Hope you you choose the STL. If we can be of any assistance to you, just ask us a question, we would be glad to answer it if we can. Happy home hunting.
St. Louis is a very "livable" city. If you decide to move here, you'll really be happy with the amount of house you get for your money and the short commutes to work.
Just curious, but what are some of the misconceptions you or others have about StL? If we can learn what others actually think of us maybe we can address those misconceptions.
Well I know in it's heyday, St. Louis was even bigger than Boston...population wise.
All older cities seemed to have experienced a period of decay, but I thought St. louis was is desperate shape..kinda like Buffalo or Detroit.
But it looks pretty vibrant to me. And I wasn't aware of all the cultural amenities in the city. I also thought the crime was rampant there...although all cities have crime. Is it just particular areas you have to be careful in?
It is funny you say "looks like Boston" ... because STL is often referred to the Boston of the Midwest.
Even Linda Tucci (a city advocate writer of the Post Dispatch newspaper) called ST. LOUIS "Boston of the Midwest" after she relocated to the east coast.
Lewis and Clark Website:
St. Louis in many ways is the Boston of the Midwest - home of graceful old brick buildings that have housed generations of immigrants and guardian of the region's history through long-established cultural and research institutions. To pay homage to the events of 1804 and 1904, the city and its surrounding suburbs are plumbing the depths of this heritage.
at the same time we should be realistic, it doesn't have the European walkability and or level of urbanity that Boston has though. I just like giving people a balanced sense of what a city is, i'm sure if you visit you'll see it for yourself (since pictures often show more by what they don't include within the frame). Is it as bad as Detroit or Buffalo? No. Is it already back to Pre-war vibrancy, far from it. St. Louis is a lot more eastern in terms of feel and architecture than many mid-western cities. You can find walkable neighborhoods that are urban (by that i mean "neighborhoods as defined by communities with a broad range of living, working, and playing options, with services provided to meet daily needs" ((within walkable distances)) but i wouldn't say they are quite as much the norm as they are in Boston or many Eastern cities. They are happening right now though, if you want to be part of something fresh and new you should come right now, because right now is when many are repopulating the old neighborhoods that were on the decline or in trouble. The infrastructure for urban neighborhoods is abundant, but the people who are actually there helping create living neighborhoods are still coming in. Anyway, I encourage you to come to St. Louis, it's a great city that has reached bottom but is well on its way towards coming back (see census news) There are already mature neighborhoods with vibrant and diverse communities, and plenty more that are in their infancy and adolescence just waiting for the next wave of newcomers to keep the momentum going.
I would agree with ComandeteCero that St. Louis is not on par with Boston.
People that enjoy St. Louis from the east coast are the ones that can enjoy a livable, charming urban town.
While St. Louis is not on par with Boston or Chicago by no stretch of the imagination in terms of energy and sophistication. It is one of the most livable urban cities in the country. Low cost of living, major job growth, excellent urban architecture all mixed with a laid back pace for people than enjoy a laid back pace.
The Central West End, Soulard, Benton Park, and Downtown are the places to be right now, as far as I know. Washington Avenue is in downtown, served by metrolink, and is a place for you if you like converted warehouse lofts, lots of transportation options, and quite a bit of nearby nightlife . The central west end, also served by metrolink, is the best place for high rise living in a very urban, multicultural, atmosphere, and it also has a lot of nightlife. It's along one of the largest urban parks in the country, Forest Park, which is home to the City's History, Science, and Art Museums, and the Zoo, one of the best in the country. Soulard, and Benton Park are very old St. Louis neighborhoods. Soulard is home to the 2nd largest Mardi Gras in the country, and it may be the fastest growing as well. It get's pretty crazy during Soulard Mardi Gras. Benton Park is Soulard's neighbor to the west, and is somewhat of an extension of Soulard. Charokee Street, a highly Mexican populated area of St. Louis, lies to the south of it. Tower Grove is a neighborhood that centers around the city's "2nd park." The park is quite beautiful, as are the houses. This area is near one of the best Botanical Gardens in the country, and is a nice mixture of long time locals and out of towners . It's also home to St. Louis's Gay Pride parade, one of the largest in the country. Other interesting neighborhoods are "The Hill," the Italian neighborhood which features some great Italian restaurants, bakeries, and specialty shops. Old North St. Louis is a very old , up and coming neighborhood just north of Downtown. Midtown is another up and coming neighborhood, served by metrolink, known as the theater and arts center of the city. It's home of St. Louis University.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this information.
