urbanSTL

This thread has been split from Metrolink Expansion. Carry on please...

I don't know if it's the same guy, but I was going west and when the driver approched the Forsythe stop, started rattling off places of interest like the Rrrrrrrrrrrritz Carrrrrrrrrrrrrrlton! It reminded me of a boxing announcer: "Are we rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrready to rrrrrrrrrrrrrrumble???"



I thought it was hilarious and it put a smile on my face. I think a standard recorded message for each stop would work best, but I'm sure that would annoy some people, too.

OK, METRO - you have go to do SOMETHING about your rail operators SOON!



I was sitting on a train today and literally I get frustrated with every rail operator there is out there... inconsistent, idiotic, and uninformative... it is like listening to a FREAK SHOW on rail!



Busdad and any other Metro officials on these boards need to start listening to the crys of help on tis issue here - especially here!



On the train today from the International Airport to Shrewsbury... our operator literally was YELLING at people on the platforms to (and I quote) "hurry", "push the button", etc... talked non-stop and then NEVER said what destination the train was bound for - nor that you had to transfer at Forest Park if you are taking the Shrewsbury Line. The business traveler that got onto the train at Lambert asked me if they "talk the entire ride" and I said "sometimes". He even called the Delmar Loop station the UNIVERSITY CITY DELMAR station... what is that?



The Shrewsbury Line operator sounded "drunk" and spoke a language I couldn't understand (although it was English) and completely missed telling us two of the stations upon arrival.



I know METRO said there is a "script" or something, but this is beyond laughable or overlooking. It is embarrassing and flatout UNACCEPTABLE!



This is something that can completely be monitored and resolved with a serious position and stand on the matter from METRO. METRO does NOT need to spend any money on this issue either and it should be a cut/dry condition in working and operating Metro trains. If you cannot follow policy and regulations - then you're out! Period.



Metro train operators do not need to point out all destinations, attractions, etc... - connecting bus lines are one thing - but really even those are "moot" to most.



It is such a simple rectification and yet Metro doesn't seem to monitor or control it at all and it is really blatantly unacceptable!



The drivers should only say (in clear speaking volume and phonics:



As approaching station:



THE NEXT STATION STOP IS THE FOREST PARK / DeBaliviere STATION



DOORS WILL OPEN ON THE RIGHT (quit the "my" right/left crap)



THIS IS AN EASTBOUND TRAIN TO SHILOH SCOTT



IF YOU ARE TRAVELING WESTBOUND TO SHREWSBURY / I-44 - EXIT AT FOREST PARK / DeBaliviere AND TRANSFER TO A WESTBOUND SHREWSBURY / I-44 TRAIN



once arrival at station...



THIS IS FOREST PARK/ DeBaliviere



THIS IS AN EASTBOUND TRAIN TO SHILOH SCOTT



DOORS CLOSING





It isn't that hard... but I guess it is!



It would be nice to hear this... but Metro is limited on funds - so just do it right and it costs nothing to correct, fix and monitor!



Charlotte Lynx System (new)





Chicago CTA





INSTEAD WE GET FREAK SHOWS:



The comedy barn on rails - He likes to talk like a preacher and says "Have a Blessed night" and talks loud and obnoxious!

Does not announce train direction at all.





The never shut up - what the hell is he rambling about? he talks the entire ride!





The yeller





JUST a few of the MANY (almost all)!

matguy70 wrote:DOORS WILL OPEN ON THE RIGHT (quit the "my" right/left crap)

I think that is for the backwards seats.

Yes, but you are travellin in one direction --- would someone really not know that the right would be the direction of travel --- well maybe!



But, at this rate, you cannot understand most of them anyway.

Don't you know you're not supposed to complain? Just listen to an iPod solves everything, so I've heard



Actually your #1 guy is the one who says "The next station is the Union Station Metrolink station." That usually makes my morning.



