I have been to many cities of this size that have very vibrant areas. They may have one or a few large & VERY vibrant areas, but there is something to be said for what we have here. St. Louis has MANY smaller vibrant areas that are diverse. There really isn't an area that is made up of block after block of retail, restaurants, bars, clubs etc...etc.. However, the thing I love about this town, is the neighborhoods and the smaller vibrant areas in each neighborhood. Go down the list (Soulard & CWE being the exception due to size) Dogtown, Ivanhoe area, South Grand, Loop, Washington, the Grove, Morganford/Arsenal area, The Hill, Lafeyette Square, on and on and on, that is what makes this city unique and I feel better off than a lot of cities. If the city can continue the pre-recession steam we had, this city will continue to impress the national scene. Up to now, we are still under the radar and one of America's underappreciated gems. Been to both cities, no comparison!!
It's absolutely true to say that outside Chicago, no other Midwestern city has neighborhoods like St. Louis.
and it's true to say that NO other city in the midwest, let alone country (outside NY, Philly, Baltimore/DC) that has houses like we do in the West End.
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^Lot's of places. Chicago, KC, Indy, Little Rock, Memphis, etc...
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Lake Street in Milwaukee has a very similar look and feel to Lindell in the CWE (by Forest Park).
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You mean Lake Drive? Anyway, the homes there are nice, as are the homes along Meridian in Indianapolis. I still think there's something different about the collection of homes in the Central West End.
But either way, the neighborhoods in this city are fantastic!
But either way, the neighborhoods in this city are fantastic!
^ Well, I sent a quick question to a friend in (of all places) Ft. Wayne, Indiana and look what he sent back. OK, OK there are other cities with homes like we have in the CWE!
http://www.westcentralneighborhood.org/ ... tories.htm
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http://www.westcentralneighborhood.org/ ... tories.htm
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Grover wrote:You mean Lake Drive? Anyway, the homes there are nice, as are the homes along Meridian in Indianapolis. I still think there's something different about the collection of homes in the Central West End.
But either way, the neighborhoods in this city are fantastic!
Okay, maybe a little more Compton Heights-ish overall, but I remember seeing some of the former homes of beer barons that would fit in perfectly in the CWE.
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and while Memphis has some nice housing stock in it's Midtown area I don't know that it's really comparable to what we have in the CWE.
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Are you talking about the opulent CWE architecture? It's beautiful, but, in my opinion, less architecturally significant than St. Louis's amazing old vernacular architecture.
For me, St. Louis's architectural showpiece neighborhoods are Soulard, Benton Park, Lafayette Square, McKinley Heights, Fox Park, Shaw, Tower Grove East, Tower Grove South, Benton Park West--these give a real sense of an interconnected, wholly urban place that is entirely distinguished from any other city. I would have thrown Carondelet and the Patch in to that list, but they're their own nucleus.
If Broadway, Jefferson, and Chouteau were transformed into pedestrian-scaled and oriented streets, there would be almost no break in the wonderful density and relatively unaltered urbanism of this large group of neighborhoods. Tear down/submerge/boulevard-ize I-55 and we're really talking.
For me, St. Louis's architectural showpiece neighborhoods are Soulard, Benton Park, Lafayette Square, McKinley Heights, Fox Park, Shaw, Tower Grove East, Tower Grove South, Benton Park West--these give a real sense of an interconnected, wholly urban place that is entirely distinguished from any other city. I would have thrown Carondelet and the Patch in to that list, but they're their own nucleus.
If Broadway, Jefferson, and Chouteau were transformed into pedestrian-scaled and oriented streets, there would be almost no break in the wonderful density and relatively unaltered urbanism of this large group of neighborhoods. Tear down/submerge/boulevard-ize I-55 and we're really talking.
i'd have to say that almost NO other cities have Portland and Westmoreland Place..maybe Philly and New York (what's left). this neighborhood is almost in a class of its own. too bad some were torn down. i always get pissed at the loss of the two at West Pine and Lindell. look at an old postcard.. sad.
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leeharveyawesome wrote:^ Why isn't this guy the Mayor?
He has good ideas.
