I think we should go a step further and toll the new I-64. Those who live over an hour away and need quick access to the city shoulod pay a higher portion of the cost.
I say we also toll the Blanchett Bridge. Maybe we can toll that one 3 dollars, since it actually hurts the city.
When I look at this whole issue over tolls, I can't help but think of 1876: the year the City split from St. Louis County because the wealthy City wanted to keep all its money to itself, instead of thinking of the interests of the region as a whole.
Now Missouri seems to want to do the same thing to Illinois. Well, let's hope history doesn't repeat itself.
Now Missouri seems to want to do the same thing to Illinois. Well, let's hope history doesn't repeat itself.
MistaC01 wrote:I think we should go a step further and toll the new I-64. Those who live over an hour away and need quick access to the city shoulod pay a higher portion of the cost.
Brilliant!! I couldn't agree more . . .
Tolling on the new bridge is unfair to Illinois commuters vs. Missouri commuters. Plus, it it worth $2 to not sit in traffic on the PSB? I don't know.
Well tolling is often unfair. The oldest spans across the east river in new York, such as the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, are not tolled, while the newer bridges between Manhattan and Queens and Manhattan and the Bronx, are tolled. people love to complain about how those Brooklynites get it so good.
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But MoDOT isn't applying tolls to all of its new bridges, just this particular one. By the same principle of grandfathering older free bridges and tolling new ones, recent new spans like the 370 Discovery and Page extension bridges should have been tolled. And by the same logic, people should be willing to pay a toll on Page and 370 to avoid congestion on 40 and 70. However, these bridges go from one Missouri place to another, and therein lies MoDOT's hypocritical new found love for tolling bridges, or make that this one particular bridge, that just so happens to benefit Illinois.
good letter to the editor in the Post today on just this topic...
Toll won't compensate for lack of planning
The article "Bridge may be funded with toll" (Feb. 1) didn't surprise me. It described the newest solution to the quagmire caused by lack of planning and the request for funding from the Missouri Department of Transportation. The failure to have adequate transportation over the Mississippi River in St. Louis demonstrates the small-town mentality of MoDOT leadership.
In the past 20 years, MoDOT has built four spans across the Missouri River so the folks in St. Charles County can get to work in the surrounding area; none has a toll. Proposing a toll for a new bridge across the Mississippi River means MoDOT is protecting its dollars so it can do projects elsewhere in Missouri. What MoDOT is forgetting is now much money Illinois residents pay in taxes in Missouri. Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich is not afraid of earmarking money for this gigantic expense.
The Wall Street investment banking firm that did the study for the new bridge undoubtedly has employees who drive across toll bridges and tunnels to Manhattan each day. A $4 toll is not exorbitant in New York, but it would be here.
This solution is another example of a low-tax state such as Missouri that is to unable to provide the necessary services to its taxpayers. Let's hope the Stifel Nicolas study that is under way will provide a better solution.
Amy Hilgemann | St. Louis
Toll won't compensate for lack of planning
The article "Bridge may be funded with toll" (Feb. 1) didn't surprise me. It described the newest solution to the quagmire caused by lack of planning and the request for funding from the Missouri Department of Transportation. The failure to have adequate transportation over the Mississippi River in St. Louis demonstrates the small-town mentality of MoDOT leadership.
In the past 20 years, MoDOT has built four spans across the Missouri River so the folks in St. Charles County can get to work in the surrounding area; none has a toll. Proposing a toll for a new bridge across the Mississippi River means MoDOT is protecting its dollars so it can do projects elsewhere in Missouri. What MoDOT is forgetting is now much money Illinois residents pay in taxes in Missouri. Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich is not afraid of earmarking money for this gigantic expense.
The Wall Street investment banking firm that did the study for the new bridge undoubtedly has employees who drive across toll bridges and tunnels to Manhattan each day. A $4 toll is not exorbitant in New York, but it would be here.
This solution is another example of a low-tax state such as Missouri that is to unable to provide the necessary services to its taxpayers. Let's hope the Stifel Nicolas study that is under way will provide a better solution.
Amy Hilgemann | St. Louis
Yes, it is. Thanks for posting.stl555 wrote:good letter to the editor in the Post today on just this topic...
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gosh after going through all of the posts in this subject i have to say it has the most quotes of all the other subjects. 
Sigh... All I can say is if I were emperor for the day, a big chunck of my day would be in the MODOT office kicking some a$$. 
