The Business Journal is reporting that the FBI is considering consolidating their St. Louis offices into a separate $129 million office complex on this site.
^ That would be awesome! Here is the link for anyone who might be interested. Getting the FBI onto the NGA campus would free that space up along Market for redevelopment...
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -ngas.html
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -ngas.html
Hadn't seen it posted here, but a couple renderings were released for the NGA building. Honestly, kind of underwhelming, I think the concepts looked nicer. That's a lot of land for such a small building. Overall this is going to be big for the North Side and the city, keeping those 3,000 or so jobs, some new homes are already sprouting up in the nearby area, there are plans for more. Developers seem to be looking at this area a bit more and the partnerships between the NGA and SLU and other universities should be a huge step in really making St. Louis the center of Geospatial research and development. But man, that land use...
![]()
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... op-story-1
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... op-story-1
- 2,054
The only saving grace of the large amass of green-space is that it almost looks like it could be a restored native habitat... which I wouldn't completely hate. 
Yeah, pretty underwhelming, but I guess it's pretty much what I expected. Keep in mind, security was one of their main concerns, and the building does look pretty secure tucked behind those garages.
BTW, who's skyline is that?
BTW, who's skyline is that?
- 474
Looks like phase 1 of a project. There's already talk about FBI moving there. Other government agencies may relocate there as time goes by.
- 6,119
Aw c'mon, there's an arch in it so it's all cool, right? Gotta be St. Louis. I remember this T-shirt you could buy in the 90s at Union Station that showed the arch against what looked like the Hancock Center and Se . . . I mean Willis Tower. That only looks a little bit worse than what I've seen in some cheaper flight sims.
I don't think so. I haven't seen a single piece of reporting that says anything about the NGA being built in phases. Yes, the FBI may consolidate there, and I hope they do, but I wouldn't expect that to take up that much more space. The NGA employs far more people in STL than does the FBI. I too have hopes this could become a large federal campus (would even be fine with the RAY building consolidating over here and turning the building at Spruce and Tucker into other office or residential space, but the recent seismic retrofits probably make that a nonstarter). Either way, it's a little less than I was expecting.Black02AltimaSE wrote: ↑Apr 10, 2019Looks like phase 1 of a project. There's already talk about FBI moving there. Other government agencies may relocate there as time goes by.
- 2,386
^The figure floating around for the project was $1.7B. The article that includes this rendering is for $700M of construction. That would seem to indicate there's more to come.
I think the 700M is only for the building construction. It doesn't include all the tech/security things has to be installed later by someone else. That is where a lot of the rest comes in.newstl2020 wrote: ↑Apr 11, 2019^The figure floating around for the project was $1.7B. The article that includes this rendering is for $700M of construction. That would seem to indicate there's more to come.
I do hope the FBI adds a building. I think they also are giving themselves room to expand if needed. The hope is that area develops some now that they are there and they probably don't want to get landlocked around them by taking less space. Parking garages aren't the best looking, but I would rather have that than a sea of surface parking.
- 595
Keep in mind that this isn’t the final design and is subject to change as the construction date gets closer. This gives you a idea of how it may look.
- 2,624
I wonder if there could ever be any integration for some geospatial oriented companies (Google Maps) to enjoy a secured presence on the campus. God knows it's big enough
From what I heard yesterday from people that are in the right position to know this, the FBI St. Louis operations moving to the site just needs to find funding and it will happen. Their building would be on the northern part of the site.
The renderings released are even more bland and boring than I was expecting. Hopefully the look improves as design development moves along.
The renderings released are even more bland and boring than I was expecting. Hopefully the look improves as design development moves along.
Design maybe. But I would be willing to bet building placement, setbacks, etc are permeant, or at least not likely to change much. That's more my complaint, the building design itself actually looks ok to me.
And yes, jshank is correct. The building and it's assorted garages and other infrastructure will cost $700mil. The rest will go to retrofit the building for their mission. It's not for a phase two building of any kind.
