urbanSTL

Another Monday, another massive energy firm leaving OKC. https://kfor.com/news/local/expand-ener ... o-houston/

For all of STL's foibles, I am glad our economy is diverse and not tied to fossil fuel extraction

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:For all of STL's foibles, I am glad our economy is diverse and not tied to fossil fuel extraction

Our economy is healthcare/education based. Not really diverse, just more stable and government funded.

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We will also be making the new generation bomber for decades to come. Boeing alone will ultimately add 15,000+ new jobs and than the suppliers will start having a presence here

dbInSouthCity wrote:We will also be making the new generation bomber for decades to come. Boeing alone will ultimately add 15,000+ new jobs and than the suppliers will start having a presence here

*Government funded

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Yes, it’s illegal for non gov actors to own and operate bombers

Well, we have several major financial firms; Edward Jones, Stifel & yes, WF Advisors (for now). We also have WWT, Centene & several other F1000 companies. We have several major (national) construction companies here. I could go on with the presence of companies not HQ'd here; AB, Purina, Mastercard, so on, so on...The STL region is very diverse, well beyond healthcare, education & government funded industries. Yes, we have a lot of healthcare & education jobs, but much more than that. 

DogtownBnR wrote:Well, we have several major financial firms; Edward Jones, Stifel & yes, WF Advisors (for now). We also have WWT, Centene & several other F1000 companies. We have several major (national) construction companies here. I could go on with the presence of companies not HQ'd here; AB, Purina, Mastercard, so on, so on...The STL region is very diverse, well beyond healthcare, education & government funded industries. Yes, we have a lot of healthcare & education jobs, but much more than that. 

Everywhere has these types of companies. St. Louis isn't special. Where STL is special is defense, education, and healthcare.

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That’s just not true. St. Louis has an outsized presence of Fortune 1000 HQs (and equivalent private companies) compared to other cities and the only one even related to health care is Centene.

StlAlex wrote: ↑

4:46 PM - Feb 10

DogtownBnR wrote:Well, we have several major financial firms; Edward Jones, Stifel & yes, WF Advisors (for now). We also have WWT, Centene & several other F1000 companies. We have several major (national) construction companies here. I could go on with the presence of companies not HQ'd here; AB, Purina, Mastercard, so on, so on...The STL region is very diverse, well beyond healthcare, education & government funded industries. Yes, we have a lot of healthcare & education jobs, but much more than that. 

Everywhere has these types of companies. St. Louis isn't special. Where STL is special is defense, education, and healthcare.

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Cities like OKC do not. I've spent a ton of time there. STL punches above it's weight. Where we have fallen is with major manufacturing, specifically auto plants; Chrysler, Ford, even Corvette back in the day. (And yes, we have GM still) Lots of lost opportunity. It has been said the Chrysler plant cost the region 80K jobs, plant & related jobs. Losing major HQ has hurt the region (the list is long) & a major airline hub. We do not seem to get ahead. We gain jobs, then lose jobs. However, compare STL to a KC. They are growing, yet, we have so much more going for us with regards to the corporate side of things.  

DogtownBnR wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

4:46 PM - Feb 10

DogtownBnR wrote:Well, we have several major financial firms; Edward Jones, Stifel & yes, WF Advisors (for now). We also have WWT, Centene & several other F1000 companies. We have several major (national) construction companies here. I could go on with the presence of companies not HQ'd here; AB, Purina, Mastercard, so on, so on...The STL region is very diverse, well beyond healthcare, education & government funded industries. Yes, we have a lot of healthcare & education jobs, but much more than that. 

Everywhere has these types of companies. St. Louis isn't special. Where STL is special is defense, education, and healthcare.

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Cities like OKC do not. I've spent a ton of time there. STL punches above it's weight. Where we have fallen is with major manufacturing, specifically auto plants; Chrysler, Ford, even Corvette back in the day. (And yes, we have GM still) Lots of lost opportunity. It has been said the Chrysler plant cost the region 80K jobs, plant & related jobs. Losing major HQ has hurt the region (the list is long) & a major airline hub. We do not seem to get ahead. We gain jobs, then lose jobs. However, compare STL to a KC. They are growing, yet, we have so much more going for us with regards to the corporate side of things.  

