Part of me wonders if Bi-State is intentionally cutting stops they know the surrounding neighborhoods could build via a small taxing district after the line is open. Pretty terrible way to trim cost… but I guess.
What a joke, this has got to be one of the worst bait-and-switches I've seen Metro do in a while. St. Louis City residents did not vote for a project like this in 2017. So optimistically, a North-South line with few stops will be built in 2030 and some more stops will be added by 2040 maybe?
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Is this what research is actually telling them -- to cut stations in south city and the central corridor?
I find it hard to believe that quality research would tell them that.
Maybe we should re-name this thread "MetroLink Green Line" or something similar?
I find it hard to believe that quality research would tell them that.
Maybe we should re-name this thread "MetroLink Green Line" or something similar?
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All government money aka tax money is just a slush fund to be mostly shared amongst those in charge and the people connected to those in charge. If a pothole gets filled occasionally then great.
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Purchased my house in McKinley Heights because of the easy access to the Russell Station. This is incredibly disappointing. My walk to Jefferson and Park is almost 15 minutes, or over 20 minutes if I don't want to walk under the 44/Jefferson clusterf***. This will highly affect how often I utilize this service.
Love to see the line now completely ignoring the only section of downtown west/midtown alley that is actually developing. Sure, perhaps MLK/Jefferson will develop someday but it's currently an urban dead zone. Just a terrible intersection. Move it down to Wash Ave, or at least Delmar.
How much time is this really even saving by cutting out these stops? It's not even that long of a line so it can't be more than six or seven extra minutes from one end to the other.
This is just disrespectful.
Love to see the line now completely ignoring the only section of downtown west/midtown alley that is actually developing. Sure, perhaps MLK/Jefferson will develop someday but it's currently an urban dead zone. Just a terrible intersection. Move it down to Wash Ave, or at least Delmar.
How much time is this really even saving by cutting out these stops? It's not even that long of a line so it can't be more than six or seven extra minutes from one end to the other.
This is just disrespectful.
I don't even think this saves that much money, how much did it cost to build the Cortext Metrolink Station? Something like $10-15 million and I imagine that involved more work realigning the tracks and building high platforms than building new low platform stations. So something on the order of $50 million, I'd guess.
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The Russell/Jefferson stop might be on hold because the potential spot (which BTW is very convenient to several schools) could be held up by the owner of the old gas station on the corner. I will say no more because anything else I say is just gonna be totally f***ing beyond brutal.
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I don’t know that you can make the case that this is worth spending $1.1B on as it’s currently presented. Ridership numbers will be brutal.
What are we demanding? Stops every other block? What would make people happy?
I'm disappointed that certain stops were eliminated, but overall happy the project is moving forward. With that said, I'm very surprised how pessimistic some people are in regards to this project. With some even saying that it's a waste of money and funds should he spent elsewhere, which is confusing to me considering that capital transit funds can only be spent on these types of projects. It's not like we can take federal mass transit money and spend it on a whatever the naysayers think it should be spent on. My biggest issue with this project is the total lack of corporation with the county on a larger regional line that would stretch from NoCo to SoCo. I also believe it's fair to blame the Slay, Stenger, and Krewson administrations for their lack of progress on N-S. This should have been built years ago when we could get more bang for our buck.
I think if you read the above comments you may find your answer.dweebe wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2024What are we demanding? Stops every other block? What would make people happy?
So they'll be building a new station for the E-W running train where they cross?
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Optimal spacing for dense areas is light rail stops spaced at between 1/4 and 1/2 mile apart. so 1300 and 2600 ft between stops.dweebe wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2024What are we demanding? Stops every other block? What would make people happy?
Between Grand and St. Louis Ave is 4200ft
Between Market and MLK is 2600ft
Between Park and Gravois is 4800ft
Between Gravois and Cherokee is 4300ft
Market and MLK is within the optimal but Just barely and that's the core downtown part of the line. I agree that the original stops need to be restored. If you HAD to make a cut, I'd rather see them lose the Grand stop and the 1/2 mile length of track along Nat Bridge. There is decent Bus service on Natural bridge that can connect to Grand until they opt for a line extension on Nat Bridge.