Fingers crossed for an FBI consolidation on site. Also really like GoHarv's suggestion about other mapping companies opening up secure facilities on site. It'll never be an "urban" site again, but at least getting a few more buildings or offices on there would go a long way.
- 1,864
Ideally we'd see mapping companies relocating downtown or building offsite - close enough to do business, but pumping in more development money outside of the NGA site.
There are a handful in the Blanke building (14th/Chouteau). Harris, Continental Mapping, T-Kartor, and Northern Grumman (before they closed that office). I think there might be a couple others. I think T-Rex will probably get some also now that NGA is opening a space there.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Apr 12, 2019Ideally we'd see mapping companies relocating downtown or building offsite - close enough to do business, but pumping in more development money outside of the NGA site.
- 1,864
T-Rex definitely should, especially with their new geospatial center. Even Cortex could be a target for firms who want to open shop nearby. My viewpoint is that the NGA site is what it is. We know that there is going to be a large green space perimeter with secure access. I'd rather these contractors, suppliers, and other firms who have a choice where to be locate outside of the NGA site so that we can get more people who can be pedestrian traffic in other places of the city. Spread the wealth.
- 1,792
The FBI move is a really great move if we get MLS because you have an opportunity to coordinate re-development with that project. I am still a big proponent of rerouting metrolink over to Market (below grade) and adding stops at Wells Fargo (Jefferson and Market) and Harris Stowe (Compton and Market). You could probably pay a decent chunk of stadium site prep out of those funds if you rerouted metro in the process. Its a little shady since the tax was approved but stadium funding wasn't, but if the metrolink gets these two stops, and I think are both high value stops for supporting current institution and spurring development, then i wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Is there any information regarding the plan for the current NGIA site? Seems to me there are several historic structures that really should be maintained in the public sphere. Ideally I would like the State to assume ownership of the historic portion of the property and restore it (basically remove a lot of surface parking and maintain it as a State Park. The building itself could be re-purposed but it seems like it might be tough to find an interested tenant.
Is there any information regarding the plan for the current NGIA site? Seems to me there are several historic structures that really should be maintained in the public sphere. Ideally I would like the State to assume ownership of the historic portion of the property and restore it (basically remove a lot of surface parking and maintain it as a State Park. The building itself could be re-purposed but it seems like it might be tough to find an interested tenant.
- 9,545
OGSystems just got 10,000 SF in midtown, they're a Virginia based NGA contractor that is doing a lot of work in STL- they picked midtown because of its vicinity to the new NGA and the current NGA for the next 4-5 years
Probably won't hear anything on the current NGA site until we get closer to a move. It's likely not going to go anywhere though, it's already a historic site I think.STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2019The FBI move is a really great move if we get MLS because you have an opportunity to coordinate re-development with that project. I am still a big proponent of rerouting metrolink over to Market (below grade) and adding stops at Wells Fargo (Jefferson and Market) and Harris Stowe (Compton and Market). You could probably pay a decent chunk of stadium site prep out of those funds if you rerouted metro in the process. Its a little shady since the tax was approved but stadium funding wasn't, but if the metrolink gets these two stops, and I think are both high value stops for supporting current institution and spurring development, then i wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Is there any information regarding the plan for the current NGIA site? Seems to me there are several historic structures that really should be maintained in the public sphere. Ideally I would like the State to assume ownership of the historic portion of the property and restore it (basically remove a lot of surface parking and maintain it as a State Park. The building itself could be re-purposed but it seems like it might be tough to find an interested tenant.
