With the opening of the new I-70 ramp to Tucker/12th street, it's time to let loose the urbanist whiners. Or perhaps, time to organize a pro-urban action group?

If you've traveled the new Tucker from Washington to Cass and the approach to the new bridge, you can't help but notice all the prime real estate opening up for new development.

Can hardly imagine all the users lined up for the prime corners: QuikTrip, Taco Bell, Walgreens, Shell Oil, maybe a little strip center with parking in front. Lots of auto oriented business trying to capture all that commute traffic.

The standard corporate variety of these proposals will drive urban design/form based code advocates nuts, and the protests will follow.

Rather than reacting to a bunch of unwelcome development proposals, what's the potential to organize around some clear goals for the area, so the community can embrace new development rather than fight it?

We need a form-based code for that stretch like yesterday

Maybe so, but who's doing anything about it?

Developers will press forward.

Yeah my fear is this will resemble a stretch of Elysian Fields Ave. in New Orleans that goes from the historic Marigny neighborhood to I-10.

There's a truck stop, fast food and a few other auto centric businesses that took advantage of the access to the interstate.

It's so jarring after going through such a dense intact historic nabe to suddenly feel like you are in Kingdom City!

The purpose of this thread is to provide a windshield to the future rather than a rearview mirror for what might have been. It gets so tiresome to read the constant complaining about how people don't like the plans for new developments.

So here we have a wide open area ripe for new development. Please don't sit around doing nothing and then complain when plans are revealed! If folks are interested in what happens in this area, now is the time to address the future.

Participate!

You're kidding, right? Market rate towers?

Why should he be kidding? The residential market is here and growing. It might not be there to build towers just yet, but if we're patient and develop that land slowly instead of putting something there just to put something there, it's entirely realistic to talk about adding some mid-rises and a couple bigger towers.

Now, that doesn't mean we should wait entirely. Some businesses ought to be able to set up shop there too, but yes, let's hold them to a form code. I'm all for participation in this. I'm not entirely sure what we do to organize. Organizing to the point of impact is one of the hardest things to figure out in St. Louis. Or maybe that's anywhere.

On the tower front, downtown is struggling to keep its towers filled, or attract high rise residential development, where Metrolink is already located. So towers on Cass Avenue is a stretch.

On the form based code front, I am not aware of anything in place for this area. The only thing really in the works is McKee's Northside TIF, correct? How far that gets into the pre-determination of permitted uses is maybe an open question. But that process is now underway, so the details are coming.

As far as organizing, I find it very odd really that there is so much expertise put out there on urban design ideas, but the notion of community organizing to influence public policy seems so elusive.

One without the other is sort of like having sex without a partner.

^^ Thanks for posting those photos, arch city. It helps to show exactly why we need "aspirational" development for this new bridge (gateway, if you will) to downtown St. Louis. If this stretch ends up being filled with low-slung, closed-off office buildings or fast food/gas stations, then any merits/growth which should be derived from the new bridge access is lost.

The area viewed immediately after crossing I-70 should should be tagged for smart, growth-oriented development. My personal preference would be a collection of 5-10 story office buildings (creative, technical, service-oriented...whatever; just build 'em and fill 'em) with some similarly-massed residential (save those high-rises for the Bottle District!) interspersed throughout and around. In this way, visitors across the Mounds Bridge (yeah, I said it...) are greeted with a visually attractive and active entrance into St. Louis and its downtown.

A few weeks ago, I was mucking around with a Google map trying to determine what some good elevations might be for a revived and connected Near North St. Louis. It's a work in progress. Feel free to use this as the basis for your own map:



[Sidenote: These aerials really show off some of St. Louis' development mistakes of the 80s and 90s...in particular as it relates to Columbus Square (and, similarly, the area around Chouteau/Gravois to the south). I understand these buildings were constructed then out of a need for affordable housing in a diminishing downtown core, but to have such a drastic drop in elevation and design from downtown to hear is irksome, to say the least. No, I'm not saying to tear the damn thing down and displace the residents. But i do hope that the City grows and a better transition can be considered as it related to the connection of downtown and Near/Old North.

roger wyoming II wrote: this bodes well.... St. Chuckers are liking it!

“It’s beautiful. The way that it’s set up is beautiful,” said Rams season ticket holder Dizzy Johnson of St. Charles County. “We came in. We took one turn and we were right off 10th, which is right here. .."

not so sure that particular comment bodes well. sounds to me like he's just happy that he can get in and out faster.

So what happens if a Waffle House, a Motel 6, a Wendy's, or a Dobbs put up "Coming Soon" signs?

McKee? What if those businesses are successful? What if there is no community involvement at this early stage before projects are announced? McKee is a businessman. He needs to make a profit. His goals are to rebuild the area and make money. I think I can hear sounds of complainers clearing their throats....

The pad sites along the new 12th street are not very large. They wouldn't support very large buildings, unless multi-story.

I wonder how long things wait for multi-store before auto oriented commercial?

Doubtful anyone would build a spec office building.

Those pad sites look ready now. With the new bridge opening in a few months, I guarantee commercial real estate brokers/acquisition agents are negotiating now for what they see as the prime spots.

Gas stations, convenience stores, other highway oriented commercial uses are sure to have an interest. It may be unavoidable. They are also likely to pay the highest price per square foot for the ground compared to someone building an office building or light manufacturing. Housing will likely go more to the interior of "Northside".

The real issue is, where is the "conversation"? What is the official protocol for development in the area? Does the TIF spell out eligible/ineligible uses for these "gateway" lots? I haven't heard anything that specific yet.

Has anyone else?