Slay, Illinois legislators discuss disputed bridge project
By Philip Ewing
POST-DISPATCH SPRINGFIELD BUREAU
02/23/2006
SPRINGFIELD, ILL.
In his first visit to Illinois' state capitol, St. Louis Mayor Francis G. Slay assured legislators that the bitter bistate conflict over proposed tolls will not scuttle the Mississippi River bridge project.
"I can tell you we're going to work real hard to find a way to build that bridge," Slay told a group of Illinois legislators. "If we work together, we can get it done."
The much-anticipated $910 million project has been stalled, in part, because Missouri officials want the bridge to be partly funded with a $2 toll. Illinois officials have balked, saying Illinois drivers would pay most of that bill.
The mayor would not say that he opposed a toll but conceded that the issue had essentially stopped negotiations.
"There was a stalemate. It wasn't going anywhere," Slay said. He said that is the reason he called for a new study to examine other ways of funding the bridge.
For their part, Illinois' legislators reminded Slay they continue to oppose a toll. Not only would all Illinois taxpayers contribute some money to the bridge, they said, Metro East commuters in particular would pay it most often.
"It would look like Illinois was paying twice," said Senate Minority Leader Frank Watson, R-Greenville, who hosted the meeting in his office. "We would be paying Missouri's share."
U.S. Rep. Jerry Costello, D-Ill., cautioned last week that the longer both sides delay funding the project, the closer it comes to missing out on matching federal funds. He also called a $2 toll "unacceptable" in a letter sent to Slay and St. Clair County Board Chairman Mark Kern.
Slay was in Springfield at Watson's invitation to discuss regional economic development in the St. Louis region.
Watson said it was important to look at economic development in the Metro East area as a regional issue that includes St. Louis. "We want to do what's best for downtown St. Louis," Watson said.
"That river, even though it may seem a million miles wide, is only a barrier in our minds, " said state Rep. Tom Holbrook, D-Belleville.
Slay agreed. "The eastern side of the St. Louis region is extremely important to us," he said.
Slay said that he was surprised to discover Springfield is 15 minutes closer to St. Louis than Jefferson City.
The mayor and the Metro East delegation in Springfield have cooperated on brownfield improvements, trail-building programs in the Metro East area and economic development in general.
Slay called his trip to Springfield "productive" and said he intended to return again to meet with legislators. And the universal support for the bridge would eventually trump the disagreements over funding, he said.
"Everybody's on board," Slay said. "It's just a disagreement on how to get it built. If we look at what the possibilities are and get more facts in front us, I know we can find a way that it's going to work for everybody."
By Philip Ewing
POST-DISPATCH SPRINGFIELD BUREAU
02/23/2006
SPRINGFIELD, ILL.
In his first visit to Illinois' state capitol, St. Louis Mayor Francis G. Slay assured legislators that the bitter bistate conflict over proposed tolls will not scuttle the Mississippi River bridge project.
"I can tell you we're going to work real hard to find a way to build that bridge," Slay told a group of Illinois legislators. "If we work together, we can get it done."
The much-anticipated $910 million project has been stalled, in part, because Missouri officials want the bridge to be partly funded with a $2 toll. Illinois officials have balked, saying Illinois drivers would pay most of that bill.
The mayor would not say that he opposed a toll but conceded that the issue had essentially stopped negotiations.
"There was a stalemate. It wasn't going anywhere," Slay said. He said that is the reason he called for a new study to examine other ways of funding the bridge.
For their part, Illinois' legislators reminded Slay they continue to oppose a toll. Not only would all Illinois taxpayers contribute some money to the bridge, they said, Metro East commuters in particular would pay it most often.
"It would look like Illinois was paying twice," said Senate Minority Leader Frank Watson, R-Greenville, who hosted the meeting in his office. "We would be paying Missouri's share."
U.S. Rep. Jerry Costello, D-Ill., cautioned last week that the longer both sides delay funding the project, the closer it comes to missing out on matching federal funds. He also called a $2 toll "unacceptable" in a letter sent to Slay and St. Clair County Board Chairman Mark Kern.
Slay was in Springfield at Watson's invitation to discuss regional economic development in the St. Louis region.
Watson said it was important to look at economic development in the Metro East area as a regional issue that includes St. Louis. "We want to do what's best for downtown St. Louis," Watson said.
"That river, even though it may seem a million miles wide, is only a barrier in our minds, " said state Rep. Tom Holbrook, D-Belleville.
Slay agreed. "The eastern side of the St. Louis region is extremely important to us," he said.