As far as your MetroLink suggestion, with all do respect, that might be the biggest pipe dream I've seen on this site. Any capital MetroLink work should be to expand it into the undeserved North and South sides. Tunneling under Market would be a massive expense and honestly would a station at Compton and Market really make any sense? That's like a massive spaghetti pile of ramps and interchanges and that area is horribly un-walkable. Between the freeway to the south, the seemingly inaccessible Chafitz arena to the north, there isn't much by way of urban density in this area. And likely won't be, I don't see SLU, Wells Fargo, or Harris Stowe doing anything to urbanize that area. Not to mention Harris-Stowe only has about 1,700 students, that's not really going to be a big transit user in all honesty. Plus you're only talking about 3,300 feet from Compton to Jefferson, if anything it would make more sense to have a stop closer to Ewing or even Jefferson that both Wells Fargo and Harris Stowe could share. Plus Grand is only about 2,300 feet as the crow flies from Compton. You're looking at 3 stations all within about a mile of each other, that's overkill. And then from there, where do you shoot it back out to the current alignment? Tunnel it under the proposed MLS stadium? And no, rerouting funds that were voter approved for a North/South MetroLink expansion to stadium site prep (if I'm reading you right) in addition to some Market Street realignment would not only be "shady" but down right illegal.
Do agree with you on the FBI move though.
- 1,792
Biggest pipe dream on the site? I'm flattered but a little skeptical. I think this is actually a conservative proposal for incremental Metrolink expansion as opposed to a full 20-30 station on a North South run. Or a arguably duplicative Olive Street streetcar alignment.
Whether it would be below grade the whole distance between Union Station and Compton. I suppose maybe I am being a little aspirational there. I would definitely agree it would be unlikely with a tunneling method but there is very little in the way of using a much cheaper cut and cover construction method. The FBI building was a big one and if it was gone, I get a little more optimistic.
I read somewhere that the ideal spacing between transit stops is .5 miles. Assuming that right then the spacing feels about right to me. Wells Fargo is a very significant employer and in an industry far more traditionally urban than say NGA which was somehow being considered as a alternate routing for N/S metrolink. I am fairly sure less tha 5% of NGA employees would consider using metrolink for a daily commute. Afterall consider the walk from a link station on the perimeter to the fortrace the are building on the sites interior. Wells Fargo, you could break 10% on day 1. I also think the students and employees of the local HBC would use it at a fairly significant ratio, and don't forget the Chaefitz arena is at Compton. The rest of it you have to chalk up to faith in the development potential of metrolink which we seem to use only when it suits us. It seems like to me dense midrises are far more likely to spring up in place of the various industrial warehouses between market and 64 than anywhere along the NS alignment. But maybe I am just thinking of CORTEX, Foundry, Prospect Yards and Iron Hill and making unsubstantiated leaps of faith.
I also think you overstate the legal constraint on the expansion money. I thought the money was earmarked for metrolink expansion not specific to a N/S alignment. If I'm right then IF you routed metrolink through a parcel intended for a soccer stadium, then all of a sudden use of those funds site prep of the site becomes at least potentially legally justifiable. Its gaming the system and a little shady, but I think it could hold up in court.
Obviously the idea would be complex in its execution requires timing of a not currently funded FBI move to NGA with the MLS stadium build out.of a not currently awarded MLS expansion team would be a down right astral alignment and it has big headwinds of 20 years of failure to execute on 40 year old expansion plans but I really don't think its the biggest pipe dream. Afterall I've personally proposed more ridiculous ideas than this one.
Whether it would be below grade the whole distance between Union Station and Compton. I suppose maybe I am being a little aspirational there. I would definitely agree it would be unlikely with a tunneling method but there is very little in the way of using a much cheaper cut and cover construction method. The FBI building was a big one and if it was gone, I get a little more optimistic.