I agree with Xing on the Central West End, Soulard, Benton Park, Tower Grove and Downtown (specifically Washington Avenue), although I don't think you will find a brick bungalow downtown.
Lafayette Square is another great neighborhood and is St. Louis' oldest historic district. Not a lot of bungalows... mostly Victorian-style homes, but a place you may want to check out.
A good place to start once you have a few neighborhoods in mind is the St. Louis Community Information Network website:
Returning to New York from visiting our sons in Denver, my wife and I were facing an unexpectedly long layover at Lambert Airport, so we got on the MetroLink and checked out the area around the Delmar Loop station, which we'd heard was well located, attractive and sensibly priced. We were already considering a move to St. Louis, so this impromptu visit was a welcome if unexpected opportunity.
What was striking to us was the quality of the buildings in this area--handsome more than pretty, each house related to yet different from its neighbors. Generous setbacks and deep back yards, producing wide, elegant blocks (though not enough trees or shrubs to soften the hard edges of these very solid structures). There's deterioration, sure; but not the kind of dilapidation we're used to as old-house owners in New York.
Coming from a market in which any assemblage of bricks or boards in the outer boroughs (forget Manhattan) can fetch $350K and often a lot more, St. Louis real estate appears to me to be a real value simply as real estate. But when you factor in the city's substantial cultural and transit infrastructure, it's a real bargain. I don't think it's any accident that, as the cost of housing in other major cities escalates, people like us who are looking for alternatives are finding St. Louis.
I couldn't agree with you more. I am relocating to the area this spring from Memphis Tennessee. I've done alot of homework on the DC/Baltimore area along with Chicago, New York and Philly. I've chosen St. Louis because it is a livable urban city. It has a cosmopolitain flair that I thrive off of and at the same time its affordable. I consider St. Louis to be a good medium. No Chicago of DC but its more cosmopolitain that Memphis.
The city is definately on the rebound and is making up for lost time. I am looking forward to living in St. Louis and making it my home once again. And its exciting to hear other people that are not from St. Louis have a positive experience in the city.
It seems that a lot of people are giving St. Louis a 2nd look. I'm hoping to visit in Spring and just started a subscrition to St. Louis magazine to learn more.
From what I've seen and read so far, the CWE and Tower Grove interest me most...as far as living. Are they're single family homes in these neighborhoods, or are they primarily urban? Could I buy a decent small house for say $200k? I need a little yard for my 90lb dog.
One of the best attributes of cities is the sheer variety of people...I'm a people watcher. Does St. Louis have a sizable population of artsy / funky / gay/ etc kind of people?
byonex wrote:Keep the good info coming...and thanks.
It seems that a lot of people are giving St. Louis a 2nd look. I'm hoping to visit in Spring and just started a subscrition to St. Louis magazine to learn more.
From what I've seen and read so far, the CWE and Tower Grove interest me most...as far as living. Are they're single family homes in these neighborhoods, or are they primarily urban? Could I buy a decent small house for say $200k? I need a little yard for my 90lb dog.
One of the best attributes of cities is the sheer variety of people...I'm a people watcher. Does St. Louis have a sizable population of artsy / funky / gay/ etc kind of people?
Thanks again!
