warwickland wrote:first of all - i wasnt aware that wing haven was a new urbanism development. i thought it was a subdivision with a quasi-neo traditional commercial area not seamlessly integrated with residential?

When we visited Winghaven, I wasn't very impressed with the commercial center being all of one-block. I can see some conveient shops, such as the laundry and ice cream shop doing well. But there is nothing to really drive people to go out of their way to go this little one block area. Although there are sidewalks and a very nice walking area around a lake, imo Winghaven is still a very car centric subdivision.



Also, I was under the impression that the market closed due to the developers that owned the building raising the rent to the point where it was no longer economically feasible for them to stay open.



I agree with you that very few builders across the country want to do more than tip their toes into TND's.

Hiya Digital





I agree - Winghaven is NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, a full-blown New Urban development.



I get SO steamed when I mention that I live in New Town, and people say "Oh, that's sort of like Winghaven, right?"



.... NO!



Winghaven is a sprawled-out mass of homes, interconnected with more roads. I don't see it as being pedestrian-friendly, and the couple of blocks worth of commercial really don't work. The housing is too far away from the buildings to make them feasible, or the route to the business is so car-centric, it makes it a pain to try and visit.





Anyway, back to the article... There are many successful New Urban developments throughout the country, so I am surprised that a builder would want to modify that system, unless they really did not understand New Urbanism in the first place.



As warwickland called them, the 'hybrids' are lacking in convenience and community.



Perhaps one of the reasons that the 'hybrids' are attractive to a builder is because a true New Urban Development will require a lot more funding and maintenance (events, publicity, planning, etc) than most builders have patience or money for. Most builders (no offence meant) just want to build the houses, sell the houses, take their money and move on to the next development.

Hi back at ya, Dana!

DanaReale wrote:
Winghaven is a sprawled-out mass of homes, interconnected with more roads. I don't see it as being pedestrian-friendly, and the couple of blocks worth of commercial really don't work. The housing is too far away from the buildings to make them feasible, or the route to the business is so car-centric, it makes it a pain to try and visit.

The article mentioned that to even get to this one block commercial section of Winghaven, you have to go out of your way to find it. The way it was designed, looks like if they had carried out a few more blocks in each direction, there would be a destination and maybe enough stores to promote activity in the area. But one block is an experiment that works but doesn't work well, in my opinion anyway.

DanaReale wrote:
As warwickland called them, the 'hybrids' are lacking in convenience and community.



Perhaps one of the reasons that the 'hybrids' are attractive to a builder is because a true New Urban Development will require a lot more funding and maintenance (events, publicity, planning, etc) than most builders have patience or money for. Most builders (no offence meant) just want to build the houses, sell the houses, take their money and move on to the next development.

Much the same way as the Charlestowne development promotes itself as new urbanism and old town charm, but is just another subdivision. Albeit, it will be connected to New Town with 3 roads, which will definitely help New Town's commercial aspirations. And all of the developers in Charlestowne promote the heck out of New Town's facilities.

They're riding on our tailwinds! But it will help New Town in the long-run. It just aggravates me that they are touting themselves as New Urban living, but it's really just because of their close proximity to New Town that they can say that.



*sigh*



Oh well!

Odd, in the article it says that merchants liked the "New Urbanism theme", although the title states New Urbanism. Nowhere else is New Urban mentioned.



I wonder what they really meant, since they didn't specifically state examples of how "New Urbanism" is risky, just that Winghaven is seeing some rocky times.



I think they need some better comparison writers

DanaReale wrote:Odd, in the article it says that merchants liked the "New Urbanism theme", although the title states New Urbanism. Nowhere else is New Urban mentioned.



I wonder what they really meant, since they didn't specifically state examples of how "New Urbanism" is risky, just that Winghaven is seeing some rocky times.



I think they need some better comparison writers

I think many people confuse "New Urbanism" with a certain style. Hence the word "theme". Of course, new urbanism has little to do with architectural style and has everything to do with building a place - i.e. narrow streets, maximum setbacks, mixed uses, pedestrian sheds, neighborhood centers, etc. The architectural codes are optional.

Pedestrian-oriented site planning is definitely the most crucial element of New Urbanism. Unfortunately, because of its wide use from Seaside to New Town, neo-traditional architecture has become the movement's most visible trait to the casual observer.



But reporters should know better or seek out the truth, rather than spread common misperception. And if the hard content of your article differs from your chosen title, you're spinning, not reporting.

I have been in Winghaven quite a bit and it is clear they whimped out on the whole New Urbanism idea. It is nothing like New Town. The little Winghaven downtown is on walking accessible to a few homes and not to the greater community. That was probably their biggest mistake - not connecting the homes with retail. The old meat market is being replaced by a new business called 'The Marketplace.' What I find so interesting is the it is actually The Marketplace by FastLane the convenience/gas station company. So much for the Mom and Pop store. Also, I hear home prices in Winghaven are hurting as well. People are having a hard time selling their homes above what they paid for it.



I totally agree with previous posts that said this is not New Urbanism. Instead it was just a failed, half-hearted attempt at New Urbanism. It is simply a suburbia with a couple stores in the middle. In the interest of full disclosure, I do enjoy eating at Seamus McDaniels on occasion!