Northsider - MoDOT gathers more public input on Natural Bridge safety plan

• A road “diet” – a reduction in number of lanes or the road width – between Euclid and Parnell/Salisbury
• Roundabouts at Goodfellow, Vandeventer and the Salisbury and Parnell intersection 
• Mid-block crosswalks with rapid flashing beacons in several areas along the corridor
• Medians at various locations between Euclid and the Salisbury/Parnell intersection 
• Yellow reflective back plates around signals 
• Higher-visibility crosswalk striping 

https://metrostl.com/2020/01/27/modot-g ... fety-plan/

Sounds pretty good to me.

quincunx wrote: ↑

Jan 28, 2020

Northsider - MoDOT gathers more public input on Natural Bridge safety plan

• A road “diet” – a reduction in number of lanes or the road width – between Euclid and Parnell/Salisbury
• Roundabouts at Goodfellow, Vandeventer and the Salisbury and Parnell intersection 
• Mid-block crosswalks with rapid flashing beacons in several areas along the corridor
• Medians at various locations between Euclid and the Salisbury/Parnell intersection 
• Yellow reflective back plates around signals 
• Higher-visibility crosswalk striping 

https://metrostl.com/2020/01/27/modot-g ... fety-plan/
Sounds pretty good to me.

Agreed! Can't wait for Umar Lee to start going on about how terrible this is for St. Louis. 

"St. Louis police pulled over Alderman John Collins-Muhammad for speeding down Natural Bridge Avenue Tuesday on the same day he was quoted in a News 4 story about the traffic dangers and speeding on that very road."  

...not to mention driving without a license and failure to show proof of insurance:

https://www.kmov.com/news/investigation ... 85SQUPsu_Y

Congratulations on your accomplishments with MoDot!
Re:   Safer Streets for Kirkwood safety Enhancements on phase 2 Manchester road in Kirkwood word doc 
Letter to MoDot 
Thanks Ryan for your time replying.
I am confused. Putting aside the multi use path which East West Gateway provides a funding mechanism for this exact suggestion. The other elements suggested evolved around the basic STEP program. Your plan failed to incorporate the STEP program.  

Those are safety enhancements which should be addressed in an open transparent process. Avoiding these specific points is not meeting the prior request and it appears you are simply dismissing them. Glossing over the continuing poor safety practices and avoiding any commitment to safety is your prerogative. Holding neighborhoods to the existing senseless dangerous conditions is in your groups authority to fix. 

I actually believed your group would move toward step safety measures. Clearly your teams goals are not aligned with the DOT, FHWA and The City of Kirkwood public statements. 

At the very least your team should confirm the following;
*Lower the speed limit to 30 mph in Kirkwood.
*Raised cross walk(s) in front of North Kirkwood Middle School and at the Woodgate crossing.
*Mid street refuge islands in these 2 cross walks.
*Continental Cross Walks.

In regards to funding, your plans lacked the safety elements that could have qualified for additional funding. 

I again request a meeting to resolve these Safety issues including the Mayor, our City’s Chief Administrator and Tom Blair.

On behalf of Safer Streets for Kirkwood

From MoDot

Evening Michael,
                I appreciate all the time you have taken recently discussing your group’s initiatives with me personally over the phone and again with my staff and me at the public meeting held on January 9^th. All the correspondence you have shared with us has been given to our project manager and the design staff. We have discussed this information at our project and area team meetings and all are confident in understanding the group’s recommendations, therefore we do not see the need for additional meetings regarding these topics. We will continue to try to incorporate the enhancements your team has proposed for the job, where applicable, while staying within the project’s current scope. It is our responsibility to honor the commitment we have made in our Statewide Transportation Improvement Plan (STIP) and deliver this project on time and on budget. MoDOT will continue to be an active partner beyond this project and open to discussions regarding future improvements, on this and other MoDOT maintained corridors. Regarding some of the more out of the box recommendations you have proposed, local support from the community, municipality and elected officials, along with a source of funding would need to be secured before moving forward. Please feel free to contact me for advice in obtaining that or with any questions you may have. Thanks!

Show him this. QED

They're doing some similar work on Grand Drive in Carondelet Park. Long overdue, and I'm a little worried they're not going to put a proper roundabout back at Grand Dr. and Loughborough Dr. But hey, fixing Grand Dr./Holly Hills Dr./Holly Hills Blvd. will be a big big big firs step. They're also limiting it to one nice narrow lane each way with a generous island at the crosswalks. Which is way the heck overdue. Glad to see Northside is getting some improvements as well. We need more of this. A lot more.

Would have been a great opportunity to implement some basic BRT infrastructure

Yes, bike lanes are removed. MoDot presented bike improvements as a delay of MAYBE 15 SECONDS to traffic. Neighbors refused to accept the risk of 15 seconds delaying them on a project that’s meant to slow them down. IMO, MoDot influenced engagement with pointed and biased questions.

Yes, missed opportunity for BRT. Red paint at bus stops is still possible, but not likely unless City or Bi-State chip in.

Yes, the raised concrete medians will be a graveyard for broken glass and car parts. MoDot will maybe clean them once every two years. Are also uncomfortable built environments for people walking as they lack shade or adequate protection.

