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Saluki Way

Saluki Way

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PostNov 09, 2007#1

The funds for Saluki Way have now been approved by the SIU Board of Trustees.


Saluki Way funds approved



by les winkeler, the southern



CARBONDALE - Saluki Way took a giant stride from dream to reality Thursday when the Southern Illinois University Board of Trustees authorized a budget of $83 million for the design and construction of a new football stadium, renovations to SIU Arena and relocation of the tennis courts and recreational fields.



The design phase of the project is expected to last about a year. Current plans call for the Salukis' football team to be playing in a new stadium in 2010. SIU Arena renovations are expected to be completed for the 2010-11 basketball season.



"Athletics are very much a part of the fabric of a university, not just for the student-athletes, coaches and athletic department staff, but for supporters on campus, in the community and beyond," said SIU President Glenn Poshard in a university news release. "Our athletic teams have brought significant, positive national exposure to the athletics program and our university as a whole.



"In addition, our teams attract fans from well beyond Carbondale, which gives a boost to the local business community. The new football stadium and improvements to the Arena are long overdue and will go a long way toward revitalizing the east side of campus. I also am confident that in addition to helping recruit quality student-athletes, these facilities will help recruit other students who will be impressed by our commitment to moving the entire university forward."



Continue Reading ...


Here are some pics...



















The Red is what is approved for this phase. The orange are new academic buildings (yet to be approved) and the blue is parking. The gray are existing SIU buildings











Full Photo Gallery



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PostNov 10, 2007#2

Hello, that looks amazing. Right now, the Dawg Pound is looking a little dated. I also remember visiting SIU a few years back and thinking that I would not want to walk up those football bleachers. The new stadium looks amazing.
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PostNov 10, 2007#3

A lot of student opposed it when I was there.
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PostNov 10, 2007#4

Opposed what?
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PostNov 10, 2007#5

Juice13610 wrote:A lot of student opposed it when I was there.


They did? Maybe there's something we don't know.
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PostNov 10, 2007#6

Yes, a lot of students thought there was too much money being spent on sporting facilities while there are several dilapidated ACADEMIC buildings on campus, Faner Hall as one example.
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PostNov 10, 2007#7

There is a lot to it.



First, you notice the red buildings are the first to be built ... the red are all athletic facilities and not academic facilities.



Second, last year they gave their basketball coach a raise to $750,000 a year for many years and there was a good deal of public outcry when other budgets were being cut. And by the way, the President of the University only gets paid like $300,000.



Third, this is from the previous Chancellor who was recently deposed by now Plagerism Poshard.



Fourth, SIU really doesn't have the money for this. Carbondale had to pony up a tax increase to help foot the bill and there was a major increase in student fees (which of course students would be opposed to). SIU justifies it by offering student tickets for free ... but of course most students do not go to the sports events but still have to pay the collective price.



Fifth, no one really goes to the SIU football games anyway. They have made an effort in recent years, but attendance is still abysmal - even though they are annually at the top of the I-AA polls. Why spend $50 million on a football stadium that no one will sit in?



Those are some of the reasons ... maybe Juice has some more as it has been a few years since I was a student there, but those were the grumblings I was hearing.



Anyway, it is happening now. I don't really know how we are going to pay for this and pay a million dollar salary for our basketball coach and pay Plagerism Poshard and pay for the new library addition ... I don't really understand where the money is coming from. I know they are getting a lot from the students. The Legislature really has not been kind lately to SIU and except for this year enrollments had been in a steady decline.



Basically, they are betting the farm on sports. The athletic teams will help our national profile and that will help enrollments and grant dollars and suddenly everything is going to improve. I don't know if it will work, but it is certainly what they are doing.
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PostNov 10, 2007#8

Little Egyptian wrote:I don't know if it will work, but it is certainly what they are doing.


I may have gone to school in Cape Girardeau, but I've always really liked Carbondale and SIU, so I hope it works.
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PostNov 10, 2007#9

Right, not just the fact that athletics are obviously the #1 priority in this project, but student fees will increase rather substantially. Many students will be paying for these additions they will never in their student tenure see.



