urbanSTL

Those renderings are friggin' incredible. If they could ever be pulled off is another topic all together. You mentioned that these renderings are somewhat dated; do you know how old?



Rich by Lindenwood Park.

Wow!

Those are a couple years old now either 2003 or 2004.

b&m, I think a little older than that. For one, the 5th ward boundaries used for these plans were those boundaries prior to the most recent post-2000 Census redistricting, which took effect in 2002. Also, I interned for the City off and on again from 1998 to 2001. So I want to say the 5th ward plan is at least five years old now.

^I stand corrected



The plan was adopted March 6, 2002



http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/planning/cnp/

Ok, so the plan's 4 years old (by its official adoption).



But now, does it bother anyone else that a four-year old plan would be the only on-line link to our City's "planning department" section on "neighborhood planning"? Granted, their our other links off of PDA's website to the South Grand Parking Study and Midtown Plan, but no links to the Downtown Plan, or any other neighborhood-oriented planning efforts. I'm sure PDA staff had been busy in more recent years with the city-wide Strategic Land Use Plan, but why not share more of what's in planning for our City's numerous neighborhoods?

Wow! This is great stuff.

The second rendering, the crown candy area, shows a car coming out of the 14th street mall. This has been discussed before, and it NEEDS to happen.

You're exactly right. Frankly, I'm amazed that it hasn't happened yet.

It can happen if the residents pressure their alderman, April Ford Griffin. There are federal funds available for road and/or streetscape projects that the City uses quite a bit. By using them the City could pay as little as 20% of the project. It is a competitive process based on need and current conditions, but I can't see how opening up the mall would not help Old North St. Louis.

Heck, give us a few jackhammers and I'm sure the posters on this board would be happy to do the work!

Wanted to give everyone a link to some NEW CONECT photos (scroll down) that we posted. These buildings are really coming along. The photos don't do them any justice.



-nate

ONSL

Thanks, Nate! I love the fact that so much care is being taken to renovate buildings that in most other neighborhoods would have been torn down. Very exciting!

DeBaliviere wrote:BTW, will ONSL end up with historic guidelines for renovations and infill like Lafayette and Soulard have?

At this point, I think that local district designation would be met with fierce opposition from longtime residents who are either not interested in or not able to afford historic renovation. At the moment, ONSL is focused on getting more new construction and on resolving the 14th Street Mall problem.

Bastiat wrote:

ecoabsence wrote:

DeBaliviere wrote:BTW, will ONSL end up with historic guidelines for renovations and infill like Lafayette and Soulard have?

At this point, I think that local district designation would be met with fierce opposition from longtime residents who are either not interested in or not able to afford historic renovation. At the moment, ONSL is focused on getting more new construction and on resolving the 14th Street Mall problem.

I think the 14th street mall being restored to a real street would be the best news that I've ever heard on this board. If that area was redeveloped it would be a great boost for the area. It also would benefit from the awesome view of the Arch that one gets as you walk down the street.

If the Mall were renovated where would the patrons come from? (This is not a sarcastic question by the way.) I'm curious what people's perceptions are. Assuming that restaraunts, microbreweries, coffee houses, art galleries and other artsy ventures opened up where would people travel from? Downtown? The east side? North County? Would there have to be recognizably named restaurants or chefs to bring people in? What about entertainment? National acts vs. local acts?



The population in ONSL is pretty sparse right now and St. Louisans don't like to travel great distances (6-7 miles seems to be a great distance for many). Would students be willing to drive in for a beer at a bar when others may be much closer?

stellar wrote:If the Mall were renovated where would the patrons come from? (This is not a sarcastic question by the way.) I'm curious what people's perceptions are. Assuming that restaraunts, microbreweries, coffee houses, art galleries and other artsy ventures opened up where would people travel from? Downtown? The east side? North County? Would there have to be recognizably named restaurants or chefs to bring people in? What about entertainment? National acts vs. local acts?



The population in ONSL is pretty sparse right now and St. Louisans don't like to travel great distances (6-7 miles seems to be a great distance for many). Would students be willing to drive in for a beer at a bar when others may be much closer?

I'm sure the same question was asked of Joe Edwards when he had the crazy idea of renovating the loop. The answer: People will come from everywhere.

I think Crown Candy is today's Blueberry Hill and will spur the redevelopment of that entire area. In the short term people from downtown, soulard, lafayette square, and the central west end will likely frequent that area.

SoulardD wrote:

stellar wrote:If the Mall were renovated where would the patrons come from? (This is not a sarcastic question by the way.) I'm curious what people's perceptions are. Assuming that restaraunts, microbreweries, coffee houses, art galleries and other artsy ventures opened up where would people travel from? Downtown? The east side? North County? Would there have to be recognizably named restaurants or chefs to bring people in? What about entertainment? National acts vs. local acts?



The population in ONSL is pretty sparse right now and St. Louisans don't like to travel great distances (6-7 miles seems to be a great distance for many). Would students be willing to drive in for a beer at a bar when others may be much closer?

I'm sure the same question was asked of Joe Edwards when he had the crazy idea of renovating the loop. The answer: People will come from everywhere.

I think Crown Candy is today's Blueberry Hill and will spur the redevelopment of that entire area. In the short term people from downtown, soulard, lafayette square, and the central west end will likely frequent that area.

I hope you are right. The major difference is that the Loop could not be more centrally located literally on the line seperating the city and the county. It's walking distance from Wash U. You've got affluent populations in the CWE and nearby Clayton. Blueberry Hill itself holds hundreds of people and Crown Candy holds less than 40 fully packed.



I just think commercial activity in ONSL has got a lot to overcome. I think that many factors will have to be taken into account when creating a plan. Marketing will need to be key. It will need to become a destination and not rely on foot traffic. Hopefully we'll all soon be able to see this section of the city flourish. There seem to be a lot of good people in place in the neighborhood already.

Yeah, that's true. But the Loop had a lot of help by being right next to Washington University.

Several good points recently. But consider that ONSL has proximity to downtown and the interstate that originally killed the neighborhood. It's five minutes from Crown Candy to downtown. Downtown continues to add population and as prices rise, people may finally start to look north. Remember that there was virtually nothing on Washington until the streetscape was finished, although some may argue that the streetscape made development very difficult because the street was closed for so long.



Beautifying 14th street and opening up the mall to cars again would have the same effect IMO that the streetscape on Washington did. Businesses may not locate there at first, but as more residents move into the area, it would be more attractive for a pub owner or small business to locate there. I think the success of Old North hinges on downtown moving north of Cole with such projects as the Bottle District and the renovations the Neighborhood Gardens area as well as the potential North Broadway loft district. A new MetroLink line on N. Florissant wouldn't hurt either.