I received that email too, and I don't remember soliciting them. But it's the only unsolicited email I've actually been glad to receive.
There will be some resistance for sure, just like in KC, ..............but the property owners could make a pretty penny by selling up and/or upgrading their properties along the line.roger wyoming II wrote:..........after all, there has been a lot of outcry in UC as well as on LIndell on the Loop Trolley... and remember the KC and planned Saint Louis Streetcar will be an increased tax upon property owners, so that always comes into play.
Savvy developers will come along and build new projects within the taxed district and all property owners could pass the increased costs of property taxes on to renters and leasees.
The resistance/nimbyism will be vocal, but ultimately the property owners have the last say - if St. Louis goes the KC route. It will be very important for street car backers and planners to include property owners upfront from day one.
I honestly believe if Cincinnati, which has a smaller population than St. Louis, can get it done why not St. Louis.
^ Agree, the number and the various cities getting streetcar lines going is pretty impressive. Can understand Feds backing off Light rail, but their strong investment in streetcars from Portland, to Cincy, to KC to a number of larger metro areas.
This paragraph caught my attention concerning state and capital budget sent to Nixon. Anyone have an idea on what exactly is the $11 million ear marked for. Also, note $8 million ear marked for CORTEX.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... c5e82.html
Also Thursday, the Legislature sent a $220 million capital improvements bill to the governor’s desk. This bill includes $11 million for light rail and $8 million for a business incubator at the Cortex Innovation Community in St. Louis. Both projects would be financed by bonds.
This paragraph caught my attention concerning state and capital budget sent to Nixon. Anyone have an idea on what exactly is the $11 million ear marked for. Also, note $8 million ear marked for CORTEX.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... c5e82.html
Also Thursday, the Legislature sent a $220 million capital improvements bill to the governor’s desk. This bill includes $11 million for light rail and $8 million for a business incubator at the Cortex Innovation Community in St. Louis. Both projects would be financed by bonds.
The 11 million is specifically for a light rail station at CORTEX, and the 8 million is going to the University of Missouri for use at CORTEX.
Did the Feds help with Portland's streetcars? I recall when one fo the Portland people was in town talking about theirs saying they didn't get any Fed funds and that was a good thing because they were cheaper and quicker to build without Fed entanglements.dredger wrote: Can understand Feds backing off Light rail, but their strong investment in streetcars from Portland, to Cincy, to KC to a number of larger metro areas.
Portland did not get federal funding for the original parts of their streetcar system and yes that did make it quicker and easier to build without the need to worry about federal deadline and interference. However, don't forget that St. Louis did the same thing with Cross County MetroLink and I think we all remember how well that went over.quincunx wrote:Did the Feds help with Portland's streetcars? I recall when one fo the Portland people was in town talking about theirs saying they didn't get any Fed funds and that was a good thing because they were cheaper and quicker to build without Fed entanglements.
Portland did get $75M (50%) of federal funding for their eastside streetcar project.
Nothing, it's just a pass thru machinism I believe, just like MoDOT is the middle man for the $11m for the stationGateway City wrote:Wait, what is UMSL building at CORTEX?
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^ UMSL will be giving away $8 million worth of TechShop memberships for students.... actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea!
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This would be good news. The bill just specifies $11 million for a rail station at an incubator, and then $8 million for an incubator in St. Louis. I was hoping that incubator was CORTEX (of which UMSL is a member) and not UMSL's own ITE incubator. Nothing against ITE ... I'd just rather add resources to CORTEX to fuel its growth.Ebsy wrote:The 11 million is specifically for a light rail station at CORTEX, and the 8 million is going to the University of Missouri for use at CORTEX.
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But ITE already is constructed. This capital funding appears to be for something new so don't be surprised to see Cortex. And that is how the P-D reported it. We'll just have to wait for more news.
The line in the budget does specify "St. Louis" as to where the incubator will be. That may or may not mean anything, though. I don't know if that's a strict reference to the city or the region.
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Im very sure that the 11M is earmarked for the new Boyle Ave Metro link Station and sure hope we don't have to wait that long to get a street car running in the heart of the city ...We seem to do everything slow here probably much slower than snails pace
STL Streetcar says it applied for a $1.5M grant
The $1.5 million study will look at the environmental, social, and economic impact of a streetcar.