I made my first trip to Indianapolis this past weekend and you guys were spot on. We stayed downtown and I spent almost all of my time downtown and I had a great time. White River State Park is beautiful and downtown is really active, and eventhough I hate to admit it, far ahead of ours (for now). But we drove around South Indy for a little while, mostly just lost as we tried to burn time between our noon checkout and the 2:00 AAA baseball game, and the neighborhoods are nothing different from a Bloomington or Springfield. Which isn't a bad thing, they're just nothing special.
And it was probably the fact that carrying a camera around waves the tourist flag, but everyone I encountered was extremely friendly.
And it was probably the fact that carrying a camera around waves the tourist flag, but everyone I encountered was extremely friendly.
Shimmy wrote:I made my first trip to Indianapolis this past weekend and you guys were spot on. We stayed downtown and I spent almost all of my time downtown and I had a great time. White River State Park is beautiful and downtown is really active, and eventhough I hate to admit it, far ahead of ours (for now). But we drove around South Indy for a little while, mostly just lost as we tried to burn time between our noon checkout and the 2:00 AAA baseball game, and the neighborhoods are nothing different from a Bloomington or Springfield. Which isn't a bad thing, they're just nothing special.
And it was probably the fact that carrying a camera around waves the tourist flag, but everyone I encountered was extremely friendly.
It also helps that Indianapolis is the state capital.
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JCity wrote:It's absolutely true to say that outside Chicago, no other Midwestern city has neighborhoods like St. Louis.
and it's true to say that NO other city in the midwest, let alone country (outside NY, Philly, Baltimore/DC) that has houses like we do in the West End.
Really? lol
ThreeOneFour wrote:DeBaliviere wrote:I would agree that overall, St. Louis is livelier than Cincinnati - at least from what I've seen and experienced - but just as far as downtowns go, Cincy has the edge IMO.
I agree on both accounts.
Based on? I guess I'm curious what tool or method is being used?
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Cincinnatus wrote:JCity wrote:It's absolutely true to say that outside Chicago, no other Midwestern city has neighborhoods like St. Louis.
and it's true to say that NO other city in the midwest, let alone country (outside NY, Philly, Baltimore/DC) that has houses like we do in the West End.
Really? lol
You're late to the thread, but I think we've already concluded that some people need to get out more.
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Cincinnatus wrote:JCity wrote:
and it's true to say that NO other city in the midwest, let alone country (outside NY, Philly, Baltimore/DC) that has houses like we do in the West End.
Really? lol
You're late to the thread, but I think we've already concluded that some people need to get out more.
Oh ok! lol
If you're not familiar with the city here is a decent photo tour of some of the Cincy hoods...
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index. ... ghborhoods
I'm sure STLgasm and Jive can vouch.
Also, like STL, our neighborhoods have always been our strong suit. This is because of the old extensive streetcar system that ran here ... because of it, it created many NBD's. Downtown does seem the focus of attention. When the Banks is completed, it'll basically create an entirely new neighborhood though.
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I don't know if any historic St. Louis neighborhood has as much unbelievably beautiful fabric left as Cincy's Over-the-Rhine.
I am a sucker for the Italianate row house though, and Over-the-Rhine delivers.
I am a sucker for the Italianate row house though, and Over-the-Rhine delivers.
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^ Absolutely. What would the closest have been? Eastern Mill Creek Valley?
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Grover wrote:^ Absolutely. What would the closest have been? Eastern Mill Creek Valley?
Yes, along with Carr Square and Lucas Place. These neighborhoods would have contained the 1840s-1870s architecture that is sadly mostly missing now. That would have included a lot of more spare Greek Revival but also some Italianate.
Imagine if the Eugene Field House on S. Broadway still had its row...
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The problem, illustrated above, with St. Louis's downtown is an almost wholesale lack of human scale places. I have actually never been to either Cincy or Louisville (
) but rather am an extensive Skyscraperpage long-distance tourist. It is my impression from the photographs I see on SSP and other sites that these downtowns contain attractive, historic, 2-6 story buildings.
The problem, illustrated above, with St. Louis's downtown is an almost wholesale lack of human scale places. I have actually never been to either Cincy or Louisville (
) but rather am an extensive Skyscraperpage long-distance tourist. It is my impression from the photographs I see on SSP and other sites that these downtowns contain attractive, historic, 2-6 story buildings.- 11K
I think what St. Louis is really missing are the 4-5 story buildings that can be found in Over-The-Rhine.
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