urbanSTL

Wabash wrote:According to early alignment plans it looks like the Daniel Boone/Westport expansion would have stations at Delmar, Dielman, Lindbergh, and Westport/I-270, and connect at the Clayton station. These stations are based on studies from '04,'05 and earlier. I would think a Maryland or Olive station would make sense, particularly considering Brown Shoe's ambitious expansion plans. And why Dielman and not Olive? That Dielman office/industrial park is pretty desolate/pointless, and seems like another Sunnen. Anyways, if anyone knows anything about these station locations I'd love to hear it.

I too think that a I-170/Olive Station would make sense too. I wonder if they could somehow have the alignment shoot down Olive instead. Monsanto could be a major station on that route as well as a station near Old Ballas and Olive. In recent years a few office buildings have sprung up near there. Then the alignment could run up 270 to Westport.



I agree, the Dielman area doesn't make much sense. Of course, I'm just an ordinary citizen and not a transportation planner.



Edit: I wanted to add some map ideas I came up with but can't. My ideas for stations along this alignment are:



1)Clayton - Current station on Shrewsbury line.



2)Ladue Rd./I-170 - Above ground station with no parking.



3)Delmar/I-170 - Underground station with no parking.



4)Olive/I-170 - Above ground station just west of Office Max. At least a transfer station, maybe a small parking lot as well. Alignment then runs west along Olive and goes underground after station.



5)Monsanto East - Just east of Monsanto campus on the east side of Lindbergh tracks return above ground. Station would be on south side of Olive between Warson and Old Olive. No parking.



6)Monsanto West - After fly over at Lindbergh/Olive interchange, this station would be above ground on south side of Olive directly across from AMC theater. No parking. Tracks go underground from here.



7)Creve Couer - Underground station on north side of Olive between Craig Rd. and Old Ballas. Current site is vacant. No parking. From this station, tracks stay underground and turn north just before 270.



West Port - Tracks resurface just north of Olive and 270 and run along northbound 270. Tracks fly over 270 and Page interchange and terminate at West Port Plaza. Parking garage and transfer station.

Dielman serves a pocket of public housing and apartments full of transit-dependents, and it's a cheaper location to buy land for a park-and-ride and bus loop to serve Overland and greater surroundings than land in Olivette.



A station at Olive/170 could always be added to the planned route to Westport. In fact, there are options at Olive to be either on the east or west side, so I say let University City and Olivette compete for the station. Whichever city could commit the most TOD next to such station should get the station.



As for turning onto Olive instead of running parallel to Page, I think you have to ask if Monsanto would even want MetroLink enough to help pay the difference. Likewise, if Edward Jones and others out in Creve Coeur would support a Olive/270 station, if going that route to Westport, and optimistically someday St. Charles County and/or even Chesterfield. However, the Lindbergh station (just south of Page) on the planned alignment would serve a lot of apartments with perhaps shuttle connections to Monsanto.



Personally, I find the Monsanto-campus argument funny, when a hypothetical Ballas/40 station wouldn't stop directly at either St. John's Mercy or MO Baptist. Maybe instead of building insular campuses or office parks, major employers should build walkable activity centers. In that case, Creve Coeur's efforts at Olive/Ballas for a "mini-downtown" are about the only thing catching my eye over Westport, which itself is too inward-looking.

I don't think Monsanto is a good of pick as every one thinks. Its employees must come from all over the County which isn't great for generating rides, its just up the road to the airport, campus itself sprawls, and I don't think they have any interesting in creating a dense environment nor do they need too nor does the surrounding home owners wish it will happen.



I think the current alignment favors old right of way as well as opportunities with the Dansforth Life Science development. Here you have a development with varied employers with limited acreage and will succeed only with density. Much different perspective then Monsanto



As far as Olive/I-170 vs Westport Plaza its more dependent on which community is willing to put forth an invsestment. This is where it makes sense to finance stations with TDD's in my mind. Who is willing to make that committment or obligate themselves. A dedicated bus circular can easily serve either one as well as Edward Jones Expansion in between.