Ugh! Why do we have to spend $1.5 million to study the environmental impact (good - fewer cars on the road!), social impact (good - better access to housing, retail and jobs!), and economic impact (good - further development of housing, retail and jobs along corridor!) of a streetcar? How about using $1.5 million to just start building the damn thing!!
^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_E ... Policy_Act
No fed funds unless NEPA study is done and a basic NEPA study is $1m+ And 12-18 months
Basically 2020 is best guess on when this will be operational
Most likely case
NEPA 2015-2017
Engineering 2017
Right of way 2018
Construction 2018-2020
Open 2020-2021
No fed funds unless NEPA study is done and a basic NEPA study is $1m+ And 12-18 months
Basically 2020 is best guess on when this will be operational
Most likely case
NEPA 2015-2017
Engineering 2017
Right of way 2018
Construction 2018-2020
Open 2020-2021
^ Seems like the KC streetcar moved way faster than that. That's 8 years away. Does it take 10 years to get a transportation project done in this country? I also thought the feasibility study was already done http://www.downtownstl.org/docs/StLouis ... -Final.pdf ....I thought they are putting in an application for the environmental study. If further feasibility studies must be done, I hope there are recommendations to expand the streetcar into other areas. I also hope Metro eventually takes over these streetcar projects, we don't need 3 different ticketing systems.
Highway project? Normally takes a very long time. You don't hear about it until construction starts but it's usually in the works for years before that. NEPA isn't required for like a resurface but it is for like a 270 redo or new bridge like the new MRB. I mean MRB opened in 2014 and it was planned in 2002.goat314 wrote:^ Seems like the KC streetcar moved way faster than that. That's 8 years away. Does it take 10 years to get a transportation project done in this country?
Engineering can be a bit quicker then a year but right of way is a pain because of people suing ect
It takes the city of stl about a 1000 days from the time a project is funded to start designing it and obligating construction funds
Yet another reason why tearing out all of the streetcar system was folly.
Nice thing having a state department with a pipeline of projects ready for funding. I think this is why the construction/trades/engineering lobby likes highways; it's much more consistent.
Nice thing having a state department with a pipeline of projects ready for funding. I think this is why the construction/trades/engineering lobby likes highways; it's much more consistent.
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I think the first EIS on I-70 expansion in rural Mo was 2001.Knowitall wrote:Highway project? Normally takes a very long time. You don't hear about it until construction starts but it's usually in the works for years before that. NEPA isn't required for like a resurface but it is for like a 270 redo or new bridge like the new MRB. I mean MRB opened in 2014 and it was planned in 2002.goat314 wrote:^ Seems like the KC streetcar moved way faster than that. That's 8 years away. Does it take 10 years to get a transportation project done in this country?
Engineering can be a bit quicker then a year but right of way is a pain because of people suing ect
It takes the city of stl about a 1000 days from the time a project is funded to start designing it and obligating construction funds
^ Wabash, My impression just by the fact that a grant request was submitted that it is not moving along at all. Don't know, but assume nothing is going to happen unless their grant is awarded. The tough part is the possibility of getting picked among a huge number of grant applications is slim when it comes to TIGER grant applications. Then What? Back to square one If they don't get a grant award
I'm dumbfounded how the City and Civic leadership can't find a way to fund a 1 to 1.5 million EIS just as their was a way to fund the feasibility study. Since most thing in St. Louis are still done in the backroom it is tough to say where things are really at. The best I can do is speculate and try to find a bit of news here and there. For all I know, this could be an opportunistic grant application and have it completely wrong in my thought process. Instead, the have some funding set aside but would rather keep it in the bank if they get the grant.
As goat noted, KC seem to move a lot faster and believe their TIGER grant request and award was for actually construction/build out. KC leadership is DOING some things right for urban transportation beyond roads, they secure a substantial TIGER grant previously for greenway/pedestrian/etc. and then follow up with a TIGER grant for the streetcar. So far, St. Louis City/MoDOT secured money for the lid. However, Slay and city needs to up its game if it wants to keep the central corridor momentum going and actually bring in some good job numbers.
I'm dumbfounded how the City and Civic leadership can't find a way to fund a 1 to 1.5 million EIS just as their was a way to fund the feasibility study. Since most thing in St. Louis are still done in the backroom it is tough to say where things are really at. The best I can do is speculate and try to find a bit of news here and there. For all I know, this could be an opportunistic grant application and have it completely wrong in my thought process. Instead, the have some funding set aside but would rather keep it in the bank if they get the grant.