As for the "on my right" or "on my left"....if it was necessary or required for compliance, I'd think at least one other city would include that in the announcement, but I've yet to hear it anywhere else.

bprop wrote:As for the "on my right" or "on my left"....if it was necessary or required for compliance, I'd think at least one other city would include that in the announcement, but I've yet to hear it anywhere else.

It's been a long time since I've had the pleasure of visiting DC, but as TGE-ATW pointed out much earlier in the thread, they keep it simple. Back then at least, the name of the stop was followed by the side on which the doors would open, such as "McPherson Square- doors open on the right". Chimes indicated when the doors were closing, so no announcement was necessary even though some drivers would announce doors closing before the chimes sounded. Thankfully, there was no comedy hour.



A little bit of color is fine- I like it when they announce the Busch Stadium stop as "Home of the 2006 World Champion St. Louis Cardinals". But I agree, there are too many inconsistencies, and Metro should insist on professionalism from its drivers.

ThreeOneFour wrote:
It's been a long time since I've had the pleasure of visiting DC, but as TGE-ATW pointed out much earlier in the thread, they keep it simple. Back then at least, the name of the stop was followed by the side on which the doors would open, such as "McPherson Square- doors open on the right".

You're right - there are a few I forgot that announce the side. Have not been DC at all, so I missed that entirely.

The train operator that always bugged me was the guy who would SHOUT the name of the station into the mike, to the point where the PA system peaked out and you couldn't hear what he said. Then in an almost inaudible voice, he'd read the connecting bus list.



GRAND! GRAND STATION! mumble bus mumble 70 mumble ...



I'd rather see money spent on putting information on bus stop signs beyond simply the words "Bus Stop" over automated annunciation systems on trains. A simple script and making sure people stick with it really is all it takes.

ben1040 wrote: A simple script and making sure people stick with it really is all it takes.

Correct, and over one year ago, Metro told me they were working on this very thing. A year after that, it still wasn't done. It's the small things that counts, and this one has sat un-done for years. It should have been a non-issue starting in 1994.

THANK YOU!!! I have been wanting to post this for so long..


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Yeah, I remember when I regularly rode the Metrolink that maybe 1 out of 6 MetroLink operators spoke loudly and clearly enough to be understood. Obviously the system isn't really complicated so it doesn't impact things that much, but I agree, automated announcements would be good and likely not that hard to set up.

Then you can't have personal color and "spin" on announcements, like (and I know Red Lobster has since closed):

"The next station stop is Maypo-wood, home of the Lowez, the Wal Marts, the Sam's Clupp, the Oliff Gartin', the Rhett Loppstah, and numerous other shopping and dining establishments. "


(at five thirty in the morning, on top of it).

BTW, I started a similar topic almost ten years ago:

https://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4386

I was told to wear headphones.

I can't say as the announcements have ever bothered me, nor do I see a reason to spend money on automating them when the sound system and environment are poor enough that they'd be hard to understand anyway. They seem pretty comparable to announcements I've heard elsewhere in the world. Could be worse; could be pilot announcements on an aircraft. Can't say as I've ever been able to understand those. (Mm. Once in a while, but not often.)

symphonicpoet wrote:I can't say as the announcements have ever bothered me, nor do I see a reason to spend money on automating them when the sound system and environment are poor enough that they'd be hard to understand anyway. They seem pretty comparable to announcements I've heard elsewhere in the world. Could be worse; could be pilot announcements on an aircraft. Can't say as I've ever been able to understand those. (Mm. Once in a while, but not often.)

Eh, most all other light rail lines nationwide have auto announcements


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Yea, I don't know what draws you to the conclusion that the sound system would make automated announcements hard to understand. At the right volume, cadence, and diction, announcements are perfectly understandable on the train.

And anecdotally, reactions as to finding current announcement bothersome or not bothersome are pretty much divided between those who ride Metrolink daily and those who ride it occasionally.