Cities like OKC have 1.5 million fewer people than cities like St. Louis lol

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This is the least hysterical analysis I’ve read:

https://kfor.com/news/local/experts-ene ... pressures/

StlAlex wrote: ↑

5:31 PM - Feb 10

DogtownBnR wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

4:46 PM - Feb 10

Everywhere has these types of companies. St. Louis isn't special. Where STL is special is defense, education, and healthcare.

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Cities like OKC do not. I've spent a ton of time there. STL punches above it's weight. Where we have fallen is with major manufacturing, specifically auto plants; Chrysler, Ford, even Corvette back in the day. (And yes, we have GM still) Lots of lost opportunity. It has been said the Chrysler plant cost the region 80K jobs, plant & related jobs. Losing major HQ has hurt the region (the list is long) & a major airline hub. We do not seem to get ahead. We gain jobs, then lose jobs. However, compare STL to a KC. They are growing, yet, we have so much more going for us with regards to the corporate side of things.  

Cities like OKC have 1.5 million fewer people than cities like St. Louis lol

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Yep, we are bigger, but they are growing. We are not. State Capital city, large AF base in close proximity, oil & gas industry, good governance, etc. They've got things going for them. Wouldn't be out of the realm to think they'll be right there with us in the coming decades if growth patterns stay similar to now. 

DogtownBnR wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

5:31 PM - Feb 10

DogtownBnR wrote: Cities like OKC do not. I've spent a ton of time there. STL punches above it's weight. Where we have fallen is with major manufacturing, specifically auto plants; Chrysler, Ford, even Corvette back in the day. (And yes, we have GM still) Lots of lost opportunity. It has been said the Chrysler plant cost the region 80K jobs, plant & related jobs. Losing major HQ has hurt the region (the list is long) & a major airline hub. We do not seem to get ahead. We gain jobs, then lose jobs. However, compare STL to a KC. They are growing, yet, we have so much more going for us with regards to the corporate side of things.  

Cities like OKC have 1.5 million fewer people than cities like St. Louis lol

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Yep, we are bigger, but they are growing. We are not. State Capital city, large AF base in close proximity, oil & gas industry, good governance, etc. They've got things going for them. Wouldn't be out of the realm to think they'll be right there with us in the coming decades if growth patterns stay similar to now. 

And if OKC is a similar size to STL decades down the line, they probably will have the aforementioned companies/industries that STL has.

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Similar sized metros (+/- 500k) and their total number of Fortune 1000 + F1000 equivalent private companies from Forbes list:

San Diego: 3.3 million, 13 HQs
Tampa: 3.2 million, 6 HQs
Denver: 3 million, 27 HQs
Baltimore: 2.8 million, 8 HQs
St. Louis: 2.8 million, 23 HQs
Orlando: 2.7 million, 4 HQs
Charlotte: 2.7 million, 19 HQs
San Antonio: 2.6 million, 8 HQs
Portland: 2.5 million, 6 HQs
Sacramento: 2.4 million, 1 HQ
Pittsburgh: 2.4 million, 19 HQs
Austin: 2.3 million, 5 HQs
Vegas: 2.3 million, 7 HQs
Cincinnati: 2.3 million, 9 HQs

City/County has held the entire region hostage for over 100 years comparing ourselves to cities that are growing isn’t fun when we’re constantly stagnant or losing it’s time for us to change the narrative if we want to compare ourselves to growing cities & not the same ole same ole every year & decade….. it’s time for us to be up there with the Austin’s Charlotte’s Nashville’s Minneapolis’s Denver’s Portland’s like we’re suppose to be. We may punch above our weight when it comes to amenities the same sterile skyline high crime rate among every little negative image that hampers St.Louis isn’t convincing anyone to settle roots here…..