I read somewhere that the ideal spacing between transit stops is .5 miles. Assuming that right then the spacing feels about right to me. Wells Fargo is a very significant employer and in an industry far more traditionally urban than say NGA which was somehow being considered as a alternate routing for N/S metrolink. I am fairly sure less tha 5% of NGA employees would consider using metrolink for a daily commute. Afterall consider the walk from a link station on the perimeter to the fortrace the are building on the sites interior. Wells Fargo, you could break 10% on day 1. I also think the students and employees of the local HBC would use it at a fairly significant ratio, and don't forget the Chaefitz arena is at Compton. The rest of it you have to chalk up to faith in the development potential of metrolink which we seem to use only when it suits us. It seems like to me dense midrises are far more likely to spring up in place of the various industrial warehouses between market and 64 than anywhere along the NS alignment. But maybe I am just thinking of CORTEX, Foundry, Prospect Yards and Iron Hill and making unsubstantiated leaps of faith.
I also think you overstate the legal constraint on the expansion money. I thought the money was earmarked for metrolink expansion not specific to a N/S alignment. If I'm right then IF you routed metrolink through a parcel intended for a soccer stadium, then all of a sudden use of those funds site prep of the site becomes at least potentially legally justifiable. Its gaming the system and a little shady, but I think it could hold up in court.
Obviously the idea would be complex in its execution requires timing of a not currently funded FBI move to NGA with the MLS stadium build out.of a not currently awarded MLS expansion team would be a down right astral alignment and it has big headwinds of 20 years of failure to execute on 40 year old expansion plans but I really don't think its the biggest pipe dream. Afterall I've personally proposed more ridiculous ideas than this one.
^also I fully agree that north and south are underserved but I would argue a link station at Compton and another at Jefferson allow for more efficient bus routing and transfers to the metrolink spine which serves the employment centers. there would be a net benefit to those regions in that respect. maybe small consolation but not zero sum.
I can't really think of a bigger one, but I'm still relatively new here lol. The tax increase was City only (thanks to Stenger's dillydallying) and the proposed N/S route is now only going to run from Fairground Park to Cherokee Street (they're planning it in phases now), so it's not the "full" multi-billion dollar 30 station proposal you seem to be referencing here. And what you're describing with your proposal here isn't an expansion so much as a reroute. If you want to provide access to Wells Fargo just build a station on the current alignment under Jefferson and make some pedestrian improvements to Jefferson. Wells Fargo would be less than half a mile from there and it would be closer to neighborhoods like Lafayette Square and the Gate, where you actually have some population density. And you still get the bus connections. Tunneling under the freeway, Market Street, and possibly the stadium site is not a "conservative proposal" and in my, admittedly non-engineer, opinion would likely cost more than the proposed first phase of N/S MetroLink which involves no tunneling or cuts.STLEnginerd wrote: Biggest pipe dream on the site? I'm flattered but a little skeptical. I think this is actually a conservative proposal for incremental Metrolink expansion as opposed to a full 20-30 station on a North South run. Or a arguably duplicative Olive Street streetcar alignment.
- 1,792
Definitely more per mile but its only 2 stations and roughly 1.5 miles of track even at 2x the cost per mile it should be well short of the 6.5 mile phase I of N/S. Of course its possible there is some crazy utility nightmare lurking underground that I don't know about. Personally I suspect the average cost per daily rider would hold up pretty well against the of the N/S proposal.
I considered along the highway but I just cant see that being utilized at reasonable numbers, given the distance and infrastructure obstacles. See what I mean about claim it spurs development whenever it suits us.
And I believe it would be upheld as qualifying as expansion in a court of law FWIW.
But the biggest think that get me going about it is that its sort of now or never. There is a window of opportunity but if the stadium is built or the FBI moves NGA and something else gets built there, then its a dead idea. Otherwise I would say sure carry-on and build N/S but do this next.
I considered along the highway but I just cant see that being utilized at reasonable numbers, given the distance and infrastructure obstacles. See what I mean about claim it spurs development whenever it suits us.
And I believe it would be upheld as qualifying as expansion in a court of law FWIW.
But the biggest think that get me going about it is that its sort of now or never. There is a window of opportunity but if the stadium is built or the FBI moves NGA and something else gets built there, then its a dead idea. Otherwise I would say sure carry-on and build N/S but do this next.