My bet is the current alignment that gives the greater opportunity of TOD Development as well as revitalizing Westport Plaza. The disappointing part in my mind is that the City of Maryland Heights will put its effort behind new box store developement in a flood plain rather then revitalizing Westport Plaza.

Yay for good discussion!



Yes to redevelopment of Westport (don't forget about the whole surrounding area), and apartment community around Lindbergh and the science hub there too.



First, Wesport may be nothing like Tyson's Corner Virginia but better since it is smaller and the possibility of redeveloping the Wesport area into a grid with TOD is very likely. New office buildings are still being constructed without regard to public transportation and we need to correct this with sending Metrolink their way. This is a great place for reverse-commuter ridership and definitely for getting more of those St. Charles Countians on Metro and warmer to the idea of expansion across the Missouri.



Second, the apartment/condo community between Schuetz-Old Olive and along Lindbergh is very big for a suburban area. Some of the buildings are becoming too old and warrant major renovations or replacement. The replacement route offers a unique opportunity to reconstruct the high density area into more of a connected community with say a regular shuttle or good bike/pedestrian bridge over Lindbergh. However, the redevelopment of the west side of Lindbergh should not be considered isolated from the east side and its older office buildings that also have seen the majority of their useful economic life. This area could rebuild into a true mixed use suburban center with science (biomedical and lifesciences) being a significant portion. There is a strong need for more apartments and condos in a well located area like this with good access to Clayton/airport/hospitals/suburban job centers and let's not forget about good schools. Remember redevelopment of these maturing post-war suburbs or more exurban sprawl.



Third, pass that tax already and let St. Louis County have a future that at least maintains our population and doesn't see it fall off the map like what we did to the City.

Good ideas STL-James and a Monsanto station would provide transit for a lot of jobs (although I'm with Dredger on the impracticality of it). I think it's important to remember that the reason this line is feasible and proposed is that there is a pre-existing right-of-way that runs north along 170, then northwest from Olive to Dielman, and then hits page just west of Lindbergh. This alignment would allow metrolink to have its own independent right-of-way at a relatively lower cost than subway, elevated or even in-road street-car construction. The most expensive aspects would be be grade separations at major crossings and new railway construction along Page.



Considering the distances this extension will travel and its distance from downtown, it is important that this line is built with a fully separated right-of-way. The only way that could be afforded is to use the pre-existing railway right-of-way. That leaves the possibilities of:



Maryland Ave/Ladue Rd

Delmar Blvd. & I-170

Olive Blvd. & I-170

Dielman Rd.

Ashby/N Warson

Lindbergh Blvd

Schuetz Rd. & Page

I-270 & Page

In this age of economic melt down while Metro is practically begging for more money just to operate what it has currently, and the government probably isn't going to want to help much with any capial projects for a while (unless we get a new New Deal), I love engaging in urban transit plan daydreaming. From the proposed Page & 270 station it wouldn't be hard to turn south for 2 miles along 270 ROW down to Olive, continuing to the hospitals at I64 (Ballas transfer station) then to Manchester and that retail and commercial space.

ROW

Agreed that separate right-of-way with as few railroad crossing is best to minimize conflicts or accidents. It also allows for greater speed and future conversion to rapid rail (that alone would cost lots of money to upgrade every station and improve rails but may be worth it one day).





I-270

You bring up a great point about the major employment centers or growing ones along I-270, but maybe rail extension from Westport is not the first alternative that comes to mind unless a separate alignment along the highway was constructed.



Since so much traffic uses the highway it may be best to make use of the existing highway with express bus or rapid bus that comes in from separate origins (only Northeast county, only Northcentral county, only Northwest county, only St. Charles east, St. Charles triangle, Manchester road, etc) and then speeds rapidly between their section of the count(ies) to select desinations off the interchanges such as Ballas MO Babtist, Transfer center, St. Johns then to Olive/Creve Coeur, then Westport, then Boeing, and circle around for reverse.



Either that or a bus way and people pull the cord for their stop or some technological way notify the driver of their destination.



Even though i generally support rail, it appears from research that bus makes a lot of sense for widely dispersed suburbanites who can either drive half their journey to work and park or maybe park within a few miles of home and take the vast majority of their ride to work on the express or rapid bus.