
New MemberNew Member
59

PostApr 22, 2008#50

JMedwick wrote:Where is 8000 W. Florissant Ave. located?


In Ferguson. It's right across from the site of what once was Northland Shopping Center.



http://www.fergusoncity.com/index.asp?NID=224

Read more posts (74 remaining)