Yes, they maintained an interstate design for on/off merging which encourages fast and distracted turns INTO crosswalks.

Yes this might slowdown traffic and reduce car vs. car accidents but this is not better for people walking, biking, or taking transit.

They have some positive comments too. I hope they realize at some point that having a roundabout instead of a stop light ends up being faster. 

Fox2 - Roundabouts coming to Natural Bridge Road to slow drivers and save lives

“It is just hindering our commute. It’s horrible,”

https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/some- ... ave-lives/

I’m not a huge Boyd fan... but transportation in America would be a lot better right now if more elected officials had the guts to tell drivers cry more and get over it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a transplant to Missouri, I'm always pleased to see how prevalent roundabouts are in the state. They're basically non-existent in Illinois (or at least the parts of Illinois I'm familiar with). What led to Missouri embracing the roundabout?

I moved to St. Louis in July 2019 and have had to do a little work in that area both before and after the changes. 

I like the changes. The street seems a bit cleaner, a bit nicer, and I don't think there is any doubt that what they've done up there makes for a much better pedestrian experience than what was there previously. All too often we talk about gun violence in St. Louis without acknowledging how dangerous our pedestrian experiences can be, especially on the North side.

I will say, though, that it is stunning to me how many people on that road have no idea whatsoever on how to drive through a roundabout. I've been behind drivers that have absolutely no idea what they are doing, and that includes witnessing one wreck. I've lost count on how many times somebody has stopped inside the circle to allow me in as I am yielding. 

I just listened to an excellent Freakonomics podcast about roundabouts called “Should Traffic Lights Be Abolished?” After listening to the research, it’s hard not to argue that roundabouts are a net positive for efficiency, costs, and safety for motorist, bikers, and pedestrians.  

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/roundabouts/

NateM___ wrote: ↑

Mar 31, 2021

I just listened to an excellent Freakonomics podcast about roundabouts called “Should Traffic Lights Be Abolished?” After listening to the research, it’s hard not to argue that roundabouts are a net positive for efficiency, costs, and safety for motorist, bikers, and pedestrians.  

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/roundabouts/

I really don't understand why so many people are so vehemently opposed to roundabouts in the US. I am guessing it is due to lack of familiarity. 

NateM___ wrote: ↑

Mar 31, 2021

I just listened to an excellent Freakonomics podcast about roundabouts called “Should Traffic Lights Be Abolished?” After listening to the research, it’s hard not to argue that roundabouts are a net positive for efficiency, costs, and safety for motorist, bikers, and pedestrians.  

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/roundabouts/

I had a long discussion with my brother on the subject where we looked up traffic fatality statistics in a whole bunch of different countries. We were in the UK at the time, and I'd been attempting to wrap my head around the myriad different sorts and incredible commonality of the things there, so we looked up statistics and . . . the UK won by more or less every measure. We checked both fatalities per per passenger mile and per capita as reported on Wikipedia, at least. They beat us, of course, but they also beat Japan, Germany, France, more or less the entire industrialized world. I absolutely love the effect they've had on Carondelet Park and I want a dozen more up and down Grand. Maybe two dozen.

I know this takes it further off tangent: but if I could put traffic circles anywhere it would be along the Skinker/McCausland expressway. Anything to calm down the near highway speeds people travel up and down that road.

NateM___ wrote: ↑

Mar 31, 2021

I just listened to an excellent Freakonomics podcast about roundabouts called “Should Traffic Lights Be Abolished?” After listening to the research, it’s hard not to argue that roundabouts are a net positive for efficiency, costs, and safety for motorist, bikers, and pedestrians.  

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/roundabouts/

Thanks for posting.   Caught part of Freakonomics regular broadcast about roundabouts, not sure how much more to podcast until i listen, while driving home of course but can't recall if I took the route that leads me through my local roundabout.   Been there for several years now and a fan of no more stoplights at the intersection and roundabouts in general..   It was unique to learn that the upfront costs of roundabouts are not cheap.
However,  as you learn more you understand that all things are not created equal and or never designed quite the same.   The local roundabout in my neck of the woods replaced a controlled t-intersection of two busy arterial streets.   But what is odd and not sure if it was driven by lack of space or cost or simply both is that the marked bike lanes coming into the roundabout are directed to the sidewalks.    Creates situation where some cyclist do go onto the sidewalk while others keep riding because of the right of way.  I have passed once when a bicyclist was knocked down and hurt minutes before I got to the roundabout.   
Recently it came to light again that the design might be inadequate when a bicyclist who was retired and of much older age but known well for of his ascent of Mt. Diablo (3900' peak) for 500 consecutive Sundays lost his life in the same roundabout.   Somehow he survived a twisty windy narrow road shared with motorists in rain or shine but the roundabout turned out to much more dangerous.  I suspect someone who is unfamiliar did not yield accordingly.  In same breath I have seen bicyclist not yield either and scary in its own right. 

NextSTL - Crashes Down on Natural Bridge, but More Work Still to be Done

https://nextstl.com/2022/03/crashes-dow ... o-be-done/

^The statistics are incredibly encouraging. I'd really like to see something like that all the way up and down Grand and Kingshighway. Broadway too, really. The major north/south arteries could be a good next step.