As goat noted, KC seem to move a lot faster and believe their TIGER grant request and award was for actually construction/build out. KC leadership is DOING some things right for urban transportation beyond roads, they secure a substantial TIGER grant previously for greenway/pedestrian/etc. and then follow up with a TIGER grant for the streetcar. So far, St. Louis City/MoDOT secured money for the lid. However, Slay and city needs to up its game if it wants to keep the central corridor momentum going and actually bring in some good job numbers.
Yes, I'm scratching my head why this thing is going to take a full decade to build. KC and Cincinnati (despite major opposition) have taken maybe 5 years or less. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt the KC and Cincinnati streetcar projects were doing EIS in 2004. Both have gotten federal money and have been moving like crazy. You cant blame state support either, KC is in the same asinine state as us and Ohio's political scene isn't too much better from what I've heard. In fact, the KC streetcar has been moving forward at a astronomical rate, with future phases already on the drawing board. I think if Metro seriously got behind any major rail expansion it could move forward.dredger wrote:^ Wabash, My impression just by the fact that a grant request was submitted that it is not moving along at all. Don't know, but assume nothing is going to happen unless their grant is awarded. The tough part is the possibility of getting picked among a huge number of grant applications is slim when it comes to TIGER grant applications. Then What? Back to square one If they don't get a grant award
I'm dumbfounded how the City and Civic leadership can't find a way to fund a 1 to 1.5 million EIS just as their was a way to fund the feasibility study. Since most thing in St. Louis are still done in the backroom it is tough to say where things are really at. The best I can do is speculate and try to find a bit of news here and there. For all I know, this could be an opportunistic grant application and have it completely wrong in my thought process. Instead, the have some funding set aside but would rather keep it in the bank if they get the grant.
As goat noted, KC seem to move a lot faster and believe their TIGER grant request and award was for actually construction/build out. KC leadership is DOING some things right for urban transportation beyond roads, they secure a substantial TIGER grant previously for greenway/pedestrian/etc. and then follow up with a TIGER grant for the streetcar. So far, St. Louis City/MoDOT secured money for the lid. However, Slay and city needs to up its game if it wants to keep the central corridor momentum going and actually bring in some good job numbers.
I also think we will see some push back against the streetcar. Even Alderman Roddy has said this proposal is silly and it would benefit his ward the most. A lot of city leadership from North and South City say we should not go forward with the streetcar because the central corridor is already served by Metrolink. They have a point, but I think the city could benefit from laying out a real vision for rail transit in the city.
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This. What's unfortunate is the city can't settle on what proposal is best for it. If the city can't get on the same page then what hope do they have getting the county on board ( I realize the streetcar proposal didn't require county funds but I can only assume any Metrolink expansion would come from ew gateway) and from there how do they expect to win out over the myriad of other cities proposals that significantly expand access to transit rather than just provide an incremental improvement over the current system. A southside line seems like the obvious next step to me.I also think we will see some push back against the streetcar. Even Alderman Roddy has said this proposal is silly and it would benefit his ward the most. A lot of city leadership from North and South City say we should not go forward with the streetcar because the central corridor is already served by Metrolink. They have a point, but I think the city could benefit from laying out a real vision for rail transit in the city.
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If it's going to be Central Corridor, it should go NW on Olive to Delmar and connect to the Loop Trolley.
However, we could have both a streetcar AND get essentially a "N-S Line" by running one on Jefferson instead. It's gonna be awhile before MetroLink builds a train there. We could kill two birds with one stone this way. Main problem though is that if it's just like six miles of track then it won't cover much of the north nor south side. Maybe it could be like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Cheroke ... 95!1m0!3e0
Have it continue either to Broadway to the south or Gravois to the west. I'd say Broadway because Cherokee is too narrow to run a streetcar along. Up north, it could still loop around Crown Square.
However, we could have both a streetcar AND get essentially a "N-S Line" by running one on Jefferson instead. It's gonna be awhile before MetroLink builds a train there. We could kill two birds with one stone this way. Main problem though is that if it's just like six miles of track then it won't cover much of the north nor south side. Maybe it could be like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Cheroke ... 95!1m0!3e0
Have it continue either to Broadway to the south or Gravois to the west. I'd say Broadway because Cherokee is too narrow to run a streetcar along. Up north, it could still loop around Crown Square.