I have a rather naive inquiry.



I've never experienced a community with so many private and gated streets. What are the rules? If the gate is open, am I allowed to walk down this street or is it strictly off-limits to anyone who doesn't live there? Will someone call the cops on me for trespassing if I'm on the sidewalk, uninvited?



I understand residents probably pay more to live on a private street with the benefits of reduced traffic, et cetera. Is the street itself still public City property, or is it "jointly owned" by the residents of the street?



Also, I gathered that this is a tradition dating back to the Gilded Years and fancy neighborhoods like the long-gone Lucas Place and Vandeventer Place. But isn't the concept kind of out-dated for city-living?



Specifically, I'm talking about the CWE, but I noticed there are gates off Skinker and in U City as well.

You may be looking at two different things: private places and cul-de-sacs.



A private place (street) is actually owned by the residents, governed by a board, and restricted by the terms of an indenture. The residents tax themselves to support projects along the street, general maintenance, street paving, sidewalk construction and repair, trees, lights, and the gates. The City provides formal police and fire service, though most of the private places also contract with security services.



Cul-de-sacs are publicly owned streets on which barriers have been erected to control traffic.



Most of the City's private places are in the CWE.

I don't know the legal ramifications, but most of the private places in the CWE are fine to walk or run though. The only exceptions I've encountered are the really nice ones, Westmoreland and Portland, which are north of the park, between kingshighway and union. They are patrolled by an extremely vigilant rent-a-cop who will threaten to have you arrested if you don't turn around and leave immediately. I don't know how much arresting power he has though. Those houses are great though, I had an occasion last year to visit a boss of mine who lives there in essentially a mansion that he and his family are rehabbing. It's a very cool street.

I didn't know you could be stopped for walking through a private place. I have done it a million times? Maybe I was lucky.



New-to-stl, I believe there is a book on the private places.



Be sure to check out some of the beautiful private places that are not in the CWE, too.

Expat wrote:New-to-stl, I believe there is a book on the private places.

I am not sure if this is another book, or the same one you were referring to...

Westmoreland and Portland Places by Julius K. Hunter



"In Westmoreland and Portland Places Julius K. Hunter traces a century of two St. Louis private streets, focusing on the way of life that produced the elegant houses described in a separate essay by Esley Hamilton, an architectural historian." --New York Times Book Review

Thanks for the info. Seems like it's a "venture at your own risk" thing ... you probably won't be hassled, but you're not really supposed to be there either. Is that a fair statement?



Funny... the only private streets that were alluring enough for me to venture down so far have been Portland & Westmoorland! And I got lots of stares from landscaping crews, so I figured I really wasn't supposed to be there and left quickly. I haven't been brave enough since to explore any others.



The houses are AMAZING there. On the one hand, I can see why people who could afford to live there would want their privacy and security. On the other hand ... if I had a home like that, I'd want to show it off!



Urbanstlouis -- that book looks quite interesting; a good way to see the houses without "intruding" on the private streets. I'll have to see if the library owns a copy.

I have one of those books, and it's a great piece to find out the history on who built the homes, who lives in them now (or that is as of 1988!), etc., as well a just appreciating the beauty of the homes.

I guess some would call them snobs, but they do pay for that exclusiveness. I have never walked down the streets, but I have friends who have, some were not noticed and others were rudely informed they didn't belong there...rather odd for a class of people who pride themselves on good manners. Then again, maybe they feel people should know better than to come and gawk and the rudeness is necessary in order not to have their neighborhood become a tourist attraction. Then again, maybe it wasn't the residents, but hired help who were rude. So, I'd say your statement was a fair one. Hmmm....who is right? What would Miss Manners say???

If you should be brave enough to venture into those forbidden areas, a word of advice: just walk down the streets as if you belong there.

As for wanting to show them off...they do...to one another! But they couldn't care less about showing them off to us po' folks.

The Central West End Association?s 37th Annual House and Garden Tour this weekend features the homes of two private streets off of Euclid Avenue: Lenox Place and Hortense Place.



May 6 & 7, 2006 from 10:00 AM - 4:00 PM

Tickets are $17.50 in advance, $20.00 day of the event.



More information at www.centralwestend.org

On the subject of 'private streets'. I travel down McCausland south everyday from work. Between Manchester, just before Southwest, there is a small street called Magnolia on the left side. It is a very well known cut through street, used by many to avoid the mess at McCausland and Southwest. One day I was going down that street and noticed everyone was getting pulled over by the police. They ticketed me for driving down a 'public' street for, as they called it 'avoiding a stop light, using a cut through' like cutting a corner through a gas station, to avoid a stop light. The police told me that the street is now 'private' and for local residents only. He said 'look at the sign at the top of the street' so I went back up and it said that the street is 'private' local traffic only. It was tiny. I was furious. What did the residents of this street do to get this designation? If they pay for all of the services on the street, it would be justified. Otherwise, they are saying that my tax dollars go to fund a street that I can't use?? I left a harsh message for Alderman Waterhouse. I am sure I was one of many who called him. A few days later, the signs were gone and the street has since been a 'public ' street. I'm sorry Magnolia residents, deal with it!! My street is a 'cut through' street and I just deal with it. I had to waste my time getting the ticket thrown out, which it was. I would like to know if anyone knows the criteria for getting your street 'private' and if the residents have to agree to pay for all services etc.. What does it take, in other words? Guess that streets residents were not willing to pay for it. Who knows.

Roo wrote:I am sure this has been covered in the forum at some point but I couldn't find it. I was wondering if anyone knows how certain streets became private in St. Louis. More specifically, the area between Kingshighway and Union north of Forest Park. Did these neighborhoods actually buy the land from the city in the 1890s?

Don't know for a fact, but I highly doubt the City owned that land before it was developed. I'm assuming that when the land that would become the private places were subdivided and developed, it was part of the deeding process that the streets would be "private"--i.e., maintained by the residents themselves as opposed to the City.

the first in St. Louis was Lucas Place downtown. One house remains on Locust at 14th. Try this:



http://books.google.com/books?id=n68S_w ... 14#PPP1,M1

St. Louis used to be known for it's large number of private streets. They were the "gated communities" of their day.



I wonder how many have since reverted to public status.

imran wrote:Kingsbury and Washington terrace are west of union though. Do you know if the blocked streets between kings highway and union are privately owned or just blocked ( usurped)?

They are privately owned, and quite a hindrance on getting from the DeBal. Place to the CWE.

imran wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2024

Sorry about so many questions but what is the best way to look up if a street is privately owned or City property?
Can move to another thread too.

It will be evident in the GIS system. For example here is what you will see clicking on Union vs. clicking on Kingsbury.

Union Blvd.

Kingsbury Pl.

You can look up addresses on the city website here: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address ... /index.cfm