Much like during my 2 years @ SIU (05-07), Morris library was closed the whole time I was there for improvements that I paid for but will never see.
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PostNov 10, 2007#10

Juice13610 wrote:Right, not just the fact that athletics are obviously the #1 priority in this project, but student fees will increase rather substantially. Many students will be paying for these additions they will never in their student tenure see.



Much like during my 2 years @ SIU (05-07), Morris library was closed the whole time I was there for improvements that I paid for but will never see.


So pretty much like most taxes/fees ever?

If SIU-C were to be placing the money into acadmic buildings, it would still take years to see results. I had to hear the same junk at SIU-E when they were tossing around the idea of going D-1. "But we will have to pay $20 extra dollars per semester!" Guess what, you are already paying 5k+ per semester, 20 more dollars won't change your status. (I know that is absolutely horrible logic for an argument, but seriously, c'mon) Overall it benifits the university where you are attempting to gain a degree. If the university becomes more visible and known for the additions, so too does your degree from said university. It is a two-way street in the long run.
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PostNov 10, 2007#11

And besides the fact, sports raises the visibility of a university tremendously. How many people had ever heard of South Florida before this year? Or Boise State before a few seasons ago?



Academics don't like spending money on athletics cause they don't see the reason big dumb jocks should get anything since they were mean to them in high school. But I bet you admissions inquiries went up to each of those schools recently - something that doesn't happen when a school ends up producing a Nobel Laureate
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PostNov 11, 2007#12

Well, SIU has been consistently in the top 25 for several years now and in each of those years except this one SIU's enrollment has declined (and not by choice). Perhaps in the long term athletics will make the difference, but SIU has not really seen any immediate returns on its recent athletic success.



Granted, I would know little to nothing about Gonzaga, South Florida, Boise State, or Appy State without knowing about their athletic programs, but what does my knowing about them really help each of those schools? I am not donating anytime soon. I am not going to watch a game just because one of those teams are in it. Maybe if I was in high school, I might consider a school that I otherwise would not have, but the hard work of making a university great lies in academics. None of the Big 10 schools got where they are by a good sports run. They got their through outstanding graduate programs, heavy investments in research, etc...



Everyone wants to get rich quick and sports seem to offer a shortcut to glory, but in the end, such glory is fleeting. The way to make your university great is through academics. If this Saluki Way investment winds up strengthening academics, then I am all for it. But that is a long-term, risky proposition with no real guarantee of success. SIU could take that 83 million and invest it in expanding its law school or med school or top ranked aviation program or adding a veterinary program and making a serious effort to make them top tier programs in the country. Becoming a great university is hard work - it takes more than a good ranking in basketball.



I am glad to see the team doing well, but I don't support this investment. They should take the 83 million and build the football stadium and build a new academic building. Then 10 years from now spend another 83 million on a new/upgraded arena and another new academic building. Putting all their eggs in this sports basket is an extremely risky proposition. SIU has always had the status of the second most important state school in Illinois. If this fails, 10 years from now they may be just another directional school.
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PostNov 11, 2007#13

ricke002 wrote:
Juice13610 wrote:Right, not just the fact that athletics are obviously the #1 priority in this project, but student fees will increase rather substantially. Many students will be paying for these additions they will never in their student tenure see.



Much like during my 2 years @ SIU (05-07), Morris library was closed the whole time I was there for improvements that I paid for but will never see.


So pretty much like most taxes/fees ever?

If SIU-C were to be placing the money into acadmic buildings, it would still take years to see results. I had to hear the same junk at SIU-E when they were tossing around the idea of going D-1. "But we will have to pay $20 extra dollars per semester!" Guess what, you are already paying 5k+ per semester, 20 more dollars won't change your status. (I know that is absolutely horrible logic for an argument, but seriously, c'mon) Overall it benifits the university where you are attempting to gain a degree. If the university becomes more visible and known for the additions, so too does your degree from said university. It is a two-way street in the long run.


