urbanSTL

sorry but it looks boring

BarryGlick wrote:sorry but it looks boring

There's like 2 other "districts" like it in Indianapolis already. Gotta wonder how many more they can sustain.

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Was in Indianapolis and was shocked by how similar yet different their downtown felt to STL.

- No homeless or easily discernible crime
- Streets were clean of trash and most buildings have either been renovated or torn down instead of being left to blight.
- Restaurant selection or lack thereof similar to downtown STL
- Probably has just as many dated hotels as downtown STL but a handful of newer ones on top that help them land all of these big events
- Marquee newer office buildings for Rolls Royce and Caterpillar, and a rooftop sign for Sales Force made the City feel a bit more leading edge
- Construction projects and cranes every few blocks, much of it centered on adding more hotels including a Ritz and another convention center hotel

It let like STL could catch up if we were willing to target demo of blighted properties + extensive hotel incentives.

There is A LOT of homeless in downtown Indianapolis, i walked 40 miles around its downtown in 3 days in oct. far more than here 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

3:18 PM - 11 days ago

There is A LOT of homeless in downtown Indianapolis, i walked 40 miles around its downtown in 3 days in oct. far more than here 

What part did you go to? Have yet to see any or signs of any thus far. 

I stayed at the Conrad and pretty much walked every square inch of the place, lot around the soldiers memorial 

dbInSouthCity wrote:I stayed at the Conrad and pretty much walked every square inch of the place, lot around the soldiers memorial 

Sounds like we had the same physical experience but with entirely different takeaways. Might be a seasonal thing or based on convention traffic.

ldai_phs wrote:Was in Indianapolis and was shocked by how similar yet different their downtown felt to STL.

- No homeless or easily discernible crime
- Streets were clean of trash and most buildings have either been renovated or torn down instead of being left to blight.
- Restaurant selection or lack thereof similar to downtown STL
- Probably has just as many dated hotels as downtown STL but a handful of newer ones on top that help them land all of these big events
- Marquee newer office buildings for Rolls Royce and Caterpillar, and a rooftop sign for Sales Force made the City feel a bit more leading edge
- Construction projects and cranes every few blocks, much of it centered on adding more hotels including a Ritz and another convention center hotel

It let like STL could catch up if we were willing to target demo of blighted properties + extensive hotel incentives.

I actually lived in downtown Indy:

-Homelessness definitely exists lol.
-I saw the same amount of crime there as I've seen working downtown for 5 years now, none.
-Restaurant selection has way more chains to choose from, including Buffalo Wild Wings, Five Guys, Stake and Shaek, and Chick fil A.
-Hotel scene is way better than STL, which makes sense being a city that has made a genuine effort to cater to tourists as opposed to residents. They have a Conrad, JW Mariott, just built a Signia in a new skyscraper, and the Ritz is being developed by the Pacers.
-The new office buildings are suburban style hellscapes, one is barely downtown the other is in the suburbs. Salesforce moved in after Chase vacated the tower, not dissimilar to AT&T, except they got a new tenant immediately.

STL also has quite a few hotels in the pipeline, just none are new build whole Indy has 2 new build happening right now. So maybe they aren't as obvious.


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StlAlex wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:Was in Indianapolis and was shocked by how similar yet different their downtown felt to STL.

- No homeless or easily discernible crime
- Streets were clean of trash and most buildings have either been renovated or torn down instead of being left to blight.
- Restaurant selection or lack thereof similar to downtown STL
- Probably has just as many dated hotels as downtown STL but a handful of newer ones on top that help them land all of these big events
- Marquee newer office buildings for Rolls Royce and Caterpillar, and a rooftop sign for Sales Force made the City feel a bit more leading edge
- Construction projects and cranes every few blocks, much of it centered on adding more hotels including a Ritz and another convention center hotel

It let like STL could catch up if we were willing to target demo of blighted properties + extensive hotel incentives.