Slay said that he was surprised to discover Springfield is 15 minutes closer to St. Louis than Jefferson City.
The mayor and the Metro East delegation in Springfield have cooperated on brownfield improvements, trail-building programs in the Metro East area and economic development in general.
Slay called his trip to Springfield "productive" and said he intended to return again to meet with legislators. And the universal support for the bridge would eventually trump the disagreements over funding, he said.
"Everybody's on board," Slay said. "It's just a disagreement on how to get it built. If we look at what the possibilities are and get more facts in front us, I know we can find a way that it's going to work for everybody."
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matguy70 wrote:
Slay said that he was surprised to discover Springfield is 15 minutes closer to St. Louis than Jefferson City.
...yet they are world's apart
I really don't think Slay's presence will make a huuuuge difference. Not, because I don't think he's an important, or intelligent guy, but because St Louis City hasn't been the problem in the Mississippi River Bridge proposals. The state of Missouri and MODOT have been causing most of the problems. My impressions, and I'm sure many other Metro Easter's impressions, have been that St Louis City has been supporting this bridge from the get-go. St Louis City is often excluded from your average Missourian's opinion anyway. I would be more influenced by the presence of a state official or MODOT official.
Congrats, however, to Slay's care, and interest, in the state of Illinois. Actually, I'm quite happy that St Louisans have begun to view Illinois with greater and more intellectual interest. Now, it's up to the rest of the state to go along with it. Divisional, state-only interests, only hurt metro areas, and state governments. St Louis has begun to notice this first.
Congrats, however, to Slay's care, and interest, in the state of Illinois. Actually, I'm quite happy that St Louisans have begun to view Illinois with greater and more intellectual interest. Now, it's up to the rest of the state to go along with it. Divisional, state-only interests, only hurt metro areas, and state governments. St Louis has begun to notice this first.
This situation continues to piss me off. Build the damn bridge already, toll the Missouri River bridges!The people trying to prevent the bridge from being built are the same idiots who were against the HUGE airport that was proposed in Waterloo.. These idiots in charge only care about their consituents in St. Charles County, etc. Is it possible to cut St. Louis City/ County out of Missouri and grab on to Illinois?
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JCity wrote:The people trying to prevent the bridge from being built are the same idiots who
...support greater density in the city, preservation of historic buildings, increased funding and routes for mass transit, better living-wage or higher job opportunities in the city, more cultural innovation, etc.
The point is that a lot of the opposition to the bridge comes from within the city, especially among the ranks of urbanists.
we can promote density and mass transit expansion.
we can have success with those.
BUT we will STILL and ALWAYS have auto traffic and more of it REGARDLESS every year in this country. Period.
So we must maintain our infrastructure to support all.
we can have success with those.
BUT we will STILL and ALWAYS have auto traffic and more of it REGARDLESS every year in this country. Period.
So we must maintain our infrastructure to support all.
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I can honestly say that this is one issue facing the city that I really have no opinion on. On the one hand, I see the need for a new bridge, and I do think it can spur some development on the Near North Side. On the other hand, I think there is some great urban fabric there that I would hate to see disrupted by an auto-inspired infrastructure project.
I'm definately with Jive on this one. I have no formal opinion either.
I support the design, but I think that it could be designed better on its entry into Missouri.
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matguy70 wrote:So we must maintain our infrastructure to support all.
Sure, we should maintain it -- but there is no need to expand it.
We are stuck with automobiles for now, but we should not enable trends that have devastated urban areas in the past.
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But the bridges to St. Charles County have been greatly expanded. And thus, it seems as if the City has no choice but to keep up in auto access. And expanding its bridges is actually something the City hasn't seen since the 1960s (PSB in '67), when more lanes then crossed into the City from Illinois.
I would definitely consider myself an urbanist, but lets just face the facts. There is a certain segment of our society that will NEVER live in the city- "Chesterfields". While I wish everyone was still close to the city and everyone used the streetcar to get around, it's not going to happen (at least anytime soon). Enabling easy travel to the east spurs growth (ok some sprawl, which will possibly come from St. Louis County) in return, RE-CENTERING Downtown in the REGION. Right now, people argue that 270 & 40 is the center of the region. Downtown should be the center. I really doubt that anyone missed the "flight wave" who's in the city now that would consider sprawling eastward due to the bridge. In terms of pure infrastructure, 3 interstates cross the Poplar. Only ONE other bridge in the US has the same distinction.