No. Actually, you are way, way off. "So pretty much like most taxes/fees ever?"



Well, no. If I live in a town for 20 years and pay taxes, chances are, I've driven on the streets that said taxes improved.



And yes, you are right, that is incredilbly stupid logic; to the point where I actually feel dumber having read it. "Another $20?" First off, it was around another $50 per credit hour (in fees and total, not necessarily added to the per credit hour increase).



"Oh, it's just another 2 cent tax on food items in St. Louis, big deal."



Well guess what, Oh Wise One? 2 cents times 100 increases equal a $2 tax.




miguetejada wrote:And besides the fact, sports raises the visibility of a university tremendously. How many people had ever heard of South Florida before this year? Or Boise State before a few seasons ago?


You will never convince me that a team doing well in sports increases enrollment by much more than maybe a few students a year, if that. I can tell you, there is nothing that I care LESS about than my university's sports teams. Matter of fact, of all the people I attended college with that I was friends with, never went to a single athletic event.



"Academics don't like spending money on athletics cause they don't see the reason big dumb jocks should get anything since they were mean to them in school."

Wow.

New uniforms is one thing, $500M in sports venues while Faner Hall (which houses probably 200 classrooms/lecture halls) crumbles. I don't care that we support athletics. Spend $200 apiece on new uniforms, and be sure that we have the proper protective gear for our football team. But $500 million?
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PostNov 11, 2007#14

Juice13610 wrote:


No. Actually, you are way, way off. "So pretty much like most taxes/fees ever?"



Well, no. If I live in a town for 20 years and pay taxes, chances are, I've driven on the streets that said taxes improved.




I'd be willing to guess that if you were a student at SIU-C for the next 20 years, you'd see the results from an increase in student fees there, too. That wasn't my point. If you live in a town for only 4 years, say St. Louis 6 years ago, you would be there for the beginning of a tax/fee increase, say for Metro, but fail to see the finished product, say Cross County Extension.


Juice13610 wrote:
And yes, you are right, that is incredilbly stupid logic; to the point where I actually feel dumber having read it. "Another $20?" First off, it was around another $50 per credit hour (in fees and total, not necessarily added to the per credit hour increase).



"Oh, it's just another 2 cent tax on food items in St. Louis, big deal."



Well guess what, Oh Wise One? 2 cents times 100 increases equal a $2 tax.


Point being, in the grand scheme of things, to me, it's not a large increase per student for what the university is gaining






Juice13610 wrote:


You will never convince me that a team doing well in sports increases enrollment by much more than maybe a few students a year, if that. I can tell you, there is nothing that I care LESS about than my university's sports teams. Matter of fact, of all the people I attended college with that I was friends with, never went to a single athletic event.


As LittleEgyptian mentioned, Gonzaga was not on the national radar 11 years ago. Having visited the Gonzaga campus 3 times since their basketball program rose to the national level, I can vouch for how much the campus as a whole has grown remarkably. New buildings were popping up all over campus, both academic and athletic. I know that many of the buildings were built with the help of both donors and general university funds. The donors aren't there yet for SIU-C, however.



I look at it this way, if a school is able to gain national recognition with one sport, and that sport gets extra funding, later on more donors might come out of the wood work to give money, which frees up university monies for other purposes.
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PostNov 11, 2007#15

You will never convince me that a team doing well in sports increases enrollment by much more than maybe a few students a year, if that. I can tell you, there is nothing that I care LESS about than my university's sports teams. Matter of fact, of all the people I attended college with that I was friends with, never went to a single athletic event.


I never said admissions, it's applications. And the more applications a school receives, the more selective it can become, increasing the quality of the student body for all.