I actually lived in downtown Indy:

-Homelessness definitely exists lol.
-I saw the same amount of crime there as I've seen working downtown for 5 years now, none.
-Restaurant selection has way more chains to choose from, including Buffalo Wild Wings, Five Guys, Stake and Shaek, and Chick fil A.
-Hotel scene is way better than STL, which makes sense being a city that has made a genuine effort to cater to tourists as opposed to residents. They have a Conrad, JW Mariott, just built a Signia in a new skyscraper, and the Ritz is being developed by the Pacers.
-The new office buildings are suburban style hellscapes, one is barely downtown the other is in the suburbs. Salesforce moved in after Chase vacated the tower, not dissimilar to AT&T, except they got a new tenant immediately.

STL also has quite a few hotels in the pipeline, just none are new build whole Indy has 2 new build happening right now. So maybe they aren't as obvious.


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Appreciate the takes of a local!

ldai_phs wrote:

StlAlex wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:Was in Indianapolis and was shocked by how similar yet different their downtown felt to STL.

- No homeless or easily discernible crime
- Streets were clean of trash and most buildings have either been renovated or torn down instead of being left to blight.
- Restaurant selection or lack thereof similar to downtown STL
- Probably has just as many dated hotels as downtown STL but a handful of newer ones on top that help them land all of these big events
- Marquee newer office buildings for Rolls Royce and Caterpillar, and a rooftop sign for Sales Force made the City feel a bit more leading edge
- Construction projects and cranes every few blocks, much of it centered on adding more hotels including a Ritz and another convention center hotel

It let like STL could catch up if we were willing to target demo of blighted properties + extensive hotel incentives.

I actually lived in downtown Indy:

-Homelessness definitely exists lol.
-I saw the same amount of crime there as I've seen working downtown for 5 years now, none.
-Restaurant selection has way more chains to choose from, including Buffalo Wild Wings, Five Guys, Stake and Shaek, and Chick fil A.
-Hotel scene is way better than STL, which makes sense being a city that has made a genuine effort to cater to tourists as opposed to residents. They have a Conrad, JW Mariott, just built a Signia in a new skyscraper, and the Ritz is being developed by the Pacers.
-The new office buildings are suburban style hellscapes, one is barely downtown the other is in the suburbs. Salesforce moved in after Chase vacated the tower, not dissimilar to AT&T, except they got a new tenant immediately.

STL also has quite a few hotels in the pipeline, just none are new build whole Indy has 2 new build happening right now. So maybe they aren't as obvious.


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Appreciate the takes of a local!

The single thing that upset me the most was how much better Gainbridge Fieldhouse has spurred new development compared to Enterprise Center. Definitely lots to learn in that area for sure. The Ritz doesn't happen without the Pacers helping fianace it.

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And if you wander in their subreddit, the same fear mongering over downtown crime, and well, real crime in downtown Indianapolis and everywhere else.

For all the grace and praise this forum (and others) gives Indianapolis it still deals with very real problems.  I think the success is in the execution of projecting an image of success and getting regional buy-in.

It's also the state capital, so there's that leg up already.

bwcrow1s wrote:And if you wander in their subreddit, the same fear mongering over downtown crime, and well, real crime in downtown Indianapolis and everywhere else.

For all the grace and praise this forum (and others) gives Indianapolis it still deals with very real problems.  I think the success is in the execution of projecting an image of success and getting regional buy-in.

It's also the state capital, so there's that leg up already.

You can't overstate regional buy in. City and county are merged, making voting on tax increaes far easier to pass and more fruitful than in STL, and the convention canter/Lucas Oil complex are funded by a 1% food and beverage tax by Marion and by ring counties, just would be unheard of in STL and a total non-starter.

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Based on my visits, homeless appeared a bigger issue in Downtown core three or four years ago. I think the issue has moved to North Tucker and Cass Ave area. Not a great first impression but they're people and they need to be somewhere. 