You think fixing the announcements it the wisest thing to spend money on? You may be right that the folks that ride daily find it more bothersome, but I don't think fixing it would get you more daily riders. Extending it, on the other hand very well might. (And my mother rode it daily and had favorite operators. But she's a talky one. As am I. I rather prefer the human touch, no matter how difficult to understand it might be.)

The Chicago announcement is new. It was still human the last time I rode it. (Oh . . . probably five or six years ago now.) As was the New York, though that's even further back. Can't recall whether the Tokyo was human or automated, but I couldn't understand it anyway. San Fran was quite definitely human. As was New Orleans. Though both of those are quasi-tourist and it's been a while since I rode either.

Boston:
SF BART:
DC Metro, where you get both automated (for the doors) and human (for the stations):


And just for grins . . . here's Tokyo, which I believe is human (not that it would make a difference in my case, but I managed it anyway):

(Also, it's Tokyo, so there are no Western parallels.)

Of course on your side of things, it seems Stuttgart has gone automated:
Stuttgart:

Ah well. What do you do?

symphonicpoet wrote:You think fixing the announcements it the wisest thing to spend money on?

I bet Metro could reduce the in-train advertising budget by 10% - you know, the advertisements that advertise Metro TO people who are already riding - and cover the cost of plugging in a little digital audio player for the announcements. This initiative doesn't need a consultant, hired voice talent, or expensive equipment. Just a little out of the box thinking.

bprop wrote:This initiative doesn't need a consultant, hired voice talent, or expensive equipment. Just a little out of the box thinking.

So, what, you're going to walk in and plug your iPod into what jack? And tell the iPod to play which track how? You're quite wrong there. It does require consultants and equipment at the very least. And if not voice talent, then a license for the software. Is there an adequate line level input for a playback device in each trainset? Is there mixing to balance the mic (which you'll still need for emergencies at least) and the line input? Even if both of those are true (they're surely not) then you'll still need automation equipment to pick the right announcement for the right time. I suppose you'll suggest that you could create a playlist and hit play for each stop, but the announcer isn't much more likely to use playback equipment correctly than to make the announcement clearly in the first place. And then you have to make sure the right set of announcements is loaded and all that jazz. Your solution is absolutely not something that could simply be covered by Metrolink not paying for ads they already don't pay for. (You think charges themselves for advertising space? You have to pay printing and installation costs. But in the grand scheme of things . . . they're about as close to free as anything on BSD's budget. They're only there as placeholders until someone else pays rent for a real ad.)

You might want to rethink this plan. I'd guess it's going to cost into six figures: You'll be paying your installers to drill holes, solder connections, make up plates, label stuff so you can fix it when it breaks. There will be at least a few hours of installation labor on each set alone. (And that's if you have pros working fast and not making mistakes.) Let's start with five hundred a train at least in labor alone. And not a penny less. Add to that equipment, licensing (there's always licensing, either for your software or your voice actor, or more realistically both), design fees, and overhead . . .

What box do you want to think out of? It's one thing for someone that actually knows audio installation and automation software to recommend Extron to someone who wants a Crestron system. It's another thing entirely to believe a your buddy with the garage band who took a couple of computer classes in college can fix up a sound system for a train that will actually work to announce station stops. The first one shaves ten or maybe twenty percent off your bill. The second one . . . Let's just say you don't build a railroad (or a functioning commercial sound system) like that.

And guess what? In the end, not one more person actually rides the darn thing because you did all that. People don't ride trains because of the pretty announcements. They ride them because they're clean, safe, and they take people where they want to go. You want more riders? Make your trains cleaner, safer, and make take more people where they want to go. I don't mean to be a spoil-sport, but you're living in a fantasy. The announcements aren't the problem. Just relax and get a different set of headphones for your iPod if they bother you that much. Something that cancels out the outside noise. If you're paying attention you don't need the announcements anyway. I've ridden transit on three continents, in nine countries, in dozens, possibly hundreds of cities, all over the US, Europe, and East Asia. I assure you, I did not understand squat in quite a few of those places. And I travel alone, for the most part. I don't ride Metrolink daily because it doesn't go where I go for the most part. And I live in the bloody city, thanks. I've ridden it as often as I can gin up an excuse as long as it's been there. And a few times just for pure entertainment. It's really a remarkably simple system. You could get rid of the announcements entirely and it would still be as clear as day. Heck . . . they HAVE automated announcements at the station platforms to tell you which stinking train is coming. I guess some folks get antsy if the train isn't there before they get to the bottom of the stairs.