And as far as you go with not caring about sports - that's your perogative. What about the other 20,000 students? And it bugs the Sh*t out of me that people get so high and mighty over sports. If they were building a $20m performing arts centre, would you be just as upset? Doubtful, even though fewer college students attend plays and concerts than athletic events. Why? Because it's popular to be anti-sports, but rag on a mime and you're a bully. Go figure.
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PostNov 11, 2007#16

They should use a fraction of that $$$ to make the area on and around the campus more walkable and comfortable (sidewalks, road diets, reverse the one way traffic sewers, invest in the scarred up downtown), i've never been to a major 4 year university campus so hard to walk around and into/out of (the town in general needs a rethinking in this area) and in general so uncomfortable to be on. the school seems stuck in the mid twentieth century, and probably should invest in something other than sports until it gets up to speed. sorry for the harsh commentary. i was practically run over there doing some research this fall, and was annoyed that i had to drive everywhere.
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PostNov 11, 2007#17

don't think all that money is going to waste... Athletic teams can make a school alot of money...
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PostNov 12, 2007#18

You seem to be missing the most important part of my argument; you have MULTIPLE buildings on campus, best example being Faner Hall, that is FALLING APART. You have old equipment for the technology majors.



Would a lot of people b**** abotu a performing arts center? As long as we are still walking through the maze of Faner (you can walk in many doors on campus where you cannot get to other parts of the building, and have to come back outside to get to the other rooms), then yes, people are going to b****.
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PostNov 12, 2007#19

bpe235 wrote:don't think all that money is going to waste... Athletic teams can make a school alot of money...


True. It's a balancing act. That money can be contributed toward other departments.
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PostNov 12, 2007#20

Juice13610 wrote:You seem to be missing the most important part of my argument; you have MULTIPLE buildings on campus, best example being Faner Hall, that is FALLING APART. You have old equipment for the technology majors.



Would a lot of people b**** abotu a performing arts center? As long as we are still walking through the maze of Faner (you can walk in many doors on campus where you cannot get to other parts of the building, and have to come back outside to get to the other rooms), then yes, people are going to b****.


Clearly, you've never been to Illinois, where Altgeld was designed by MC Escher, and Lincoln Hall is literally falling apart as well - but they're spending a ton on a new basketball/hockey stadium and upgrades to the football field etc.



Don't forget, a lot of this money comes from boosters and rich donating alumni as well - that's why it goes to sports and not academic buildings. I'm not sure how much of this SIU money is from boosters, but I have a feeling that a a fair bit of this "internal" money is code for boster $$$.



Maybe you as an alumn should pony up some cash or get some other anti-sports alums and build a building with your name on it?
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PostNov 12, 2007#21

Anti-sports? I've never been to Illinois...are you referring to Illinois street? I didn't think Altgeld was in that bad of shape, and I never had a course in Lincoln.



This may be hard for you to comprehend, as I can picture your Saturday lunch talk (you slept in past breakfast) with all of your buddies still buzzing from the alcohol from the night before discussing the "big hit" that [random high school football player] made last night against [another high school football player], sitting there masturbating to the latest exciting college matches taking place today, and NFL games going on tomorrow, and how drunk you can get before throwing up or passing out,

but



people in general wouldn't be upset if "some rich alums" were picking up the bill for this crap. That's why people are pissed off, remember? But you are too busy coming up with your clever quips.



I won't give the university a cent. I already gave that "non-profit" university my $12,000 for a 2-year capstone degree that offered a sub standard education where I came out with a Bachelor's degree but nothing more than a base foundation in IT skills. Hey, I could identify a an igneous rock though. :roll:
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PostNov 12, 2007#22

Anti-sports? I've never been to Illinois...are you referring to Illinois street? I didn't think Altgeld was in that bad of shape, and I never had a course in Lincoln.


There is an Altgeld Hall at SIU and U of I. Altgeld was a former governor of Illinois. Lincoln, I can't think of a building at SIU called Lincoln Hall, we have Lincoln Drive, but no Lincoln Hall. Good name for a building though. I think MiguelT was talking about U of I.



I am sure pretty much university could use upgrades or expansions of their academic facilities. There are even some buildings I have been in at Wash U. that could use a little face lift.