StlAlex wrote: ↑

5:53 PM - 11 days ago

bwcrow1s wrote:And if you wander in their subreddit, the same fear mongering over downtown crime, and well, real crime in downtown Indianapolis and everywhere else.

For all the grace and praise this forum (and others) gives Indianapolis it still deals with very real problems.  I think the success is in the execution of projecting an image of success and getting regional buy-in.

It's also the state capital, so there's that leg up already.

You can't overstate regional buy in. City and county are merged, making voting on tax increaes far easier to pass and more fruitful than in STL, and the convention canter/Lucas Oil complex are funded by a 1% food and beverage tax by Marion and by ring counties, just would be unheard of in STL and a total non-starter.

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But my point is that it faces the same crime issues as Downtown St. Louis (some perception perpetuated by local media here of course).  Somehow, it manages to get over it.  At least from a infrastructural gloss/first touch perspective and regional gusto.

Indy isn't really anything special though.  Many roads are still too wide.  It doesn't really feel full or vibrant.  Decent amounts of 'green space' with little purpose.  I'm not sure the infatuation with comparisons/contrasts here in St. Louis.  I will say it has the luxury of not having as many highways bisect it allowing a more fluid urban core, until it's cordoned off by all the highways.  It's at least less strangled than here.  Plus points for being the capital, I imagine the infrastructure dollars are much more free flowing without checking into it.

Unigov is worthy of looking at for inspiration, but again my point being that it hasn't solved some of the perception or real high profile crime issues that impact public perception.  It's a nice talking point as a silver bullet for solving our issues.  Nor has it contributed to a brutally vibrant Downtown Indianapolis, at least in the areas I traversed around the convention center, mass ave areas.

I again comment as someone who isn't an expert on traveling Indy but just.. doesn't feel like it's any sort of world above Downtown St. Louis.  We have all the bones already and attractions that could easily set it above peer Downtowns if we'd just get over ourselves.  Celebrate St. Louis shows that if we can get butts in seats, people have a great time.  We just need to be active in activating Downtown for public events and get people into the streets as a first step.  Showing people can have a great time in an old city is a great first start.

I feel like DT Indy is way ahead of STL and it's not particularly close, and a reason for it is the fact the entire county is bought in on it.

Again for some perspective, you can go to TJ Maxx, Burlington, Buffalo Wild Wings, Weber Grill, Dick's Last Resort, Yard House, Steak and Shake, Chick fil A, Five Guys, Wingstop, and Taco Bell. Even Panera. All right in downtown Indy. It's just a different league.

I'd also argue it has worse crime than STL too. Ive mentioned on here before about like yearly mass shootings that have no affect on the city. There were something like 7 people shot in a shooting right outside Steak and Shake, d*cks Last Resort, and PNC's building (right on my commute route), and it had no effect on those businesses. Yes there's the perception of crime that exists in every city, but Indianapolis does not suffer the same economic consequences of its crime that STL does.

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Their canal walk always makes downtown very clean

We have so much to water and sit on the most iconic river in the US

I understand we can’t have a true riverwalk on the Mississippi but I wish those who came before us or our future planners would have figured out how to redirect some of that water into a water feature downtown (like Chouteau’s Lake)

It enrages me that Indy, San Antonio, OKC, etc have these canal walks with their puny rivers

I hope we can figure out some kind grand civic project that connects us with our river, whether something like Chouteau Lake, reimagined Eads Bridge or completely revamped arch riverfront and north/south riverfront

Otherwise I’m not that jealous of Indy downtown and especially the rest of the city. It really lacks much intrigue or history culturally, but it does have the chains and perception and cleanliness to keep people coming downtown


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Our downtown core is relatively small, as we know. If the CWE, SLU & Cortex were truly considered part of  "downtown" from Kingshighway to the river, we could say we have more than any of those cities. I mean, we are literally talking about 5 miles Arch to Kingshighway. Fill in those gaps & we can eventually have ONE continuous "downtown".