It's late, and I probably shouldn't be so snarky. Your suggestion is innocent and doubtless well intentioned. But it's more complex than you think. And I really don't think it would change much or the opinions of many. (And my mother did ride every day when she worked at Wash U. As did a fair number of her friends. Never once heard a complaint from her or anyone else. Heck . . . mom became friends with some of the guards and operators. Knew 'em by name.)

Geez, calm down.

Yes, there's a line level input. They use it when they play Christmas music over the speakers on the holiday car using...gasp...a little MP3 player. matguy70 above used a computer voice to speak some stops and it sounded 100% better than 95% of the drivers. Standard announcements could be in a playlist ordered in the exact order they'd need to play (approaching X, closing doors, approaching Y, closing doors, etc.) with the driver doing anything out of the ordinary. Buses use a synthesized voice for announcements with the GPS-based system, so it's not unprecedented. In-station announcements and emergency alerts are also done with a synthesized voice.

Importantly, such an experiment could start out small - scaling up or if appropriate, or being abandoned if it doesn't work out, with almost nothing lost. Yes, that is thinking out of the box, vs. pulling out all the stops upfront on some hard-wired, proprietary system.

I don't know where you're getting that anyone claimed increase ridership.

As I noted about nine years ago on this very thread:

Yes, I realize lines have been drawn in the sand on this issue.

On one hand, group A believes our transit system's announcements should be adequate, conforming to ADA and the agency's own regulations, accurate, and professional.

Group B believes group A should purchase electronic gadgets to drown out the sound.

There are still people in Group B and I accept that.

It seems wasteful to me to search for a technology solution to a problem that by all that I have seen simply doesn't exist. Yes, announcements should be accurate, professional, and ADA compliant. I've never seen any reason to believe they were anything else.

To me it looks like this: We're already paying for an operator. Why pay for tech? I'm not suggesting something proprietary and expensive. I'm suggesting that your proposed solution might have some problems. Christmas music needn't be accurate or ADA compliant. You play the wrong carol, or forget to play one, and no one gets too worried about it. Play the wrong announcement, or fail to play it because you can't figure out the system and you've created a (small) problem. But precisely the same problem you're already describing. Asking the operator to figure out an MP3 player and use it increases their workload. Drivers aren't universally the most tech savy folks. Something lower tech is easier. The operater needs to know where the train is anyway, so they have to have the knowledge of the next station at hand. Pushing a button to turn on a mic is easy. It's always the same button. It always works the same way. Frequently it's a key on the side of a handset. Very very easy. Operating an MP3 player is a little harder. Try walking and selecting a track and compare it to walking and hitting a button. Sure, if you're familiar you can do it. But maybe you walk a little slower. Or you're looking away from the sidewalk for a moment. The operator can't do that. The system needs to be dead simple. An OTS consumer MP3 player with a playlist is not. You can't assume that everyone is as tech savy as you are. And operating the train safely is a little more mission critical, thus distractions are verboten. Sure, a pilot project answers some complaints. But it's not quite as dead simple as you suggest.

Also . . . the busses are mostly newer. As they get new trainsets some of what you want will probably happen anyway. New equipment will come stock with newer tech. Just be patient. This isn't a problem that needs fixing now. If you don't like tech to solve your own personal problem, try maybe just breathing a little bit more. Slowly and deeply. Helps sometimes.