The question is balance and that balance has to be determined in light of alumni expectations and motivations to donate. For the most part, alumni are motivated more by sports than by academics. Most of SIU's graduates are probably just like you and me Juice, barely able to pay the rent/mortgage. For most folks like that, sports are their primary remaining connection to the university. So, I understand SIU catering to the expectations of these alumni and potential donors. And, people do donate. I will probably donate in the near future, especially to the specific program I was in.



At some point though, there is a question of mission that must be asked. The mission of SIU, as I see it, is to be the primary educational resource for Southern Illinois (and the kids it generates), to be an economic booster, and to be the secondary public research institution in the state. To serve those missions, SIU has to make decisions. I am just concerned that these subsequent decisions concerning the athletic budgets are too substantial, too fast and inevitably will lead to a decrease in dollars for academic programs. In the end, maybe the risk pays off and SIU see a windfall in applications, becomes more highly selective, attracts better faculty, and better serves its mission. I don't know the answer to that and that is why I am not being paid over $300,000 to be President. But, anyone can see this is a risky proposition for SIU. You can't just be throwing an additional hundred million dollars to one aspect of your university without there being potential negative consequences on other aspects of the university.
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PostNov 12, 2007#23

Juice13610 wrote:Anti-sports? I've never been to Illinois...are you referring to Illinois street? I didn't think Altgeld was in that bad of shape, and I never had a course in Lincoln.



This may be hard for you to comprehend, as I can picture your Saturday lunch talk (you slept in past breakfast) with all of your buddies still buzzing from the alcohol from the night before discussing the "big hit" that [random high school football player] made last night against [another high school football player], sitting there masturbating to the latest exciting college matches taking place today, and NFL games going on tomorrow, and how drunk you can get before throwing up or passing out,

but



people in general wouldn't be upset if "some rich alums" were picking up the bill for this crap. That's why people are pissed off, remember? But you are too busy coming up with your clever quips.



I won't give the university a cent. I already gave that "non-profit" university my $12,000 for a 2-year capstone degree that offered a sub standard education where I came out with a Bachelor's degree but nothing more than a base foundation in IT skills. Hey, I could identify a an igneous rock though. :roll:


What, you never slept in on a saturday? And since when does liking football make one an alcoholic moron? It's clear you've never played, nor given the game a chance. If you had, you'd know it requires more smarts than any other sport out there. Except Chess. Or Scrabble. :lol:



2 year degree? What, University of Phoenix too hard to get into? You do realize you could have transferred to MIT (mom I tried, not Mass Tech)



As far as your insults go, I guess SIU doesn't teach its students to argue and debate points.



Clearly, you never liked college, you were miserable, hated everyone and everything associated with it. That's fine. You can have your pity party. Some people liked college (and still do...if they ever graduate!). SIU's basketball program has significantly increased its national presence, and by providing it the facilities it needs to be successful in the future, it will help the university.



BTW, the funding was said a combination of public and private finances. So a few tax and student dollars goes into it - if it helps turn SIU into a regional destination - is that so awful?
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PostNov 12, 2007#24

Apparently you aren't familiar with the term "capstone." "Capstone" means completing a 4 year degree, with the university accepting credits from a previous institution and providing ease of transferring. So, it's a Bachelor of Science, 4 year degree. BTW, you should feel stupid now, in case you don't yet.



I was right there at all of my high school sporting events, and I even like watching college sports (basketball, football) on TV. But again, and please, take the helmet off for a second and really pay attention here; it's not a matter of whether or not athletics make the school money, or they increase visibility for FUTURE (hey, we already got THESE guys, now let's say ***** them and focus on getting some new recruiters!) students, it's a matter of students paying thousands of dollars to attend school in dilapidated buildings and classrooms that are falling apart, while money is squandered on building a brand new arena that isn't needed.


migueltejada wrote:As far as your insults go, I guess SIU doesn't teach its students to argue and debate points.
(You can't debate with stupid)
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PostNov 12, 2007#25

I think the point has been made that some of us agree with the renovations being made, and some of us are against the renovations. Both sides have argued their point, but there is no need to criticize each other. Neither of you are going to change the other's mind, so be done with it. It's over, it's done, SIU-C is spending money on the project.
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