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As for the stations. Isn't the design plan not taking to account the possible cost-saving elements related to the rail yard? Since maybe the stations return after the redesign.
Goat314 nails it as far as my two cents. City low floor no fair streetcar could sufficiently service the city intending or wanting to have a dense walkable north south corridor development while BRT overlay would provide some regional connectivity. Keep Light to Rail future phase utilizing the UP corridor to serve South City/County as well as extend Cross County to I55.goat314 wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2024Cutting Olive makes absolutely no sense at all, but I imagine that the final station locations haven't been completely decided yet. What I would like to know is if this gets denied at the federal level, what would be the alternative? Are we looking at streetcar or BRT at that point? I wouldn't necessarily be dismissive of a streetcar with a BRT overlay.addxb2 wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2024Wow. They cut four stops, that's huge.
Arsenal, Olive, Russel, Parnell & Natural Bridge
That's unbelievable.
South City and Downtown are (were) going to carry this line's ridership and they just made it a lot harder for those people to use.
However, streetcar development for N-S corridor is history simply put and honestly if it is going to be a light rail corridor with future phases connecting North County, CIty and South County it gets to a point that you need to make the hard decision on how many stations you truly want, Or another way to look at it, why spend more money on a heavier light rail transit system if a large number of stops is going to degrade its ability to serve as a regional system.
I really just don't think Bi-State did a bunch of planning and consideration and chose to cut these stops because they'd inhibit future Metrolink expansion like Dredger stated.
This line has been comprehensively studied since 2008 multiple times and there were always Metrolink stops at Russell, Arsenal and Salisbury/Natural Bridge/Parnell. I think that this is just a cheap cost-cutting move, and it's ridiculous that they would make these arbitrary changes without any opportunity for public comment. And there were public comment periods for all those other studies! Extremely disrespectful of the public, but what else is new with regards to Bi-State/Metro.
This line has been comprehensively studied since 2008 multiple times and there were always Metrolink stops at Russell, Arsenal and Salisbury/Natural Bridge/Parnell. I think that this is just a cheap cost-cutting move, and it's ridiculous that they would make these arbitrary changes without any opportunity for public comment. And there were public comment periods for all those other studies! Extremely disrespectful of the public, but what else is new with regards to Bi-State/Metro.
I apologize if I missed this but where do you switch from the N/S line to the E/W lines? Will there be a blue stop at Ewing yard added?
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Trackless trams with dedicated lanes, please
What is the reason for the station cuts, cost cutting? I was surprised they cut Russell/Jefferson.
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If Bi-State insists on consolidating to a single DT West stop, just split the baby and put the stop at Olive.
The southside changes are stupid. It’s the Southside that will determine whether this project succeeds.
The Northside portion of this line has always been silly. A northside line should run up Kingshighway to Riverview and turn around at the Halls Ferry Circle.
The southside changes are stupid. It’s the Southside that will determine whether this project succeeds.
The Northside portion of this line has always been silly. A northside line should run up Kingshighway to Riverview and turn around at the Halls Ferry Circle.
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Yeah, the Scott Ave/Ewing yard will be the transfer station.tztag wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2024I apologize if I missed this but where do you switch from the N/S line to the E/W lines? Will there be a blue stop at Ewing yard added?
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Thank you. If you have to remove stops like that you are taking a mediocre business care and making it a poor one. Just flip this to BRT and use the savings for better frequency and stops serviced. I lived in SF for 15 years straight and used the muni and bus system extensively. The newer busses are nice enough that the bus stigma is essentially gone at this point. The only reason to lay tracks in streets is if you have huge ridership or some other mitigating factor, like the rail only tunnels that Muni can access in SF. Otherwise, with a corridor as wide as Jefferson, BRT would work beautifully.