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Along with their new NBA arena now under constriction, Oklahoma City is now planning an open air stadium (by Populous) downtown South of Bricktown for soccer and possibly a UFL team.  They don't say how many it seats, but it kind of looks like Louisville's beautiful small stadium where their UFL team plays that seats around 14K for football.

OKC is building with money from MAPS4.  MAPS 1, 2, 3 and 4 were one cent sales tax proposals renewed by a public vote every 5 years.  MAPS has transformed that city of 700K people.  They are a city that still does big things and sees their greatest days in the future.  They will be our competition soon if they aren't already..   

-- Unless St. Louis can figure out how to merge city and county funding to apply metro resources similarly to address metro-wide projects.  Like assigning policing to city/county crime on a per crime basis, not per resident basis.  Or to build or re-build structures used and paid for metro-wide such as stadia, downtown business revival, bridges, parks, Chouteau Lake downtown, light rail, etc.   OKC is a single city and hence has a central authority that can tax far out into high income / low crime suburbs in ways we cannot easily.

OKC wisely used that authority to convince the cizens to pass MAPS1 to rebuild downtown years ago, and the result was an NBA team.  After MAPS1 success, the public gained confidence that the people in charge of the city could manage big things.  And that convinced the public to pass all the later 5-year MAPS proposals.  We have had success metro-wide with Great Rivers Greenway, MSD, Port Authority, etc.  We need to find a way to merge authority to replicate and apply those success stores to policing, airports, business development, tourism, historic restoration, innovation districts, and education.  

It also lost its 2 biggest employers to Texas in February

isn't OKC growing higher than the national average? top 15 MSAs in growth for 2025? Despite the biz HQ losses, they've been doing something right. 

Devon and Expand Energy were not the two biggest employers, not even close. 

The state government of Oklahoma, Tinker Air Force Base, and a variety of health care institutions are far and away the biggest employers. 

Losing the two referenced firms hurts the city because they are public companies that pay high salaries. But it's untrue to represent that they employ the most people. Energy as a whole is little more than a rounding error in the employment base. 

Being truthful also acknowledges that energy is outsized in importance relative to its actual job numbers, for a variety of reasons. For sure.  

This new stadium is primarily designed for soccer. MLS or equivalent. It's being built on old industrial land south of downtown. But I have always thought the UFL is a good fit for the city. Football is practically a religion down there, but they will never have NFL due to the presence of OU. 

OKC has been pissing me off lately because the bands I want to see keep going there but somehow skipping STL

OKC, Indianapolis, Columbus, and Nashville are examples of what a city can do when it's unified. St. Louis could do some really big and awesome projects if we unified. A N-S Metrolink would have been a rather easy project to complete if St. Louis City was another municipality in the county. A 8 mile line that went from Natural Bridge and Kingshighway to Jefferson and Chippewa could have gotten a federal match no problem as a 1.3 million city. A solo city of 300k is much harder to justify.

goat314 wrote:OKC, Indianapolis, Columbus, and Nashville are examples of what a city can do when it's unified. St. Louis could do some really big and awesome projects if we unified. A N-S Metrolink would have been a rather easy project to complete if St. Louis City was another municipality in the county. A 8 mile line that went from Natural Bridge and Kingshighway to Jefferson and Chippewa could have gotten a federal match no problem as a 1.3 million city. A solo city of 300k is much harder to justify.

The problem with this thought is assuming the county would be any more forward thinking than it currently is.

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StlAlex wrote: ↑

12:30 AM - 14 days ago

goat314 wrote:OKC, Indianapolis, Columbus, and Nashville are examples of what a city can do when it's unified. St. Louis could do some really big and awesome projects if we unified. A N-S Metrolink would have been a rather easy project to complete if St. Louis City was another municipality in the county. A 8 mile line that went from Natural Bridge and Kingshighway to Jefferson and Chippewa could have gotten a federal match no problem as a 1.3 million city. A solo city of 300k is much harder to justify.

The problem with this thought is assuming the county would be any more forward thinking than it currently is.

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And it assumes that all the municipalities would be fine with dissolving and becoming one mega city or the county not being as broke as it currently is.