Brian
The Tower Grove East and South neighborhoods consist primarily of single-family or double-family housing units. The housing stock is very old and very historic. Both neighborhoods are situated along "Grand South Grand," a stretch of Grand Blvd. with one of St. Louis' longest strips of ethnic restaurants and eclectic shops. The area is very cosmopolitan. Many Vietnamese people call it home. The Hispanic neighborhood is located not too far away. The Tower Grove area is very gay-friendly as well.
Housing prices range from very low (30-60k on Arsenal St.) to fairly high in this particular area. I don't think many houses exceed 200k in this particular area.
I moved to Chicago about 1 1/2 years ago for a job opportunity and an opportunity to live outside of the St. Louis area, since I've lived there my whole life.
Chicago is definately more cosmopolitan, upscale, and urban. I love it here in the city. Transportation is good, and there is a ton to see and do.
However, despite all that, my wife and I still want to move back to STL. I make it back every few months, and most recently over New Years. Let me tell you - STL is definately on the move! It's no Boston, Chicago, Seattle, etc... What it is, however, is a city ready to become a big urban city again. There is so much untapped architecture in STL still, even with the huge redevelopment boom going on. Retail is pouring in - I saw significant increases downtown, in South Grand, Lafayette Square, and Delmar loop - from just a year ago!
I can't imagine a better time to move/live in St. Louis, as anyone on this board will tell you. People looking to relocate from Boston, NYC, DC, Philly, etc... - STL needs YOU. You are the type of people that will help pioneer and revitalize STL. You are the type of people that first moved downtown to the Wash. Ave. loft district, and are now seeing skyrocketing appreciation rates, and the ability to walk to coffee shops, bars, restaurants, and grocery.
I don't think anyone relocating from the east coast will be dissapointed with STL, as long as they don't expect it to replace their Boston, NYC, DC. STL is not one of these cities, nor does it claim to be. However, STL is a world-class city with world-class architecture, good public transportation, great restaurants, and affordable housing. Best of all, STL is seeing a rennassance - nothing is more exciting than that.
St. Louis is a classic. You can tell by looking around that this city meant something to the world. It has a story to tell, and that story never ends (sorry for sounding sappy). The quality of our neighborhoods, cultural institutions and housing stock cannot be replicated. This is the real deal. I hope you come and see for yourself why this old b**** refuses to throw in the cards.
btw, I think you mentioned that you're Jewish. So am I, and there is a fabulous, extremely progressive congregation in the City that embraces interracial/interfaith and homosexual couples and families. It is the fastest-growing reform Jewish congregation in the United States...
You could definitely get a great house for around $200k in Tower Grove South, East or in Shaw. TG South is getting a little pricey, but there are still some reasonably priced houses there (the houses are larger and more expensive in Tower Grove Heights, the section of the neigborhood between Grand and Gustine). You could easily get a nice, fully rehabbed home in Shaw for $200k. The neighborhood is improving rapidly, and there are lots of developers rehabbing homes there. It's not quite as nice as Tower Grove South, but it will be in a few years.
One neighborhood that you didn't mention, that I must recommend is Skinker-DeBaliviere. It is very similar in look and feel to the Tower Grove area, but it's in a much better location. S-D is just blocks away from Forest Park and is very close to the CWE and is within walking distance of the Delmar Loop. It's a great urban neighborhood, consisting mostly of single-family homes, with some apartments and condos as well. It's close to Wash U., so there are a lot of college students, but there are a lot of families there as well. I've seen some nice houses for sale in the neighborhood for $175,000 to $200,000.
Housing prices range from very low (30-60k on Arsenal St.) to fairly high in this particular area. I don't think many houses exceed 200k in this particular area.
Actually, the low end of prices on Arsenal is around $80k, but you'll occasionally see some fixer-uppers for sale for $60-70k. There have been several houses sold in the $200 - $300k+ range on Arsenal.
Around Morganford, there are smaller, frame houses that can still be had for a song. They're not nearly as nice as the houses further east, but I'm sure their value will be going up soon.
I own a building on Arsenal, so I tend to follow real estate values there fairly closely.
